brandon862 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Hello everyone, I joined this forum because I am applying to PA schools this cycle, however another issue has come up and I wanted to ask the advice of other healthcare professionals. From October 2010 to May 2013 I was employed at an urgent care that was owned by two docs and one PA. The PA’s wife worked there as our office manager but that did not stop this PA from having a non-discrete affair with one of the medical assistants at our office. He would also allow her to self- medicate with any medications from our clinic. The medications were all non-narcotic but did include nubain, which can have some narcotic like effects. While working at her computer one day I even saw a message from him telling her not to log the medications because he did not want others to see it. I reported this suspicious behavior to his supervising physician and that employee was later fired but no action was taken against the PA. At the time I worked there, my friend was also employed at the same facility. This PA sent her inappropriate text messages (these messages have been lost) and even would come up and put his hand on her shoulder or back. Two PA students that rotated through our clinic also reported some inappropriate comments made by the PA. My friend and I were both scared of losing our first healthcare job and did not report the behavior to anyone outside of the urgent care. I attempted to tell one of the docs about some of the things that were going on but they completely shut me out. Now a year has gone by since either of us has worked at the clinic but another friend of ours has started receiving inappropriate messages from the PA, asking for her to perform a urologic exam on him. I am 100% convinced that this individual is sexually harassing countless medical workers and patients. There were several evenings where he made the staff leave while he was still alone with female patients. Now that he is harassing another friend of mine I really feel the need to intervene in this situation. I feel like this person is abusing his privilege to practice as a PA and instead using his power to manipulate and harass women. I am having a hard time figuring out what to do in this situation and would greatly appreciate any assistance. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.shannon77 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 What State Brandon? You can usually go to the State's Department of Health or whatever organization licensed the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon862 Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share Posted June 20, 2014 Thanks Chris, This happened in Georgia... RT ® here as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris.shannon77 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Brandon, This is a link to file the complaint. I would talk with the others you know that have been harassed and get them to file one too. And if any of them still have text messages, etc. tell them not to get rid of them. http://medicalboard.georgia.gov/how-file-professionals-complaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Let me start by saying sending dirty text messages to colleagues, staff, patients, and students is not appropriate and would never participate in such a thing. If behaving poorly around students and patients that is criminal in my opinion and the individual should be reported to a medical board or academic inst. But if someone is being a not so nice person and looking to have an affair do we really need to report them to a medical board ? where do we draw the line ? I feel like this is an issue for the medical practice and not beyond that. But maybe I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted June 21, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2014 Let me start by saying sending dirty text messages to colleagues, staff, patients, and students is not appropriate and would never participate in such a thing. If behaving poorly around students and patients that is criminal in my opinion and the individual should be reported to a medical board or academic inst. But if someone is being a not so nice person and looking to have an affair do we really need to report them to a medical board ? where do we draw the line ? I feel like this is an issue for the medical practice and not beyond that. But maybe I am wrong. Diverting medications, whether controlled substances or not, is something I think any state board would be very interested in. And anything that constitutes true sexual harassment, particularly of a vulnerable class of people such as employees, students and patients, I think would constitute unethical behavior that a state board would have an unfavorable opinion of and would look into. If what the original poster describes is accurate, this potentially is one of those situations where one day you read a news story entitled "Patient alleges rape by physician's assistant" (I had to add the 's because you know the media would write it like that). Stories like that usually have a well-established prior pattern of unethical behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Caution here folks! Is this an attempt to bring down a PA because you had some personal issues? And why is this relevant when you're no longer an employee at this practice? Zero tolerance for such an unprofessional and unethical conduct. Caution feeding the OP what s/he wants to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon862 Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 This is not an attempt to bring down a PA over personal issues. I believe this is still relevant because I am a direct witness to this behavior taking place in the past. If this new victim should choose to come forward, then I believe I have a duty to share what I experienced. Considering my question unprofessional or unethical is simply baffling. Perhaps if your spouse, friend, family was a patient or employee of his you may feel differently. I have not committed myself to taking any action at all, I was just asking for outside opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will352ns Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Why would you go to a public forum and discuss this? You were able to look up and find this site...so I must gather that you have the ability to look up how to file a complaint with the medical board. Why would you need the opinion of complete strangers especially when (if true) the allegations are so blatantly obvious? Please consider how YOU conduct your business if you are really considering becoming a PA. If the allegations are true...I find it hard to believe that you couldn't think your way around the problem and find the solution as to what you were going to do. I would expect someone who is a PA candidate to be able to figure this out without the help of total strangers. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted June 21, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2014 Why would you go to a public forum and discuss this? You were able to look up and find this site...so I must gather that you have the ability to look up how to file a complaint with the medical board. Why would you need the opinion of complete strangers especially when (if true) the allegations are so blatantly obvious? Please consider how YOU conduct your business if you are really considering becoming a PA. If the allegations are true...I find it hard to believe that you couldn't think your way around the problem and find the solution as to what you were going to do. I would expect someone who is a PA candidate to be able to figure this out with the help of total strangers. Good luck Agreed- admission committees like to see how you approach ethical/legal situations as the one described and your ultimate response to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Perfect situation to discuss in an interview: "Describe a time or situation when you faced an ethical challenge..." GO. While I'm saddened that you've been exposed to such an ugly thing as sexual harassment in the workplace, and even more egregious when it's a professional, I'm kinda glad you had the good sense to know this just isn't right. The practice is absolutely foolish for allowing themselves to continue to be put at risk by this PA. The usual chain of command for a small practice is to report harassment to the manager who functions as HR (usually). Obviously that is a no-go when the PA's wife is the practice manager and chooses to be blind and deaf to the matter. Then going up the chain to the docs and being met with absolute non-response is a dead giveaway that this practice is not going to discipline their own. He must make them a lot of money. They should realize he can lose them a lot of money too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Durn wasn't done. So, the only recourse I see is to make a complaint to the BME. The more people who complain, the more effective. The BME is obligated to investigate and I hope they will go further. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoRyou Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 EEOC's definition Sexual Harassment It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature. Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general. Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex. Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted) The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Brandon: I'm curious, have any of your friends tried just asking him to stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon862 Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Brandon: I'm curious, have any of your friends tried just asking him to stop? Maynard, The first friend did have an exchange with the provider regarding some of his behaviors. I believe that she asked him to respect her personal space. After that took place she was given the worst duties, shifts, hours, and treatment until she eventually decided to quit. This new situation started taking place this past week but I do not believe that she has directly asked him to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatChecko Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 That's pretty textbook hostile work environment type stuff. Sad, but getting the EEOC involved might be a option as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatChecko Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Caution here folks! Is this an attempt to bring down a PA because you had some personal issues? And why is this relevant when you're no longer an employee at this practice? Zero tolerance for such an unprofessional and unethical conduct. Caution feeding the OP what s/he wants to hear. Maybe...but then again, this person handed them the shovel to bury them. I'm surprised its gone this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Maynard, The first friend did have an exchange with the provider regarding some of his behaviors. I believe that she asked him to respect her personal space. After that took place she was given the worst duties, shifts, hours, and treatment until she eventually decided to quit. Then that's retaliation and it's illegal. If I were in your position, I would advise your friend who works there to confront the PA and, if there's any retaliation, to confront the supervisors about it. If they still don't solve the problem then she and your other friend will have an open-and-shut sexual harassment lawsuit (and I guarantee that will fix the problem). If the PA really does have conduct problems when it comes to patients and drug dispensing, then I think it's appropriate to report it to the board. If this is really more about his conduct with female co-workers, then I would let them solve it as they see fit. The law gives them more than enough tools to combat this sort of behavior on their own. The medical board is there to protect patients. There are other governing bodies to address issues involving co-workers. Just my take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon862 Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 Thank you for the advice. I will pass this information along to my friend that is still working at this facility and let her decide how to best handle this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 21, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 21, 2014 be VERY careful with filing complaints to the board - this is the type of thing that stays with you for a life time you are over a year out and it really is not you battle any more - standing up for others is not a good thing to do and it will likely burn you as they might not want to stand up for themselves and not support you in the claim. (seen it happen more then once) Honestly, I think you really have to think long and hard about your situation (and no one here can answer your questions) You choose not to report it when you were there (this would have been the correct time to do so. Now over a year later you are saying maybe you should report it over a friend.... sort of an odd timeline. As a prospective PA you are in a bit of a pickle.... report and maybe be called on it, not report, and maybe be called on it.... I had a friend that had a frivolously report made to the board by a vindictive employer - believe me you never want to do that in any way, but the flip side is you don't want to report things that are not true, as a complaint against you stays with you FOREVER - and you have to report it on every credentialing packet.... not a pretty picture. I don't know the facts, but in your situation I think a polite honest, private discussion with the practice owner, and the physicians is in order. You will have fulfilled your obligation to advise the practice, and at the same time not taken something somewhere you choose not to go when you were and employee. Overall the message is BE VERY CAREFUL WITH MAKING REPORTS TO THE BOM OR OTHER AGENCY, THEY ARE MORE POWERFUL THEN YOU MIGHT REALIZE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon862 Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 ventana, I agree about the timeline and really do not wish for this to become my battle. Based on the advice I have received here I think it will be best for the current employee to attempt to handle this situation internally. Thanks for your advice and words of caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 ^^ smart decision! Because your case was a total BS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon862 Posted June 21, 2014 Author Share Posted June 21, 2014 As a new comer here, I really do not appreciate these types of responses. I hope that there is never a case of professional misconduct that relies on your judgment for resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMD16 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 No punch intended. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Yep... Reporting a Provider to the BOM because they are having a personal affair is IMNSHO... Complete "He-Said/She-Said" kiddie land nonsense... As far as anyone knows... he and his wife COULD be in a open/polyamours relationship. Its really no ones business but theirs. Stay out of other grown folks business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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