How to obtain Patient Care Hours???

[tinylilron]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have recently become interested in the Physician Assistant career. Here is some information about me. I have a BS in Biochemistry, minor in Psychology 3.78 GPA, higher science GPA (maybe 3.9). I graduated in 2007 and since that time I have been involved in research at a University and at the National Institutes of Health as a Research Assistant and Clinical Research Recruiter. I was also just offered a position as a Research Coordinator at the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. Thus, my experience has mostly been research and my interactions with subjects/patients has been research based not clinical.

 

I am interested in getting some clinical experience and working toward my clinical hours for PA school (some schools require 1000-2000 hours). I do not have any EMT or CNA certifications at this time. I also need a steady income to support myself. I was thinking of taking the Research Coordinator position and doing some volunteering at a clinic for underserved populations in my area in the evenings and weekend. Do you think this would count as direct patient care hours? In addition, what are some jobs that one can obtain patient care hours with out a certification as a CNA/EMT?

 

In addition, I think the Ambulance is volunteer in my community. Does that mean that I can become an EMT for free? Are volunteer EMTs volunteering after their job?

 

Please let me know if you have any thoughts, etc. I would greatly appreciate any help. I am also very interested in the PA/MPH dual degree. Are there any experiences that you think could help one get into a degree like that? In addition, I am interested in the National Health Service Corps Scholarship and if you know anything about that I am greatly interested as well.

 

Thank you for all your help.

 

Veronica

[cooltrainer]

This is how CASPA classifies work on it's online form:

 

PATIENT CARE EXPERIENCE

defined as experiences in which the applicant is directly responsible for a patient's care; for example: prescribing medication, performing procedures, directing a course of treatment, working on patients as an active EMT, etc

.OTHER HEALTH CARE EXPERIENCE

defined as roles in which the applicant is working in the health or a health-related field but is not directly responsible for a patient’s care; for example, filling prescriptions, performing clerical work, delivering patient food, cleaning patient rooms, working as “candy-striper,” etc

 

HEALTH CARE SHADOWINGhours spent shadowing (observing) a health care professional

 

RESEARCH research work you performed OUTSIDE of work you received credit for on your academic transcripts

 

AWARDS, HONORS, AND LEADERSHIP List any honors or awards received, and positions of leadership you have held

COMMUNITY SERVICE volunteer work you have done OUTSIDE of the health field

 

OTHER WORK EXPERIENCE j obs you have held OUTSIDE of the health fieldSo, most of the stuff you have been doing is under research.

 

I have also worked at the NIH - but for clinical research and worked semi-directly with patients. You may want to look around for a more clinical research position... the NIH is a huge pool of contacts, so I'd ask around. Since you're already in and have all the paperwork behind you (which is always a joy), I'd definitely ask around to see what you can find. Also, I'd ask to see if you could shadow a PA that works at the NIH. There are actually a ton that are willing to help you out.

 

Also, It is difficult to obtain "direct patient contact" in CASPA terms if you do not have a certificate (from what I've seen anyways). Even if you do work in this "under served" community clinic, you'd have to be directly responsible for patients. Not a lot of clinics are DC/MD/VA are really willing to let you do this. If you do find something, let me know !! haha

 

-- Good luck --

[thinkertdm]

I was a research coordinator at Walter Reed. Depending on what you do, you might be able to use that as HCE. Obviously, time spent filling out paperwork (even signing consent forms) is not HCE, but if you administer questionnaires, assessments, meds, EKG's, those might work.

PM me if you have any questions!

[Just Steve]

Hi there. With the mention of NIH, I am wondering if you are in the Bethesda Maryland area perhaps? As a former volunteer and employee of the fire/ems system there, I feel pretty confident to speak of the programs local to that area.

 

Bethesda Chevy Chase is one of the two primarily volunteer "rescue houses" in Montgomery County. They keep a pretty tight ship, have a lot of pride, and demand a fair bit of commitment out of their volunteers, including fund raising by going door to door. The other rescue house is in Wheaton which is very close to the antithesis of BCC. Outside of those two houses, the rest of the ambulances you see cruising around the county are staffed primarily with paid firefighter/EMT's, despite what the side of the ambulance says ie: "Kensington Fire Department, Volunteer owned/operated". Each little township in Montgomery county at one time operated their own fire department, then in 1987 the county took control of staffing due to the volunteers not being able to staff the units to an acceptable level. You can still volunteer today at those townships and they do appreciate your help but if you don't show, the unit still gets out the door.

