Choosing Between Schools

[Mac]

Hi all

 

There is a strong chance I will be put into the position of choosing between two schools on opposite sides of the spectrum. One is Drexel University, one of the oldest programs in the country, and the other is a brand new program. 

 

I have assembled a partial list of Pros vs Cons for each program as well as attributes that could fit in either column. How would you choose? What factors do you feel are the most important when choosing a program?

 

Drexel

 

Pros

• PANCE Pass Rate = 97% over the past 3 years
• Access to a more diverse patient population
• Adjacent to Hahnemann University Hospital 
• Well established preceptors and clinical sites
• International mission trip opportunity
• Cheaper Rent (Would be living with my girlfriend)
• Scholarship Opportunities
• Large alumni network

Cons

• Starts in September 2015
• Located in Philadelphia (May have its perks though)

Unknown (Could be a Pro or Con)

• Required to relocate for clinical rotations
• Large class size ~75

 

Inaugural PA Program

 

Pros

• Large, beautiful campus in a somewhat rural location <10 minutes from a city of 250,000
• Starts January 2015 (9 months earlier than Drexel)
• Brand new PA facilities
• Comes without the stresses of living in a large urban area (No traffic to deal with, ample parking, tons of space)
• 13 Clinical specialty rotations
• Already paid a seat deposit

 

Cons

• No PANCE data (Unproven curriculum)
• First class

Unknown

• Clinical rotations all located within an hour drive
• Smaller class size ~35

 

Tuition and relocation costs will be approximately the same

Both provide cadaver labs and emphasize primary care

Same program length (27 months)

 

I would love to hear input from previous Drexel students and those of you who have been part of a program's inaugural class. Any input would be great. Are there any other factors I should consider?

 

 

[mrwhite]

I'm in the same situation.  If you're a competitive applicant chances are you're going to be able to choose between multiple programs, which is great, but then you're left trying to maximize your options.  I think first and foremost if you're able to get tuition paid down by any program, like if you're guaranteed a significant amount of money in any way, I would immediately take that option.  We're all getting the same degree, and ultimately becoming a PA, so paying down debt the fastest is the biggest thing IMO.

 

If you're not a minority or disadvantaged applicant then getting scholarships will be a lot harder.  At that point I think the earlier start date programs (January) become the smartest choice because the faster you get in the faster you get out and start making a PA salary.  And that loss of income you'd incur by waiting the extra 9 months for the later start date programs to begin will be significant in the long run.  Because chances are the money you're making now doesn't compare to your future PA salary.

 

I think the established program versus inaugural debate is interesting because chances are most programs are going to have a good PANCE pass rate.  If you're a decent student in any regard I'm sure you'll be fine on the PANCE.  I would just make sure the program has some weight behind it, does the program have a medical school attached to it?  Does it have resources? Good rotation sites? Etc.  If you care about the school's rank/reputation/name then those are other things to think about.

 

A huge thing you should keep in mind is rotation sites.  An urban area is going to have more opportunities.  And you may get your first job at one of these places if you make a good impression.  So, would you ultimately want to live around the place you went to school?  Because that is where a lot of your future connections are going to be.

 

For me personally, paying down debt trumps all.  If that means getting out of school faster, or going to a lower tuition school, I'll take it.  I'm shooting for Tufts University School of Medicine because they have an incredible program, located in Boston, start in January, and have one of the lowest tuition costs.

 

I'm sure you'll figure out what's right for you.. Good luck!

[EMEDPA]

As a Drexel grad I vote for Drexel over almost anywhere else with maybe 2-3 exceptions nationwide, none of which are new programs.

if you attend ANY new program you are a guinea pig.

do they have good instructors, preceptors, and sites? no one knows. will their students pass PANCE? no one knows. my recommendation is don't be in the first class anywhere if you have other options...

[Mac]

Thank you for the feedback mrwhite and EMEDPA.

 

I think my biggest dilemma is  whether or not I want to gamble and attend a program I think can prepare me well for the PANCE vs waiting 9 months to attend a program I know will. Nine months seems like an eternity to wait. I wish there was an obvious factor to push me towards one or the other (ie. tuition cost).  Drexel seems like the way to go overall, but I can't seem to get past the thought I would be almost done with my didactic year before Drexel even begins.

 

Does school reputation play any role after school?

[UGoLong]

Ignore the 9 month difference in starting time: in 10 years, it will have meant absolutely nothing. 

