caleb_jo Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Below are some thoughts on PA vs NP in quotes. Below includes his thoughts and then my reply in quotes. This sometimes boils my blood from people like him. Thought?? His Response** "Nurse Practitioners are Registered Nurses with advanced degrees at a Masters or Doctorate level, they are independent/autonomous practitioners with diagnostic and prescriptive authority, which allows them to have their own practice with absolutely no Medical Doctor collaboration in many states. NP's belong in two of the most powerful association in the world of healthcare The American Nurses Association and The American Association of Nurse Practitioners. As nurses, they account the most significant number of healthcare professionals, thus giving them an endless amount of expanded roles such as Managers, Directors, Supervisors, Administrators, Professors, etc..... Nurse Practitioners can also have a dual scope of practice and become a Nurse Anesthetist if they wish to expand their role and marketability factor, not to mention, most Ivy League Universities has a Nursing/Nurse Practitioner Program such as Yale, Johns Hopkins, Duke, Emory, Upenn, Vanderbilt, Columbia, NYU, UCLA, University of Miami etc. Furthermore, Nurse Practitioners may choose to work or volunteer for international organizations such as World Health Organization, Unicef, RedCross, Doctors without Borders, and more because their license and title is recognized worldwide whereas, PA's are only recognized in the United States and Canada. Nurse Practitioners have years of real world experience prior to entering their programs and they are less restricted with their scope of practice, in fact, there are currently 21 states that allows them to practice with full independence/autonomy and all 50 states will eventually adapt the same model due to shortage of primary care physicians. Rumor has it that Nurse Practitioners will take over primary care medicine in the near future; hence, the DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice) movement is on the rise. Nurse Practitioners can choose to specialize in many different area of medicine such as, Genetics, Acute Care/Critical Care, Oncology, Psychiatric/Mental Health, Dermatology, Endocrinology, Pulmonary, Cardiovascular, Neurology, Pediatric, Geriatric, Neonatal, Women's Health etc... Some Registered Nurses can go on and expand their education and become Nurse Midwives, Nurse Informatics, and Forensic Nurse, which all three also requires a Master's Degree to practice. PA's are required to re-certify or retake their board exam every 6 years, whereas NP's doesn't have to; additionally, PA's will always be a Medical Doctor ''subordinate'' and may never have a chance of having full autonomy/independence like NP's do. As a matter of fact, while the Nurse Practitioner profession is expanding the PA profession is declining because too many PA's are so unhappy with their roles and restricted scope of practice that they end up going back to medical school and eventually become a Medical Doctor, which is a disaster for all PA's because they need licensed PA's to contribute monetarily for the survival of their profession, not to mention for so many decades they have been debating to change their title from Physician Assistant to Physician Associate with unsuccessful attempts due to lack of support from their own members and lack of fund from the American Association of Physician Assistants; these are validation that the PA profession is very uncertain while NP's continue to make progress and expand their scope of practice beyond any PA could ever dream of. So, to the ones who are confused as to which career is better, it is clear that the NP route will give you a more promising future. Although, i'd like to emphasize that both profession are well respected high-status healthcare team members and make decent amount of compensation. Good-luck and always remember, it's not your destination that really matters but the "journey" that brought you there." **My response** +Jim Astapan lololololol!!! I'm sorry bro! This made me laugh so hard! Do you really believe the words that was spat out of your keyboard. I'd like first to say that I'm replying not to cut down the NP field or glorify the PA field. Both in my opinion are great careers! I know a lot great NP's.. Know a lot of bad ones as well. Same goes for PA's...But bro!.... I've got to point out some misleading information. First, autonomy. Some NPs (I won't say all) will harp on this autonomy thing. They advertise it like its the norm...Sorry to say that it is not. NPs are allowed to practice "autonomously" in 24 out of the 50 states. There is a catch... Almost half of these states require NPs to have some small collaboration with a physician..The other 26 states have to have regular collaboration with a physician...Just like a PA. One other note on that. PA's can actually own their own practice as well... Most states require a physician to own a small percentage of the practice for legal purposes (usually 1-10%) but do not have to be onsite. Secondly, "real world experience. " What exactly does this mean? Do Combat medics, Corpsman, Paramedic's, EMTs, etc, etc really not have real life experience???? Yeah, I think so... and lots of it mostly in a higher echelon of care than a nurse would have in a ward. Most PA schools require a minimum or 2,000 HCE and some require much more than that to be considered competitive. PA schools have become very competitive over the past five years with an average of 1500 applicants with only 50 slots (that's a 3% acceptance rate). You would think that a disgruntled and disappointing career would elicit a much higher acceptance rate wouldn't you? Third, politics. You definitely got this one right. Hit it right on the nail! ANA seems to have the most powerful political swing in today's healthcare system. I fear that your organization will soon step on the toes of the AMA which could be disastrous. But who knows. I have a couple opinions on how the ANA is going about evolving the NP degree. By now, almost all NP programs are changing to DNP programs. This, from your colleagues, has been a major disappointment. The difference of degree does not grant you increased scope, statue, or pay. Just more debt for a piece of paper. On average, NPs still make 10-14k than a PA (excluding CRNAs) with or with a DNP. Fourth, is for recert and areas of practice. PAs recert every 10* years. Recertification is not a suggestion that PA's are unreliable over time. It to ensure that PAs are up to date with the latest and greatest in medicine especially with those PAs that practice in a narrow specialty as cardiology, ENT, Urology, etc. Guess who also takes their board exams over again? Board certified physicians. It is disconcerting to me when a medical profession does not hold their providers accountable for the ever changing world of medicine (and yes outside of CMEs...everyone does this).Fifth: Subordinates... It is true PAs have to have a supervising MD. Most PAs embrace this. It is always nice to have some back up on a difficult case. Like the old saying goes, "two heads are better than one". This is especially true when dealing with patients lives. We work in a collaborative manner. MDs are