 

Your training is paid for by the fire department and is held at the local Public Service Training Academy up off of Shady Grove Road in north Rockville. They have a variety of programs which include weekends, every week day, a couple nights a week...it's really user friendly to fit your schedule. If your schedule is fairly tight and you don't see 20 hours a week in it to dedicate to the BCC crowd, I would recommend volunteering up at Kensington, Rockville, Gaithersburg, or Germantown. I was a Germantown guy myself. Poolesville is also an option but they are about out in the sticks, making commute a pain to get into work at Bethesda.

 

Swing by one of the fire stations, ask about volunteering. Not every fire station has volunteers so if they don't, simply thank them for their time and ask if they could be kind enough to point you in the right direction.

 

On the political front there is friction between the paid guys and the volunteers. That friction is not everywhere but it does exist. Don't be surprised if you feel it at some point. Don't let it bother you and just enjoy the free training. Once you get through training, the individual station will have a check off procedure, then you get to start riding along and if you stick with it, you eventually get to be primary staffing in the front of the ambulance responding to calls as the primary person. The paid guys LOVE volunteers who do that as it frees up the paid person off the ambulance and they get to go ride the fire truck for the night.

 

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

[tinylilron]

I am currently a clinical research coordinator with the NIH. Were you a full time volunteer with the EMS? I want the direct patient care experience but I also need a full time job. What was your experience when you worked with the EMS in MoCo? Rockville EMS seems to have very high standards and asks for a large time commitment. Are there any EMS that are less time consuming so I can also excel at my full time job?

 

Thank you for all your help.

 

Sincerely,

 

Verónica

 

Hi there. With the mention of NIH, I am wondering if you are in the Bethesda Maryland area perhaps? As a former volunteer and employee of the fire/ems system there, I feel pretty confident to speak of the programs local to that area.

 

Bethesda Chevy Chase is one of the two primarily volunteer "rescue houses" in Montgomery County. They keep a pretty tight ship, have a lot of pride, and demand a fair bit of commitment out of their volunteers, including fund raising by going door to door. The other rescue house is in Wheaton which is very close to the antithesis of BCC. Outside of those two houses, the rest of the ambulances you see cruising around the county are staffed primarily with paid firefighter/EMT's, despite what the side of the ambulance says ie: "Kensington Fire Department, Volunteer owned/operated". Each little township in Montgomery county at one time operated their own fire department, then in 1987 the county took control of staffing due to the volunteers not being able to staff the units to an acceptable level. You can still volunteer today at those townships and they do appreciate your help but if you don't show, the unit still gets out the door.

 

Your training is paid for by the fire department and is held at the local Public Service Training Academy up off of Shady Grove Road in north Rockville. They have a variety of programs which include weekends, every week day, a couple nights a week...it's really user friendly to fit your schedule. If your schedule is fairly tight and you don't see 20 hours a week in it to dedicate to the BCC crowd, I would recommend volunteering up at Kensington, Rockville, Gaithersburg, or Germantown. I was a Germantown guy myself. Poolesville is also an option but they are about out in the sticks, making commute a pain to get into work at Bethesda.

 

Swing by one of the fire stations, ask about volunteering. Not every fire station has volunteers so if they don't, simply thank them for their time and ask if they could be kind enough to point you in the right direction.

 

On the political front there is friction between the paid guys and the volunteers. That friction is not everywhere but it does exist. Don't be surprised if you feel it at some point. Don't let it bother you and just enjoy the free training. Once you get through training, the individual station will have a check off procedure, then you get to start riding along and if you stick with it, you eventually get to be primary staffing in the front of the ambulance responding to calls as the primary person. The paid guys LOVE volunteers who do that as it frees up the paid person off the ambulance and they get to go ride the fire truck for the night.

 

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions.

[meatbone1]

Hello All,

I'm currently a FT EMT-B and AEMT student but also looking to obtain HCE. I've been approached by different agencies specifically for a Back Office (MA type duties) and Sleep tech position. Are either better than the other as far getting my HCE until I certify for Advanced EMT?

