klairsee Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I work in primary care for a hospital system. When I was hired, on call duties were not in the job description. Now, two years later, I’m being told that all primary care APs in the region are going to be added to the telephone call schedule later this year. No additional compensation will be given. We are already being compensated below state average for the specialty, which I have been somewhat okay with before this due to not being required to take call. I’m being told that physicians do this as part of the job without additional pay also. However, call was in their contract when they were hired. Has anyone else experienced this and were you able to negotiate? If so, how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Unfortunately you are in a tough spot and even worse your employer is taking advantage. There are just far too many APPs ready to take your job if you don't sign on for the call - especially in primary care. It is stated clearly in my contract that call is not part of my job description. But, my employer could change their mind pushing a new contract on me. I would have two choices: Accept the call and keep my job Deny taking call, citing my original contract, but likely be terminated and I would be replaced rapidly. In our current job situation it's pretty obvious what I would do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac30 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Any other time I'd say put on your boogie shoes, but right now in light of covid I would do the call. Get your resume in order and start looking for openings just in case something comes up you want 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Yep, welcome to the new normal. Looking for a job in this environment sucks. Most are in survival mode at work until this winds down, which is going to be awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 23, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 23, 2020 I have a different take Organize all the PA's, invite a union in to represent you - and refuse to take call We must stand together on this - Call is an issue that they love to push onto the PA for free - but it should NEVER be free (unless you own the practice). It is a quality of life issue, period. Just say no 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac30 Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 59 minutes ago, ventana said: I have a different take Organize all the PA's, invite a union in to represent you - and refuse to take call We must stand together on this - Call is an issue that they love to push onto the PA for free - but it should NEVER be free (unless you own the practice). It is a quality of life issue, period. Just say no Oh I like that better. Can I change my answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 6 hours ago, tahi193 said: I work in primary care for a hospital system. When I was hired, on call duties were not in the job description. Now, two years later, I’m being told that all primary care APs in the region are going to be added to the telephone call schedule later this year. No additional compensation will be given. We are already being compensated below state average for the specialty, which I have been somewhat okay with before this due to not being required to take call. I’m being told that physicians do this as part of the job without additional pay also. However, call was in their contract when they were hired. Has anyone else experienced this and were you able to negotiate? If so, how? Did you or someone explicitly ask about compensation or did they come out and say you're taking call and there will be no compensation? Just trying to figure out if there's any way you can negotiate this at this point or if it's a demand. "Sure, I'd be happy to do that. Since I'll now be required to make myself available for any and all calls for the office which is in addition to my current contract duties, I'd like to revise the details of my current contract. I'm available to discuss at any time. Please let me know when works best for you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klairsee Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 This is a topic that’s been brought up in passing in the past with our physician leadership and my answer has always been that I will take call for additional pay. I was always told “physicians don’t get paid extra” and it’s “a service to our patients.” I’ve argued that physicians are getting paid for call since it was in their contact, it’s just not itemized as such. I work for such a massive organization (I’m talking one of the biggest) and I don’t even know the name of a person who has any real power. We were purchased a few years ago and are now for-profit. I can only talk with physician leadership who are basically just giving us the message but have no authority to change it. Outside of unionizing, it does seem like there is not choice but to bow down. Nurses are currently trying unionize in our organization but the PAs are not organized at all. I would support a union but I’m not well connected enough (rural medicine, lone PA) to really get that going within the organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 24, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2020 see if you can talk to nurses that are trying to unionize - they can bring PA's into their discussions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Same thing happened to me here.. They are now asking us to take calls from hospital employees with COVID symptoms, and order tests on them during the weekend... uncompensated. I argued about it with supervising MD. Went to HR (which it seems like MD went to HR before me) and HR advised... don't be a baby, and do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 24, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 24, 2020 1 hour ago, ShakaHoo said: Same thing happened to me here.. They are now asking us to take calls from hospital employees with COVID symptoms, and order tests on them during the weekend... uncompensated. I argued about it with supervising MD. Went to HR (which it seems like MD went to HR before me) and HR advised... don't be a baby, and do it. yeah, bull**** Tell them to find someone else - no thanks and just wrong 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klairsee Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 8 hours ago, ShakaHoo said: Same thing happened to me here.. They are now asking us to take calls from hospital employees with COVID symptoms, and order tests on them during the weekend... uncompensated. I argued about it with supervising MD. Went to HR (which it seems like MD went to HR before me) and HR advised... don't be a baby, and do it. That’s really discouraging. It’s incredible that it’s even legal to force us to answer work calls on our personal phones when we’re off duty. I guess they know they have us cornered since changing jobs in this market would be tough to say the least. My company basically has a monopoly on healthcare here. I would definitely have to move in order to find a new job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) It was this way back in the early 80's. Compensation was tied into salary, or so we were told. Every...Monday...night, ugh, oh, and every THIRD weekend. Edited July 25, 2020 by GetMeOuttaThisMess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 13 hours ago, tahi193 said: That’s really discouraging. It’s incredible that it’s even legal to force us to answer work calls on our personal phones when we’re off duty. I guess they know they have us cornered since changing jobs in this market would be tough to say the least. My company basically has a monopoly on healthcare here. I would definitely have to move in order to find a new job. Yeah...probably would request my employer to cover my phone bill if it is required for work. Otherwise I just would magically not have a phone anymore... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfw6er Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 This is why contracts are important. Time off is time off..... everyone both needs and deserves it. Many corporations have enacted policies stating employees are not to check email or use company smart phones after hours or on weekends. Don't let your employer strong-arm you into doing extra work on what little time off you have, especially if you're not reimbursed for it. Work-life balance is worth fighting for. You went to grad school for your degree and profession and you deserve better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakaHoo Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 What HR informed me is I have an "offer letter" not a "contract" and that they can change the terms at any time. 40 hours a week, Monday-Friday 8:00-4:30PM M-FRI "Hours subject to change to best meet the needs of patients and the department." I told them it says nothing abut Saturday/Sunday, they said that is part of "hours subject to change." I asked about working more than 40 hours - They said "You are salaried exempt, some weeks you will work more than 40 hours, some weeks you will work less" (I have never worked less than 40 hours in my life). Very frustrating. Especially with young kids at home, and cutting into my precious free-time with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, ShakaHoo said: What HR informed me is I have an "offer letter" not a "contract" and that they can change the terms at any time. 40 hours a week, Monday-Friday 8:00-4:30PM M-FRI "Hours subject to change to best meet the needs of patients and the department." I told them it says nothing abut Saturday/Sunday, they said that is part of "hours subject to change." I asked about working more than 40 hours - They said "You are salaried exempt, some weeks you will work more than 40 hours, some weeks you will work less" (I have never worked less than 40 hours in my life). Very frustrating. Especially with young kids at home, and cutting into my precious free-time with them. Yep, they've got you. That "exempt" phrase is the killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klairsee Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 I must say I’ve learned many things in the past week. Will never work without a written legal document delineating my duties again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 28, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 28, 2020 On 7/27/2020 at 1:36 PM, ShakaHoo said: What HR informed me is I have an "offer letter" not a "contract" and that they can change the terms at any time. 40 hours a week, Monday-Friday 8:00-4:30PM M-FRI "Hours subject to change to best meet the needs of patients and the department." I told them it says nothing abut Saturday/Sunday, they said that is part of "hours subject to change." I asked about working more than 40 hours - They said "You are salaried exempt, some weeks you will work more than 40 hours, some weeks you will work less" (I have never worked less than 40 hours in my life). Very frustrating. Especially with young kids at home, and cutting into my precious free-time with them. your recourse is to reject the proposed changes - this is in your right, it is called quiting you job..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohiovolffemtp Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Having a written contract hasn't been any protection in my experience. I've worked for 2 of the big EM groups: TeamHealth and Envision who when times were tough for them said: we're giving you new contract terms. You can sign the contract change or we won't schedule you any more. Your only protection is your ability to find a different job that's a better fit. That depends on the job market and your ability to find and move to a new job. This isn't unique to being a PA. Right now, I'm seeing EM docs having exactly the same issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadAssPA Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 On 7/27/2020 at 1:36 PM, ShakaHoo said: What HR informed me is I have an "offer letter" not a "contract" and that they can change the terms at any time. 40 hours a week, Monday-Friday 8:00-4:30PM M-FRI "Hours subject to change to best meet the needs of patients and the department." I told them it says nothing abut Saturday/Sunday, they said that is part of "hours subject to change." I asked about working more than 40 hours - They said "You are salaried exempt, some weeks you will work more than 40 hours, some weeks you will work less" (I have never worked less than 40 hours in my life). Very frustrating. Especially with young kids at home, and cutting into my precious free-time with them. Do you live in Utah? Sounds like you do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) They have us all by the genitals right now....and they know it. I was told by my office manager a while back that if I quit there would be 20 providers standing in line to take my job. Great pep talk. Edited July 29, 2020 by Cideous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVTSPA Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Something similar happened to me years ago. I was told that I would be rounding on weekends and taking first call for minor problems after I worked with the practice for a little while even though when I interviewed I was told I would not. Very frustrating since I had asked before I signed that those details be included in my written agreement (no contracts for us). I was denied the opportunity for such details to be included in my agreement and the hospital certainly didn't care when I expressed my frustrations and asked for more compensation. There was really nothing I could do but change jobs to remedy the matter which is a frustrating situation to be in... Unfortunately, the business of medicine takes advantage of the altruistic nature of most providers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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