Your problem with admissions

[LESH]

Congrats on your accomplishments Brian7. Good job! Do you know if the programs that accepted you used a "holistic admission process"? 

http://www.paeaonline.org/index.php?ht=a/GetDocumentAction/i/143580

http://www.paeaonline.org/index.php?ht=d/sp/i/135732/pid/135732

Thanks

LesH

[LESH]

They look at your application in its entirety: community service,  HCE, shadowing, life experience, and then they conduct an interview. The interview is when they find out who you are rather than what you know, and it either seals the deal or nails your coffin shut. It's not rocket science.

It's called holistic admissions. There are a number of programs that do it this way. You will see it mentioned in their admissions materials and on their websites.

[brian7]

I am not sure, but I would assume that was their philosophy. Both schools were very interested in my personal statement and my ability to get my academics back on track. They didn't seem to worried about my lower GPA but were more impressed that I wasn't afraid to talk about it and admit that I wasn't the best student. I've always felt the best way to overcome low GPAs were to tackle them head on not gloss over them in your personal statement or give excuses. If a school turns you down only based on your lower GPA, then that isn't a school I would want to attend. There is a lot more to a student than grades, granted your GPA at least meets minimum requirements.

[greenmood]

Original post sounds like sour grapes, and nothing in subsequent posts makes me think differently.

 

College is what you make of it. Assuming a student at a CC didn't earn that A by mastering the material is ridiculous thinking. Calling your pretend Ivy League student a "genius" with a 2.9 is equally so. Everyone learns (and studies) differently and resenting students who you perceive as having it "easier" may be a natural impulse, but it's one you should learn to recognize and control before you start graduate school.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[EKPA]

struggled to graduate high school but graduates cc with a 4.0? a genius that applies himself, even in an ivy league, that graduates with a 2.9? these situations are not possible any way i think about it.

 

i have a bs and ms in biology fields from a major research university and i took cc courses to re-take some i did poorly in. i went into those classes with a similar mindset about cc as you and i was humbled during those few months. there are a lot of smart and dedicated student in cc.

 

im currently a 1st year student in pa school. my gpa was significantly lower than the average accepted GPA in my class and even lower than their "minimum GPA allowed". fortunately, my school takes into consideration the more recent grades received. even thought my grades had a huge upswing, i think they wouldve glossed over my application if i didn't bug them to death before i applied. i just tried to make sure they remember who i am and remember my face when they see my name and my application. i like to think this made a difference.

[ssmith]

struggled to graduate high school but graduates cc with a 4.0? a genius that applies himself, even in an ivy league, that graduates with a 2.9? these situations are not possible any way i think about it.

 

i have a bs and ms in biology fields from a major research university and i took cc courses to re-take some i did poorly in. i went into those classes with a similar mindset about cc as you and i was humbled during those few months. there are a lot of smart and dedicated student in cc.

 

im currently a 1st year student in pa school. my gpa was significantly lower than the average accepted GPA in my class and even lower than their "minimum GPA allowed". fortunately, my school takes into consideration the more recent grades received. even thought my grades had a huge upswing, i think they wouldve glossed over my application if i didn't bug them to death before i applied. i just tried to make sure they remember who i am and remember my face when they see my name and my application. i like to think this made a difference.

 

 Congratulations on your acceptance! I’m curious, what are some appropriate ways to ‘bug them to death’? What do you think worked for you? What didn’t work?

 

Also, the scenario is obviously embellished, and the problem is more one for ACs (interviewing hollow applicants with high GPAs) than one for applicants (not getting good grades).

 

[dreatx]

Does that really happen? Especially since a large number of people take pre reqs at the local cc.

[dreatx]

The original post is hilarious.

[cm7sus4]

 

This whole thing that someone was developed through a hotter forge going to an Ivy League school just doesn't work for me. If someone gets a 2.9, they didn't master the material, wherever they went. 

 

 

Agreed - a lot of Ivy League schools - a lot of schools in general - inflate grades by curving and adding fluff into the workload, in order to graduate more students with higher grades.  From my own experience, this happens less with upper division sciences coursework.  Although, some UCs in CA grade lab reasearch assisting as an upper division science course with an easy A, for the purpose of raising that all-important GPA for pre-professional students.

[zoopeda]

The notion that Ivy League course material is categorically fluffier than that of other schools is ludicrous. Tell that to a Cornell grad (where stressed students literally jump off cliffs) or an MIT engineer. You can find fluffy classes as well as backbreakers anywhere--from Harvard on down to Bunker Hill Community College.