I've also reached out to my state PA association and have approached several PA mentors to shadow. I have one set up for next month.

 

Thank you!

[tinylilron]

Hey meatbone1,

 

Do you work as a full-time EMT-B? Does it pay okay? Did you have to volunteer as an EMT before you could become a paid employee? I would think that your work as an EMT would count as HCE. Am I wrong?

 

Thank you,

 

Verónica

 

 

Hello All,

I'm currently a FT EMT-B and AEMT student but also looking to obtain HCE. I've been approached by different agencies specifically for a Back Office (MA type duties) and Sleep tech position. Are either better than the other as far getting my HCE until I certify for Advanced EMT?

I've also reached out to my state PA association and have approached several PA mentors to shadow. I have one set up for next month.

 

Thank you!

[meatbone1]

tinylilron,

I'm only an EMT student at the moment but looking for some *paid* HCE. Here in the south EMT-B could pay up to $9 but you'll only be limited to driving. The Advanced could pay more *and* you can do a little more invasive skills. You do not have to volunteer as an EMT before paid, though it might help.

I'm not discrediting the EMT portion but I'm looking for paid $$ now while I'm in school before becoming certified.

[tinylilron]

Are you paying for your classes? How much do they cost for the EMT-B and for the AEMT?

 

Thank you for all your help.

 

Best,

 

Verónica

 

 

tinylilron,

I'm only an EMT student at the moment but looking for some *paid* HCE. Here in the south EMT-B could pay up to $9 but you'll only be limited to driving. The Advanced could pay more *and* you can do a little more invasive skills. You do not have to volunteer as an EMT before paid, though it might help.

I'm not discrediting the EMT portion but I'm looking for paid $$ now while I'm in school before becoming certified.

[Von Hetzenberg]

Tinylilron,

 

You can get your EMT-B, typically, through a local community college. The cost is whatever the school charges for that class, but for me it was, I think, somewhere around $700. Now, if you get a job with a private ambulance company, like many do, it will most likely depend on your resource hospital as to what procedures you can and cannot perform on a patient. This would all be spelled out in your Standing Medical Orders (SMOs) which should be present in your ambulance. Where I work in Chicago we are not limited to just acting as the driver and typically switch off as driver and attendant after each call. You will get your patient care experience though since you will be checking vitals and doing a cursory patient assessment. If you do plan to advance to ALS before PA school, I would suggest Medic school rather than Advanced EMT. There is nothing wrong with being an Advanced EMT, but if you are going to put in the hours you may as well go for the pot of gold. Medic programs here in Illinois are typically nine months long including your ALS and ER rotations. Good luck and just do it!

[tinylilron]

What is a Medic program? How is that different than being an Advanced EMT? I am guessing that Medics get paid a lot more. Is their training a lot more extensive? This is all new to me. I appreciate all your help!

 

Thank you once again.

 

Verónica

 

 

Tinylilron,

 

You can get your EMT-B, typically, through a local community college. The cost is whatever the school charges for that class, but for me it was, I think, somewhere around $700. Now, if you get a job with a private ambulance company, like many do, it will most likely depend on your resource hospital as to what procedures you can and cannot perform on a patient. This would all be spelled out in your Standing Medical Orders (SMOs) which should be present in your ambulance. Where I work in Chicago we are not limited to just acting as the driver and typically switch off as driver and attendant after each call. You will get your patient care experience though since you will be checking vitals and doing a cursory patient assessment. If you do plan to advance to ALS before PA school, I would suggest Medic school rather than Advanced EMT. There is nothing wrong with being an Advanced EMT, but if you are going to put in the hours you may as well go for the pot of gold. Medic programs here in Illinois are typically nine months long including your ALS and ER rotations. Good luck and just do it!

[Von Hetzenberg]

Hi Tinylilron,

 

Sorry, by Medic program I meant Paramedic program or EMT-P. This is a step up from Advanced EMT. You will, though, need to be an EMT-B first before you can test into a Paramedic program. Also keep in mind that Paramedic programs are not free and will cost you a $2000-$3000 unless you work for an ambulance company that will pay for it, but then you typically have to stay with that company for a couple of years or pay them back for the cost of the education. The best thing to do is keep it simple. Check with the PA schools you would be happy to attend and ask what kinds of patient care experience is attractive to them. They may really like EMT experience which could be on an ambulance or as a patient care tech in a hospital ED or they may be fine with volunteering in a hospital ED. Write back if you have any other questions.

