BruceBanner Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 My apologies, Bruce, but, I am kind of confused about your response to Rev. How does your reply significantly differ from his? Fair question. It's the wording really. Just coming straight out and saying she was 'fired by a man because she was pregnant' sounds a little less tactful than giving a back story, if asked. If I was a hiring manager and that the first thing a candidate said when I asked about her last job, I'd be a little suspect. Even though it's mostly true it just sounds crazy. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 So basically I've been let go, I am 38 weeks pregnant and my boss has been known to get upset when women get pregnant and go on maternity leave. If this statement is based in fact and you have one or more witnesses that would say so in a deposition you could toast this guy. If this doc is playing with a full deck, there mere threat of being involved in an EEOC investigation should make him want to resolve the situation at any cost. If you resign, I would demand 6 months salary as severance pay to make this go away. Otherwise tell him he can roll the dice. Personally, I am a scorched-earth kind of guy. I would become the hand of karma. My sole focus in life would be making this guy miserable to get out of bed every morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmdpac Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 With regards to future employers being spooked by a potential employee having sued a former boss everything I've read has said to get a new job first then sue your old boss. That way, at least with the new employer, there isn't the whole "I sued my former boss" discussion during the interview. Given the two options presented in the OP, resign or unpaid "remediation", your best bet here is to decline both and make him actually terminate you. If you have witnesses to back you up with regards to these being your only options, resign or remediate, you're golden. Otherwise, if you resign, he can always argue that you did so on your own accord (regardless of the additional circumstances surrounding your leaving). Otherwise, you've received excellent advice and discussion so far. Lawyer up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish1pa Posted May 3, 2017 Author Share Posted May 3, 2017 Option 1. Sit down with him and agree on a equitable resignation situation. i.e. You agree to resign because you are "giving birth soon" and he 100% agrees to give you a positive reference going forward. This sucks for you, but IF you are in a right to work state, chances are you are screwed. The threshold is very low for terminating an employee and there is really no way for you to *prove* he is letting you go because of the pregnancy. "Lawyer up and nail him to the wall" sounds great and feels good, but in reality it rarely works out that way. He has already begun covering himself with the so called "error" he is citing for terminating you. Smart really on his end. Anyway, in this scenario you can both move on and a termination won't be on your record. It will simply be, I had a baby...took time off and am now deciding to go back to work. He will be motivated to give you a positive reference and avoid a messy lawsuit, even one he might win. FYI: The last lawsuit I was involved in with a business partner was very straight forward and it cost me $22,000 is lawyer's fees and never went to trial. We ended up settling. Be prepared to write a big check with no guarantee of winning. Option 2. Go thermonuclear. Lawyer, state board, workers commission....Gloria Allred...etc. The only potential upside to this is a big payout for "discrimination". It's possible, but not likely especially since he is building a case already for termination. It would need to go to trial and there could go either way. VERY expensive even if you could find a lawyer to take the case. You might win back wages and a small settlement as well, but then god help you if you work in a smallish area. Be prepared to move...and I mean states. You will never work again for anyone that hears about the case. Ugly, but we are here to speak the truth to you and not sugar coat it. The medical community is MUCH smaller then we think. Even in DFW I run into PA's, NP's and docs all the time from all other the state who know the same people I know. And with corporations running the deal in many specialties, there are few places to hide even across state lines. So before the blow back starts, I am not trying to be all doom and gloom. However, many people who file these types of lawsuits and then loose will tell you that it was not worth it and they wish someone had told them the reality of our justice system before they paid for their lawyers next Mercedes. That's all I am trying to do, inject a little sober reality. The only question I have for you is....What happened to the baby? This seems like an awful lot of effort on his part if there was a happy outcome. Something tells me there is more to the story here. I appreciate the honesty. The baby is fine. No fever or anything since. The mother of the baby is fine. The mother is a nurse and was more than fine when she was in he office. I know it sounds crazy like there's more to the story but that really how crazy this guy is. One of the other "mistakes" I made was, I saw an 11 year old who weighed 177 pounds. I gave her 10 mL daily of tussionex for cough. According to Epocrates, 11years and younger get a max dose of 5mL per day and 12 and older is 10 mL, because of her excessive weight I gave her the 10. I've confirmed with a pharmacist that this is absolutely acceptable because she weighs 177 lbs. my boss says I overdosed her. And the attorneys I would hire to fight this work on contingency so it shouldn't really cost anything unless we win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 First. Really sorry this happened to you. In your shoe, I will move on. Take your maternity leave & immediately offer your resignation letter. Do this immediately. Fighting back will be a total waste of time. Learn from this and move on. Safe your energy. You're Pregnant & due in a week. Channel all your energy on your pregnancy/delivery and family. Yes. Of course. Talk to a lawyer. But not with the intention to sue your boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 As far as alerting the media, I'm mainly worried about my reputation after this. Obviously this guy deserves it but one attorney I spoke to said that despite the circumstances, it's not exactly a good thing in the eye of future employers that I sued my former boss, right? This whole thing is SO stressful and of course the easier option would be to resign quietly and move on, but then he wins.. You could resign quietly and move on....and YOU could just as likely win. Your next job will be better. But I'm not suggesting you should do that, but rather asking what would it look like for YOU if you WON? Get your job