[RealWayPA]

To second what zoopeda said: I took a few classes at an Ivy League school as part of my post-bacc for PA school. Hardest classes I've ever taken, conceptually borderline impossible to understand a lot of the science concepts, worked my ass off in them. Balanced out by incredibly smart professors who actually wanted to see you succeed (I was surprised by this one). Absolutely no grade inflation whatsoever (in my very limited experience).

[PAGuy55]

Really? Sounds like a whiny rich kid who didn't study hard. Don't bash community colleges. Like others have stated there are good and bad professors at each. Ratemyprofessor is a great tool to know what you're getting into.

[Epangerl]

Pet peeve: when people assume genius-level IQ means a person can't fail in school unless they weren't trying. A MENSA membership doesn't mean a person is focused on their career goals, has great study skills, or is prepared for advanced coursework without a solid understanding of the basics.

 

I was under 18 years old, at a top ten private university known for lacking grade inflation, and I graduated in three years with a 2.96 GPA. I admit I was immature and that I didn't master the material. It was enough to do graduate coursework at a state university. Example - I had gotten a C in an "intro" course at the top ten university (prerequisite calculus, calculus-based physics, and chemistry), which I then TA'd at the state university (no prerequisite). These classes had the exact same name and were taught at completely different levels - but I think this is not due to the school, but due to the individual professors.

 

I am currently completing/updating prerequisites at a community college because that is what my work and family schedule and budget allows. My professors all have PhDs and are far more organized and better at explaining concepts than the ones from the top ten university. I study almost as hard as I did at the top ten university - and maybe I don't need to, but I think you get out what you put in - and now I get A's. I assume it has something to do with improved intuition as to what skills need to be mastered going in to a test, reduced test anxiety, and a better sense of urgency regarding my grades.

 

The bottom line is, I don't buy these generalities. I don't believe that geniuses can't get a 2.9 GPA while trying, I don't believe that top private universities or CCs all have grade inflation, I don't believe that state universities as a whole are less demanding than top private universities (I think many individual professors can be), and I don't believe that community college professors are any less qualified to teach well.  I think the differences in our experiences boil down to trends among professors and students, not generalities that can be made about school type.

[paapp123]

I don't think RealWayPA is a "whiny rich kid." I do agree with him/her to some extent. I've taken classes at both a private and public institution (although I can't speak to community colleges) and definitely found my science classes to be much more difficult during my undergrad at a private institution. However, that being said, by the time I took classes during post-bacc, I definitely approached my coursework differently. The real differences I have seen is how they teach you (I.e, memorization and regurgitation of information vs higher level conceptual understanding). I do agree that it also depends on the reputation of the school itself and professors.

 

But regardless, a "genius" isn't going to have a mediocre GPA.

[paapp123]

And I'm sorry, you can't compare an Ivy League school to a community college -- that's just crazy talk.

[nygirl25]

I have been fortunate enough to attend a college ranked in the top 25 in the nation. I can tell you that I am certainly not attending because I can afford it, but rather because I earned my place there and wanted to challenge myself. However, my gpa is much lower than if I had gone to my local state university or cc. Not that courses at these institutions do not require dedication and a lot of work, but I have taken courses at both a state institution and a cc over the past few summers and I have found it more feasible to succeed in these courses. As was previously stated, my university is limited in the number of individuals who are able to receive a certain grade. The class average is set at a B-. At a top 25 university, this means that about half of the individuals in the class, many of whom were valedictorians or near the top of their class in high school, are getting grades of C+ or lower. I have never faced this issue in CC or a public institution. Although the classes may teach similar material, the grades in these schools are often much higher. At my university, tests are made so it is made almost impossible to do well on them, with averages normally in the 50s or 60s, with the average becoming a B-.

Although it may come off this way, I am genuinely not trying to appear snobby, and I apologize if it does. I just wanted to further make the point that although people in community college, state and private universities may all receive the same course material, their ability to master the material may not be accurately represented in some circumstances while it may in others. 

[DiggySRNA]

Sorry double post.

[DiggySRNA]

I attend a public state university as an undergrad and there are a few graduate students in my genetics, cell bio and microbio class. Same class, same material, same tests...average is 50-60ish. Shall I add this a NCAA III division school LOL?  The A&P department is notorious for failing students (below a C+ is considered a failing grade and they have to retake the class) and students often opt for CC.

 

I have had friends go to a CC to retake it and still fail...which means two things: they have poor study habits and can't grasp the material OR the CC is just as demanding. 

 

I have written 10 page papers just for an English 101, yes 101 class...a 16 page paper for a general ed class, a 7 page paper required for graduation (if you fail, you can't graduate), and lengthy papers for my research methods class. Don't judge a school and its demands by its name. You'd be surprised haha.

 

If you have the grade, you have the grade. If these entrance pre-requisites aren't enough to motivate "Bill" to fix that GPA then he will lack motivation to succeed in PA school. <- reality.