[Timon]

Your pay as an EMT-B will vary state to state and by job function / region. In California EMT-B for 911 make minimum wage. For inter facility transport the pay varies in my area between $12-$16 some get incentive bonuses too. ER Tech pay ranges from $12 to $26 an hour depending where your at and additional certifications such as phlebotomy. I took a 1 month class for $870 to get my certification (M-F 4pm to 10pm). There's also a 2 week EMT course in Freemont, Ca that cost nearly $4k all inclusive (food, school, hotel, etc). Working on an ambulance you cannot include you stand by time between calls as hours. Working as an ER Tech you count all your hours.

 

Just throwing this info out there, hope it helps in any way.

[tinylilron]

Thank you Timon! That definitely helped. How do PA schools know how much time you were on call versus on stand by? Do you or your ambulance keep a log in which the PA schools can call to confirm? I am definitely interested in being an ER tech and working in a hospital setting as well. Do you know if hospitals would train you if you wanted to be an ER tech or would you have to pay for your own training? As an ER tech, can you get health care benefits, etc.

 

I am going to be 27 in a couple months and I am single so I would like to be able to support myself as I gain these health care hours and experiences. I also have a strong research (both clinical and pre-clinical background) with a B.S. in Biochemistry and Psychology. I do not know if those will help me get a position where I can gain clinical hours.

 

Thank you so much for all your help.

 

Sincerely,

 

Verónica

 

 

 

Your pay as an EMT-B will vary state to state and by job function / region. In California EMT-B for 911 make minimum wage. For inter facility transport the pay varies in my area between $12-$16 some get incentive bonuses too. ER Tech pay ranges from $12 to $26 an hour depending where your at and additional certifications such as phlebotomy. I took a 1 month class for $870 to get my certification (M-F 4pm to 10pm). There's also a 2 week EMT course in Freemont, Ca that cost nearly $4k all inclusive (food, school, hotel, etc). Working on an ambulance you cannot include you stand by time between calls as hours. Working as an ER Tech you count all your hours.

 

Just throwing this info out there, hope it helps in any way.

[Timon]

How do PA schools know how much time you were on call versus on stand by? You'll log it in according to CASPA and I've seen some schools put a formula for patient care hours on supplemental applications. It's usually honor system and I've heard from various people that if your caught fabricating information on your application it's grounds for removal from the program. So best to be honest when reporting this type of information.Do you or your ambulance keep a log in which the PA schools can call to Never worked on an ambulance however I would suspect your pay check stubs would log your hours or there may be a way to back it out from there.Do you know if hospitals would train you if you wanted to be an ER tech or would you have to pay for your own training? Most EMTs in my area want to be ER Techs in my area so you'll be applying against a big pool of people. I really got lucky to get my spot. There's going to be some on the job training for plaster splints and setting other trays and procedures. As for other certs like ACLS / PALS / Phlebotomy I had to pay for that out of pocket not sure if this is something most hospitals pay for but my employer does offer tuition reembursrment for certain health care related schooling like RT/RN etc.As an ER tech, can you get health care benefits, etc.I have full benifits as an ER Tech at the moment with 401k matching, Health, Vision, Dental and 0.1068 hours of paid time off for every hour I work.

[tinylilron]

Do you think it is generally competitive to be an ER tech or just in your area? What would one need to do to make themselves an ideal candidate to be an ER tech? Do you need to be an EMT for a while before you are an ER tech or just have the training under your belt?

 

Thank you once again for all your help.

 

 

 

How do PA schools know how much time you were on call versus on stand by? You'll log it in according to CASPA and I've seen some schools put a formula for patient care hours on supplemental applications. It's usually honor system and I've heard from various people that if your caught fabricating information on your application it's grounds for removal from the program. So best to be honest when reporting this type of information.Do you or your ambulance keep a log in which the PA schools can call to Never worked on an ambulance however I would suspect your pay check stubs would log your hours or there may be a way to back it out from there.Do you know if hospitals would train you if you wanted to be an ER tech or would you have to pay for your own training? Most EMTs in my area want to be ER Techs in my area so you'll be applying against a big pool of people. I really got lucky to get my spot. There's going to be some on the job training for plaster splints and setting other trays and procedures. As for other certs like ACLS / PALS / Phlebotomy I had to pay for that out of pocket not sure if this is something most hospitals pay for but my employer does offer tuition reembursrment for certain health care related schooling like RT/RN etc.As an ER tech, can you get health care benefits, etc.I have full benifits as an ER Tech at the moment with 401k matching, Health, Vision, Dental and 0.1068 hours of paid time off for every hour I work.