back? I don't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katera Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 I appreciate the honesty. The baby is fine. No fever or anything since. The mother of the baby is fine. The mother is a nurse and was more than fine when she was in he office. I know it sounds crazy like there's more to the story but that really how crazy this guy is. One of the other "mistakes" I made was, I saw an 11 year old who weighed 177 pounds. I gave her 10 mL daily of tussionex for cough. According to Epocrates, 11years and younger get a max dose of 5mL per day and 12 and older is 10 mL, because of her excessive weight I gave her the 10. I've confirmed with a pharmacist that this is absolutely acceptable because she weighs 177 lbs. my boss says I overdosed her. And the attorneys I would hire to fight this work on contingency so it shouldn't really cost anything unless we win. Thanks for elaborating. Wow, I have to agree this guy sounds like a complete jerk. The only other thing I would add is this...if you sue him and win, what will you get? Most private docs have their assets tied up tight. If this was a guy that worked for a large organization with deep pockets, then I would be more inclined to go after them. Even if you win, you might not get much of anything except a blackballed reputation. Dunno, it's a tough one. I do wish you the best of luck and a very heartfelt congrats on the upcoming BeBe! p.s. As far as the Tussionex...that was BS as well on his part, but he is trying to "build a case" supporting termination.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Regardless of what action(s) you choose to take, a consultation with an attorney with experience in similar matters in your state, and preferably in the medical field, is a wise first step. Just remember that they are your legal counsel - they counsel, the decisions are yours - and make sure you consider longer term ramifications of your actions (as others have advised as well). As has already been stated, it's not like you want your job back based on what's transpired. However, I think there's still something no one has specifically mentioned - your REPUTATION as a clinician. And even though he's offered to "let" you resign, based on what's been said, if it were me, I'd want some pretty strong assurances his unfounded claims of malpractice and negligence are withdrawn, die, and stay dead, never to be raised again. Yes, what HR can say to HR is pretty limited, but you can't always stop gossip, and I could see that being a problem with this guy, especially if he thinks he can get away with the pretext he's using to terminate you. In his arrogance, he may think you are easily intimidated and your dependent practitioner status makes you more controllable. It may take nothing more than EEOC or attorney involvement to shut him down quickly, get you severance of some form, and protect you from future libel and/or slander of your professional reputation. e.g., not to give you something else to worry about, but given that he claims he called the malpractice insurer (who said to terminate you based on how he conveyed your care of the patient), could that create a future insurability issue for you? (note: I am a student so I have no first hand knowledge of malpractice insurance, only of E&O and similar coverages) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish1pa Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 All great points. I appreciate the feedback. As for my reputation yes I am definitely a little apprehensive. I'm hoping that if we do move forward, it ends in a settlement and occurs quietly, he may try to tell other health care professionals that he knows about me but he probably has more to lose than me. I've already started the job search so my hope is I find something soon before any damage is done. I come from a family of attorneys though who are not going to take this lying down. Everyone seems to highly believe I'll get a settlement out of it or at least a severance. Obviously I don't want my job back but also to protect other women from him in the future potentially.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ral Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Fair question. It's the wording really. Just coming straight out and saying she was 'fired by a man because she was pregnant' sounds a little less tactful than giving a back story, if asked. If I was a hiring manager and that the first thing a candidate said when I asked about her last job, I'd be a little suspect. Even though it's mostly true it just sounds crazy. Just my opinion. Fair answer. Thank you, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish1pa Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 Oh and get this, you guys will love this... the doc's wife works there too, she an NP... she came in ranting about PAs, how PAs suck, we don't know anything, our training is less superior to NPs they never should have hired a PA and the only reason they did was because they couldn't find an NP good enough. She said this to my coworkers (this was before my termination). Back in February there was a situation where; they took our stools away that we use (me and the other NP don't have an office or a desk, but just a stool to sit on at a counter while charting) and we came in one day to find the stools missing. The office manager told the boss's wife I need a stool or a seat since I'm pregnant and she said "when I was pregnant I didn' need a stool so neither does she". They ended up putting the stools back a couple days later. But real nice right? Both the boss and his wife call people stupid all the time, other providers, patients etc. not to their faces of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vkap Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Yea.... I'm no lawyer, but I think you have a strong case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 One of my cardinal rules is don't work anywhere the spouse/sister/whatever relative is the manager or in some other position of authority and this is why. If something goes sideways you start out outnumbered. This sounds like an awful work place. Get a lawyer. It doesn't sound like people who are going to be reasonable so protect yourself. At least consult one and get advice mostly to protect yourself. It sounds like the best you will do without a long drawn out legal PIA process is to make sure they don't trash you if/when you have to use them for a reference. Simply get them to agree not to release anything except your dates of employment "as a matter of policy". many companies do this anyway to avoid legal hassles over references so it shouldn't raise any red flags. If you are feeling bold and your lawyer agrees.... go full court press and punish them for their bad behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 I appreciate the honesty. The baby is fine. No fever or anything since. The mother of the baby