not breathing down the necks of PAs. They are there for support if need be. Last of all, I would like to quote you for these last couple of messages. " The PA profession is very uncertain while NP's continue to make progress and expand their scope of practice beyond any PA could ever dream of."It is people like you who give the NP field a bad name. It is never ok to disrespect another profession let alone another healthcare profession who's goals should be your goals. PATIENT CARE** But since you started, let me finish. PA's have been voted as the best profession, best master's degree, best job satisfaction for multiple years in Forbes, Glass Ceiling, Business Insider, etc, etc, etc.. PAs practice in all areas of medicine including all subspecialties. PA's put internal cardiac devices, harvest Saphenous veins by themselves in cardiac surgery, assist in all levels of high risk surgeries, treat HIV, cancer, and hospice patients. Our profession continues to grow and expand. We are proud to work along side our physician colleagues for the benefit of our patient, not our ego. I hope you come to respect our profession and prepare to work alongside the healthcare team not as an individual. I'm signing off! ...One last thing..Could you please ask the six BSNs in my class why they chose PA over NP? I'm sure they would like to offer you the same encouragement. Respectfully, From a 9 year Navy Corpsman veteran with "little world experience" Happy Veteran's Day Bro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Link? If you do. I'm sure lot of us here could response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caleb_jo Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 That would awesome! The link is below to the youtube video. The guy's name is Jim Astapan in the comment section. Have a blast! https://youtu.be/6JndbwlBsXg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 When are you posting your own video about the PA profession? Positive information and facts and classy professional presentation are the best promotion and defense. I will go to the video and contemplate a response - after I count to 10 and take a time out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caleb_jo Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 I'd like to point out that the video is not that bad.... Its the jackwagon who replied to the video in the comments.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 This just showed up in my email inbox. Interesting. Not sure about the graphics. It is a start - Opinions???? https://www.aapa.org/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2147486572&utm_source=pacentral_members&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pacentral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 This just showed up in my email inbox. Interesting. Not sure about the graphics. It is a start - Opinions???? https://www.aapa.org/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2147486572&utm_source=pacentral_members&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pacentral Not bad, but I could probably think of myths I'd rather see discussed then the length of a white coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cg02186 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Haha I've went out it with this same you tube comment several weeks ago back and forth. I provided facts and sources but he was hearing none of it. He bashed every comment that was pro PA and made some users say they were now switching their career path (good because if one YouTube comment details your whole plan you weren't cut out to be a PA). He eventually just went to name calling so I just stopped. He wasn't even having a discussion. He has done this in several other videos as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caleb_jo Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Nice!! Yeah this guy is something else. Not all NPs are like this...But the ones who are, go way overboard. I'm not sure if the ANA brainwashes these certain people or what.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigator Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-astapan-rn-lmt-b4005486Guy isn't even an NP. Take it with a grain of salt, move on, and call him if you need a massage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LKPAC Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-astapan-rn-lmt-b4005486 Guy isn't even an NP. Take it with a grain of salt, move on, and call him if you need a massage. So, it looks as though this episode has a "happy ending" after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrsmurf Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The only things I can think of worse than arguing with youtube commentors are stabbing my eyes with a rusty knife or using (fill in the blank) EMR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caleb_jo Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Eh.. Its therapeutic for me after hours of studying and spending thousands of dollars... I guess it reaffirms my decision and to defend it against some guy that doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. To each his own I guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Just be you out there. I was the only PA in my shop for the past year, totally surrounded by NPs lol. Recently they hired 2 PA's and my manager told me it was deliberate because of the quality of work I've done. Don't worry about having to prove anything, just let your work show. Sent from my S5 Active...Like you care... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caleb_jo Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Well said! Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Eh.. Its therapeutic for me after hours of studying and spending thousands of dollars... I guess it reaffirms my decision and to defend it against some guy that doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. To each his own I guess.. There is a difference between educating someone and being petty and it runs the risk of making us look insecure as a profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 We are expanding PAs in my department too in FP/IM. I like to think it is because the 2 of us in our department are showing our stuff. We add one end of this month and an offer has gone out to another. It's exciting!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 We are expanding PAs in my department too in FP/IM. I like to think it is because the 2 of us in our department are showing our stuff. We add one end of this month and an offer has gone out to another. It's exciting!!!!!!I think this helps our case that we are competent providers. Sent from my S5 Active...Like you care... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_pavnp Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Nice!! Yeah this guy is something else. Not all NPs are like this...But the ones who are, go way overboard. I'm not sure if the ANA brainwashes these certain people or what.. I've mentioned this before to much amazing flaming, but be careful of attributing all pro-NP / anti-PA material to "some NP" on the internet. Please cue fkfighter, boats, and pacman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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