[Timon]

Do you think it is generally competitive to be an ER tech or just in your area? What would one need to do to make themselves an ideal candidate to be an ER tech? Do you need to be an EMT for a while before you are an ER tech or just have the training under your belt?

 

Thank you once again for all your help.

 

It's a great question. I was lucky that I had a connection that gave me a strong recommendation who worked at the hospital and gave me access to speak with the nurse director of the ER. While I was in my interview I told them my desire for advancement in health care along with getting all the certifications one could possibly obtain for the position based on qualifications from various ER Tech job postings.

 

My contact asked the same question to a different ER director and was told usually they'll hire EMTs who regularly transport patients to their hospital. So in a nutshell it's really more about networking and establishing that contact. As for competitiveness, in my area it's very competitive to get an ER Tech job. I have no clue how it may be outside the So Cal area. It may help to get in contact with your local area's hospital and find out first hand and express your interest to be an ER Tech. Maybe volunteering in the ER can help or becoming an orderly (for transporting patients or job that allows you direct access to the ER staff) prior to receiving your EMT certificate.

 

Most job postings have the same requirement in my area, EMT / ACLS / PALS / Phlebotomy / 6 month to 1 year prior experience

[meatbone1]

Verónica,

I apologize for the late reply. My schooling is *FREE* under Pres Obama public service grant. Please check your state for this grant. I know in my program, the funds will run out sometime Feb '13, unless it get extended. I agree somewhat with what Von said, however I do not plan on going to medic school. I'm focused on PA and my plan B would be either RT or BSN/MSN. I have an appreciation of EMS, however you are under medical direction and specific procedures you have to ask before being performed. That's not a responsibility I would like to take. In the end my goals are:

1. Get basic EMT cert (Oct)

2. Obtain Part time HCE

3. get Advanced EMT

4. continue to take pre-req and apply for 2014 PA cycle.

[alght]

I found that Albany Medical College has a list of acceptable HCE. Perhaps this will help.

 

http://www.amc.edu/Academic/PhysicianAssistant/HealthCare.cfm

 

[TABLE=align: center]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD]Corpsman

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Respiratory Therapist

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Patient care associate

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Paramedic

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Radiation technologist

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]OR technician

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]EMT

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Medical technologist

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Pharmacy technician

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]RN

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Medical technician

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]ED volunteer

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]LPN

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Athletic trainer

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Orderly

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Nurse's Aid

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Phlebotomist

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Ophthalmologic technician

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Physician

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Physical therapist

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Dietician

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Veterinarian

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Occupational therapist

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Home health aide

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Psychologist

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Researcher/technician

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Medical office assistant

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR=bgcolor: transparent]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Mental health aide

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]Veterinary technician

[/TD]

[TD=width: 197, bgcolor: #E4D4B4]EKG/Monitor technician

 

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[alght]

I just noticed that physician is on the list. I'd be interested in meeting a physician who is applying to PA school

[alght]

Long Island University also has a list:

 

http://www.liu.edu/Brooklyn/Academics/Schools/SHP/Dept/Physician-Assistant/Graduate-Programs/MS-PAS/ProgReq.aspx

 

— Medical assistant

— Surgical technologist

— Licensed practical or registered nurse

— Dental assistant

— Dental hygienist

— Certified nursing assistant

— Home health aide

— Residential aide

— Emergency medical technician

— Paramedic

— Physical therapist

— Occupational therapist

— Physical therapy assistant

— Physical therapy aide

— Occupational therapy assistant

— Occupational therapy aide

— Respiratory therapist

— Perfusionist

— Electrocardiographic (EKG) technician

— Phlebotomist

— Ophthalmologic technician

— Volunteer work involving direct patient care

— Shadowing a physician, physician assistant or dentist

[Brekker79]

Post deleted--- wrong forum