is fine. The mother is a nurse and was more than fine when she was in he office. I know it sounds crazy like there's more to the story but that really how crazy this guy is. One of the other "mistakes" I made was, I saw an 11 year old who weighed 177 pounds. I gave her 10 mL daily of tussionex for cough. According to Epocrates, 11years and younger get a max dose of 5mL per day and 12 and older is 10 mL, because of her excessive weight I gave her the 10. I've confirmed with a pharmacist that this is absolutely acceptable because she weighs 177 lbs. my boss says I overdosed her. And the attorneys I would hire to fight this work on contingency so it shouldn't really cost anything unless we win. The no bills if you don't win can be misleading. You will be billed for depositions, court filling fee,expert witnesses , ect, some attorneys will require an upfront earnest payment most likely up to $5K to take your case. So expect to spend a good hunk of cash . Then again, there's no free lunch and you must ask if yourself, "am I willing to let this doctor get away with how I was treated?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Which is why you should go to your EEOC instead of hiring a lawyer! Have you done that yet? Why not!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish1pa Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 This started as "I was fired for being pregnant" then changed to, "well, I may have made some mistakes, but they weren't that bad!" to "the Doc's wife doesn't like PA's and was out to get me." Wow. What a ride! Yeah. The mistakes I believe were excuses by the doc when pregnancy was the underlying reason. The story about the wife was just to give an idea of the kind of setting I was dealing with and the kind of people they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Just move on. Learn from it. Listen. Pursuing this further. You will lose. Total waste of your time. In the future, don't work for a doc who's wife is an NP or the practice manager. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katera Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Yeah. The mistakes I believe were excuses by the doc when pregnancy was the underlying reason. The story about the wife was just to give an idea of the kind of setting I was dealing with and the kind of people they are The absolute WORST situation is a doc with a wife who works in the clinic. Most of the time the wife is an office manager. It NEVER works out. OMG stay away from those situations. FYI this goes for female docs whose husband "run" the practice. They are just as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Some good points here. I just want to add/reiterate that nothing you've described (the baby, the charting, the obese 11yo) amounts to anything close to negligence. I've gotten an impression from your posts that part of you thinks you might have done something wrong with these cases. That's not true. You should try to remember that, no matter which route you go with the employer. Don't let anyone smell blood in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish1pa Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 So in case anyone's wondering here is what's going on with my situation.: After speaking with a couple employment attorneys, we discovered that we could not make a discrimination claim because the company has less than 15 employees. We decided that we could file a lawsuit but it would take time, money and undue stress and it's not worth it. I told The doctor we should go our separate ways and he agreed to drop my noncompete and write me a good recommendation letter if I agreed to not file for unemployment or do "anything else". He wants to part amicably and as pissed as I am I guess that's the easiest and best way. Just want to move on and start fresh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 So in case anyone's wondering here is what's going on with my situation.: After speaking with a couple employment attorneys, we discovered that we could not make a discrimination claim because the company has less than 15 employees. We decided that we could file a lawsuit but it would take time, money and undue stress and it's not worth it. I told The doctor we should go our separate ways and he agreed to drop my noncompete and write me a good recommendation letter if I agreed to not file for unemployment or do "anything else". He wants to part amicably and as pissed as I am I guess that's the easiest and best way. Just want to move on and start fresh.. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. It's your life, your call, go with what you feel is best for you. I still think you should file for unemployment and not let him take more money out of your pocket !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish1pa Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 I know I'm not really happy about it and that he's basically getting away with it but unemployment where I live is basically pennies and you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get it. I have a couple interviews lined up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marinejiujitsu Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Yeah, a fever isn't something to send a baby to the ER when if it comes back unless it was like 105+. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizzyJ Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Curious, you said "my boss has been known to get upset when women get pregnant or go on maternity leave". Do you have examples of this? Very unfortunate situation for you and hope it all works out. Most important...how is the baby? As in your baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wish1pa Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 Curious, you said "my boss has been known to get upset when women get pregnant or go on maternity leave". Do you have examples of this? Very unfortunate situation for you and hope it all works out. Most important...how is the baby? As in your baby. Thanks... well one of the NPs there had a baby 8 mos before me, she discussed her maternity leave with him but didnt get what they agreed on in writing, when she went on leave he decided to change it and start scheduling patients for her before she was even due to come back and saying things like "she doesnt need 8 weeks off. 4-6 weeks is more than enough", calling her weak for wanting 8 weeks. and just generally being in a sour mood whenever a woman has told him shes pregnant. he used to sing my praises and complimented me weekly and once I told him i was pregnant that basically stopped. He is all about the $$. I was so nervous to tell him I was pregnant and everyone in the office was like "yea you should be.." he was very nice and congrajulatory when I did tell him. And the baby is great! She is 4 weeks old and thriving, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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