 

Pick the school you feel most comfortable with, their approach to working with you, your confidence that they will prepare you well, the strength of their clinical rotations, etc.

 

Being accepted to two programs is something many of your fellow applicants would love to have. Make your choice and make one of the other applicants happy by being offered the slot you didn't take.

[EMEDPA]

if you go to a well known school it may help get a first job. Going to hahnemann (now drexel) impressed all the docs at all of my new grad interviews. back in the day it was considered a top 3 pa program as well as a quality med school.

[SHU-CH]

Another thing worth considering is that (in my experience) success in PA school and entering the PA career is almost entirely dependent upon you and your personal effort. A school will not make you pass the PANCE or land your dream job. A school can afford the opportunity to allow you to do these things. It is up to you to make what you can of the opportunity.

 

If you were disciplined, you could probably sit at home and read Cecil or Harrison for a year and pass the PANCE, but this would not make you a good clinician. Go with the program that will give you the best opportunities to see and do things during your clinical experiences. 

[winterallsummer]

1. Do you know anything about living in either of those cities? Where will you be happier living?

 

2. Will one program save you a significant amount of money?

 

3. Are there any red flags to deter you from a program?

[dmdpac]

I, too, went to Drexel. I will be another vote in favor of the established program. As an alumnus, however, I'll admit that there is some bias at play here. Besides, I was happy with my experience at Drexel.

 

 

PANCE Pass Rate = 97% over the past 3 years

 

Pretty solid pass rate, no? I have to agree with the notion that you don't belong in the first class of anything. Drexel is established with a long and reputable history. That should stand for something.

 

 

Access to a more diverse patient population

 

You got that right. This is not a bad thing.

 

 

Adjacent to Hahnemann University Hospital

 

It's a good hospital with a lot of resources. And it's not just adjacent it's practically in the same building.

 

 

Well established preceptors and clinical sites

 

This is true. Most of my clinical sites were within easy commuting distance within the greater Philly metro area. I had two that required a little bit of a drive. Both were set up by the program and had housing available (one with free housing and one I paid a small amount of rent).

 

There is a lot to be said for established clinical sites and preceptors. You'll have senior students as resources for clinical sites and information about those sites which can be a huge help for you when you get to that point.

 

 

International mission trip opportunity

 

My class put together something like this. It wasn't officially sponsored by the program. But the opportunity was there.

 

Cheaper Rent (Would be living with my girlfriend)

Scholarship Opportunities

These are huge. The cheaper you can make things while in school the lower your student loan payback will be.

 

Having outside support is helpful, too. Just please be sure she knows what you're getting into and that you're pretty strong in your relationship. You don't want this to go south in the middle of PA school.

 

 

Large alumni network

 

This is, indeed, a good point. It helped me land a job after I graduated.

 

 

Starts in September 2015

 

So what? You get the summer to play before school starts. Come out early. Head down the shore. Nine months is not a long time.

 

 

Located in Philadelphia (May have its perks though)

 

What's wrong with Philly? Sure, it's dirty. It smells funny. The local accent is unique. But who cares? It's not a bad city and has a lot of perks. There are a lot of things to do. There are a ton of good places to eat. It has one of the largest park systems in the country. There are always things to do, places to go and cheesesteaks to eat.

 

 

Required to relocate for clinical rotations

 

Maybe, maybe not. As I mentioned most of mine were local to the greater metro area. One of the two that required some travel was by my request. Many of my classmates did not have to travel for rotations as all of their clinical sites were local to the city.

 

While there is no guarantee of site location you will be afforded the opportunity to request that you stay local. There are other factors in determining site placement. But if you really don't want or can't travel they can work with you.

[dmdpac]

(Continued from above as I quoted too many times.)

 

Large class size ~75

 

This isn't really as big a deal as you think it might be. Don't let it throw you off. Lectures are generally as a group. They do a lot of smaller break-out sessions in groups of 4-8 for a lot of the nitty-gritty course work (e.g. clinical assessment). Besides, within the first few days of class you'll fall in with a group of people and they'll be your group of friends for the duration of the program. You won't notice the class size after a while.

 

Congrats on having the luxury of a couple different programs from which to choose. I hope this info helps you.

 

All the best in your decision and academic success!

