Cadaver Lab Necessary

[Sushi]

Hi All,

How important is the cadaver lab for PA school? My program mentioned that it does not utilize cadaver labs as much as other programs out there. What will I be missing out on? We have a handful of trips to the cadaver lab but that's it.

[ilovelost]

I think it depends mostly on *you* as an individual and how you like to learn. If you're considering surgery, I imagine it could be helpful. 

 

I had an anatomy lab in undergrad, with student dissections. It was really cool, but definitely time consuming. I think I'd prefer a cadaver lab experience where the dissections are done ahead of time, so more time can be spent exploring and learning from the 3D experience. I didn't find the actual "dissection" part particularly helpful to learn anatomy - I felt like it was a lot of grunt work. But it was awesome to see the differences between the textbook and "real" anatomy - like ridges in liver from ribs, or severe scoliosis and the impact it has on typical lung size. 

 

But to answer your question... as long as you have some exposure I think you'll be fine. Though, I'm not even in PA school yet so what do I know? :p

[gbrothers98]

We had cadaver dissection at my program.

There was time spent logistically that in retrospect could have been directed elsewhere with better effect.

I think cadaver dissection is left over from a thought process decades old that placed sole emphasis on the physical exam and procedures. 

While PE and procedures are still important, there likely needs a reevaluation of how cadaver dissection would actually benefit the student today. 

Having a clinically oriented dissection and expert guided tour would likely benefit more.

Cadaver dissection is expensive and resource intensive. I can honestly say that while at the time I was taking part in it, it was 'cool', in retrospect I probably would have benefitted more from case studies and simulated patient encounters that also included anatomy as an adjunct.

More emphasis on clinical reasoning, pharmaceutical intervention and patient management & interaction would serve better than elbows deep differentiating tendon insertion and origination for example. That is just plain mental masturbation.

I am sure there are surgical PAs whom would disagree with above. But a program has to tread a line between budgets and resources and what it is able to provide it's charges. What may benefit a minority in a class leaves the majority missing out on elements important to their future endeavors.

G Brothers PA-C

[cg02186]

I think it's a huge help in anatomy. We share cadavers with the PT students and they do the actual dissections so during our lab we can go straight in without spending an hour getting the adipose off an artery and what not. We have a PhD Anatomist teaching it so if we need to see something more he can dissect it out. It's working out pretty well so far.

[SHU-CH]

We use prosected cadavers. As was noted above, doing the dissections yourself is a great learning experience but PA school is so time constricted you might find a better use for your time such as learning physiology or the physical examination. 

 

Much of what you will need to know about anatomy will be to make sense of imaging studies, such as identifying structures on CT and MRI images. For whatever reason I have found that students are having an increasingly hard time thinking in three dimensions. I would think a cadaver based course (perhaps supplemented with a good software program) could help alleviate this. 

[medic25]

I think the cadaver experience is a huge plus.  Besides the obvious benefits of learning the anatomy, there are other intangible benefits for somebody entering health care.  Especially as we move away from our students coming in with extensive HCE, this may be the first time they have ever seen or touched a dead human body.  The student has an opportunity to overcome some of the fears of touching a body and cutting into human flesh; it is easier to make that first cut during your surgery rotation if you've already had the experience of doing it on the cadaver.  I think the reality of working around the cadaver also cements the gravity of the profession they are choosing; PA school will be a very different experience from undergrad, and what they need to learn can influence life and death matters.

[PACdan]

As said above, there is a definite "cool" factor to doing the dissection yourself. And more than that, simply touching/cutting/removing structures on a real human body has some intangible benefits. Some students in my class were uncomfortable even being around the cadaver on the first day. Now they are cutting, removing, and handling it with the rest. It definitely reduced their anxiety.

 

Is it make or break for a deeper understanding of anatomy? As time goes on, I don't feel so. It might give you a little leg up on wielding a scalpel or bone saw competently, but I don't think you'll be less of a practitioner if you don't make the cuts yourself.

[rev ronin]

I would have liked virtual cadaver software to augment my real (prosected) cadaver lab.  I would have loved the ability to pull up a section of the body, peel off virtual layers, reposition a virtual camera, zoom in and out.  Even with a 24-hour cadaver lab and living close to campus, we were still expected to not work alone, so there was always some barrier to access.

 

There's definitely something to be said for both anatomy flash cards and real cadaver work.  I hope that virtual cadaver software develops to the point where it is universally affordable and can close the gap between the two.

[roseline86]

I think cadaver lab is a great learning experience. Some people learn best when they see real dissections while others have no problem with just reading it from the text book. In short, it will depend on an individual.

Good luck.

[EMEDPA]

I was very fortunate and got to do both. Great dissection course as an undergrad followed by great didactic course with prosections in PA school.

[tunafish]

We utilize both. Our own dissection and 3D software. Dissection is very cool. If you just look at protected body you would see one variation. if you have 30 cadavers in the lab you can see many cool things, lots of pathology and anatomical variations. 3D soft is useless and as good as Netter's. It is good for theoretical knowledge only. But in an era of head to toe CT in ER for snots and cough and super specialization of providers it became a new norm. I think it is a very good experience philosophically.

[eburkhalter205]

I have highly enjoyed the conversation on this thread.  Some how I was accepted to multiple programs that I am now trying to decide between. When choosing between schools this seems to be one of the major differences in the two top schools. One has a 5:1 cadaver lab ratio, while the other uses the Anatalab(i think that is how it is spelled) tables. There is also close to a 40-50k price in tuition, not to include the difference in cost of living expenses. long question short; should this be a breaking point decision?  

[Student0024]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:42 AM, eburkhalter205 said:

I have highly enjoyed the conversation on this thread.  Some how I was accepted to multiple programs that I am now trying to decide between. When choosing between schools this seems to be one of the major differences in the two top schools. One has a 5:1 cadaver lab ratio, while the other uses the Anatalab(i think that is how it is spelled) tables. There is also close to a 40-50k price in tuition, not to include the difference in cost of living expenses. long question short; should this be a breaking point decision?  

Personally I chose a school that had cadaver lab over one that did not, and now I am in my clinical year (currently in gen surg) and I am very happy that I got to see a person filleted open before I got to surgery. I think it gave me a better understanding of anatomy and made me appreciate the human body (for example: do you know how thick the sciatic nerve is?? it's huge!!). 

However, I do not think it's absolutely necessary. It won't make or break you as a PA. As with all things, if you were to go into a field like surgery, you would eventually learn all of the relevant anatomy anyway.  The schools I was between were all sister campuses so the tuition was the same, and living expenses were very close in price too. 

If I were you - I would not choose a school that is 40-50k more expensive w/ higher cost of living just for cadaver lab.