[RealWayPA]

I don't think RealWayPA is a "whiny rich kid." I do agree with him/her to some extent. I've taken classes at both a private and public institution (although I can't speak to community colleges) and definitely found my science classes to be much more difficult during my undergrad at a private institution. However, that being said, by the time I took classes during post-bacc, I definitely approached my coursework differently. The real differences I have seen is how they teach you (I.e, memorization and regurgitation of information vs higher level conceptual understanding). I do agree that it also depends on the reputation of the school itself and professors.

 

But regardless, a "genius" isn't going to have a mediocre GPA.

Thanks for sticking up for me! "Whiny rich kid" isn't necessarily the best descriptor for me. A MUCH more relevant one would be: "PROLIFICALLY UNMOTIVATED undergraduate who discovered medicine at 23 and decided to make something out it, then found out in prereqs that effort and consistency counts for a lot more than intelligence, then found out that yes, there are some people out there who are smarter than me when I took a class at Yale (that was a utterly humbling intellectual experience) and will forever be smarter than me no matter what I do, but frankly, I don't care all that much about other people's intelligence, grades or effort because I've decided that this is the path that I want to pursue and have been more proactive and dedicated to becoming a PA than I've ever been about anything else at any point in my life, to such an extent that I actually have dreams about medicine and working as a PA."

 

A less emotional take on the above descriptor: Science classes SHOULD be hard. I've actually come to be proud of the fact that I've worked harder in the past 4 years of prereqs than I ever did as an undergraduate. Chemistry classes are my nemesis (nemeses? Took 3 years of Latin and still don't know how to decline that one), but I found a way to get B's or better in every chemistry class I took. Reflecting back on the whole process of taking prereqs, I believe I am now of the position that the grade you get in a class is often times a better indicator of potential than one's intelligence.

 

You certainly can't be a complete idiot to take a college level science class, but my experience of the prereqs (especially Organic Chemistry) was that the individuals who did the best in the class weren't necessarily the most intelligent. The students who did the best (I'd include myself in that category) were the ones who found out ways to succeed. I somehow adopted a military analogy: I had to "assault" the course head-on to vanquish it. That meant first getting over my own fear of it, setting very tiny incremental goals, working on them every day, learning from the mistakes I made, and continually pushing forward even when I faced a challenging topic or didn't do as well on a certain concept quiz or test as I wanted to. The importance of being able to replicate that process and mindset in PA school is FAR more valuable to me than a) my own intelligence and b) the school where I took prerequisites.

[RealWayPA]

Just for inspiration sake, I thought I'd share a sentence that I've kept as my mantra for the past 4 (almost 5) years now:

 

"This is what I want to do, this is what I want to do regardless."

 

I mean it.

[EKPA]

 Congratulations on your acceptance! I’m curious, what are some appropriate ways to ‘bug them to death’? What do you think worked for you? What didn’t work?

 

Also, the scenario is obviously embellished, and the problem is more one for ACs (interviewing hollow applicants with high GPAs) than one for applicants (not getting good grades).

 

Thanks! I just e-mailed a bunch of faculty members at different programs and asked them to spare a few minutes out of their busy schedules to meet with me. I didn't get a response from most of those I e-mailed. I met with the few faculty members that responded and asked for advice. I was honest with all of my grades and they gave me a good idea of what I needed to do.

 

I e-mailed these faculty members every few months or so. In the e-mails, I reminded them who I am, and updated them on my progress.

 

I also went to open houses and tried to be active by asking questions.

[Nonlegit]

I know I'm late this and this will probably be buried, but these are my thoughts.

 

I don't know how "hard" my university is compared to others, but compared to my cc classes, it just feels like different ways of playing the game. I have had to work hard at both, and have breezed through classes in both. CC would never allow for lobbying for an extra .5 at the end of the semester (commonplace at the university), but there will be extra credit opportunities galore throughout the course.

 

Just different ways to get ahead.

[Phoenix]

The notion that Ivy League course material is categorically fluffier than that of other schools is ludicrous. Tell that to a Cornell grad (where stressed students literally jump off cliffs) or an MIT engineer. You can find fluffy classes as well as backbreakers anywhere--from Harvard on down to Bunker Hill Community College.

 

You mean the same Cornell that allowed students to delay finals to handle the "stress" they were experiencing from Ferguson? Hahaha!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. The MIT thing is real, though. I had an acquaintance who graduated from MIT and I'm pretty sure she had permanent wiring damage from the stress load. With all that said, you can't judge difficulty based upon a title like community college, state school, or ivy league. Besides, grade inflation is a well-known thing, especially among certain elite schools that want to ensure their students have bright futures after their undergraduate studies.