[Mac]

Thank you all for your feedback. It means a lot to hear from a variety of backgrounds/perspectives. Many of you are very active on this forum and I thank you for providing newcomers with an unparalleled resource.

 

Ignore the 9 month difference in starting time: in 10 years, it will have meant absolutely nothing. 

I agree here, but when you have expended so much time and energy into achieving this dream and have set some of life's other incredible moments to side as a result, every day I wait seems too long. In 10 years, I know it will be trivial, but today it seems substantial.

 

 

 

Pick the school you feel most comfortable with, their approach to working with you, your confidence that they will prepare you well, the strength of their clinical rotations, etc.

 Honestly, I felt comfortable at both schools, at least as comfortable as one can get during the interview process. I thought the inaugural program felt a little more intimate since it had half the number of interviewees, but I got a better vibe from the applicants at Drexel. We were also at Drexel all day, so by the end we were all very chatty. I am fairly confident that no matter which program I decide on, they will prepare me well, but I want to come out of school as strong as possible. As far as clinical rotations, I imagine over the course of 41 years that Drexel has carved out some pretty noteworthy rotations, but will those rotations/preceptors be substantially better than those of a new program? Who really knows.

 

Another thing worth considering is that (in my experience) success in PA school and entering the PA career is almost entirely dependent upon you and your personal effort. A school will not make you pass the PANCE or land your dream job. A school can afford the opportunity to allow you to do these things. It is up to you to make what you can of the opportunity.

 

If you were disciplined, you could probably sit at home and read Cecil or Harrison for a year and pass the PANCE, but this would not make you a good clinician. Go with the program that will give you the best opportunities to see and do things during your clinical experiences. 

While personal effort will always play the most important role, it would certainly help to know your school can keep you on track and provide the necessary guidance and tools to prepare you for the PANCE. The only way to really gauge whether or not a school does this well is ultimately the PANCE scores. This data obviously isn't available for a new program, so would I be gambling by attending one, or is it safe to assume every program will provide enough of the basics and the rest is on me? (I shall contemplate this on my Friday and Saturday nights while I read Cecil and Harrison)

 

 

1. Do you know anything about living in either of those cities? Where will you be happier living?

2. Will one program save you a significant amount of money?

3. Are there any red flags to deter you from a program?

 

 

1. I've collectively spent about a month in Philly. I have mixed feelings about it, but only because the crime rates are high. But how dangerous could a library be? I think I would be happy in either.

2. No

3. Nope

[Mac]

Thank you for the individual break down dmdpac. Its nice to hear from those with insider knowledge of Drexel.

 

I feel somewhat ridiculous having this much trouble choosing a program, but with an $80,000 price tag, I want what every student should want; the best experience, training, and opportunities available. Your responses have been very helpful as I look to make an informed decision.

 

I think UGoLong said it best...

 

 

Being accepted to two programs is something many of your fellow applicants would love to have. Make your choice and make one of the other applicants happy by being offered the slot you didn't take.

 

Thank you all for giving back

[whoRyou]

As a Drexel grad I vote for Drexel over almost anywhere else with maybe 2-3 exceptions nationwide, none of which are new programs.

if you attend ANY new program you are a guinea pig.

do they have good instructors, preceptors, and sites? no one knows. will their students pass PANCE? no one knows. my recommendation is don't be in the first class anywhere if you have other options...

I think it would be the same if one is looking for HCE. Don't go into ANY program that is brand new just to gain HCE. (I learned this the hard way. Recently, the HCE program I was looking at didn't have enough applicants so the program didn't make and it has made me recently running around to find something quick (which I have narrowed it down to two)).

[MassPA-C]

I got accepted into multiple programs and had narrowed it down between a new program (that was based in the city I was living in at the academic medical center I had spent 5 years working for) or an established program in what felt like the middle of no where, half-way across the county in a place where my husband could not find work. At the end of the day I picked the established program- you have worked hard to get here, don't take a chance now on not becoming a PA. I had a friend who went to a new program and they did not have their stuff together and she ended up leaving because of poor class quality (and has not be sucessful in getting back into another program given the huge red flag of dropping out once). Having just graduated from the established program I know I made the right choice - the program director (which was what was kind of swaying me towards the new program) left the new program in what would have been my 2nd year and word on the street is the program is having some tough growing pains. PA school is hard- you want to be with people who have done this many times before. Trust me.

[arosswoods]

@Mass PA_C, what was the new program?