Putting the volume of applicants into perspective

[rohirette]

I've read all over that PA programs receive thousands of applications for 50 seats (or similar.) In another thread here, I just read that nationwide, there were over 19,000 applications for 7,000 seats.

 

So... is that 19,000 unique applicants, or 19,000 applications from a lesser number of hopefuls, some of whom may have tried to get into 20 different schools?

 

What percentage of applications are "junk," simply do not meet minimum requirements, or similar? Is this information out there?

 

I fully recognize that it is our job in pre PA land to put up the grades and gain as much HCE as possible, regardless of what others are doing, but I'd sure like to develop a better understanding of the playing field!

[D.C.]

Instead of answering your question, I will make it even more confusing by considering what happens after you graduate. Consider the outlook for the profession according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. 

 

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Healthcare/Physician-assistants.htm

 

If there are about 25,000 new P.A. jobs being created between 2010 and 2020, then how many people are/will be competing for them? What is the projected number of new P.A. school graduates between 2010 and 2020, and what is the projected number of retiring P.A.'s during this period? If we know that, we can calculate roughly how many candidates will be competing for how many positions over the next few years.

 

The profession is growing "much faster than average," according to the BLS, but then, the number of P.A. programs is also growing pretty fast. 

 

In short, the question remains: is this a good investment?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

According to PAEA in 2013, there were about 18,900 unique applications through Caspa. We can't tell how many are through non-caspa. There were about 6,400 matriculants through caspa and non-caspa. The average GPA is 3.49 and average science GPA 3.41. We can't tell what the average applicant stats were.

 

 

[rohirette]

Thank you, Oneal.

[PAtoB]

EMU's new program received more than 700 applicants for 20 spots. About 500-550 of those applications were considered - 150-200 of them were rejected right away cuz they didn't meet EMU's minimum requirements, per a source.

 

Toledo's program, which I believe is taking 45 or so this year, also received more than 700 applications, per an email sent to applicants. 

 

Wayne State University, which takes 48-50, allegedly received a record 700+ applications last year - so many that it changed its 'automatic interview if all minimum requirements met' policy AFTER its application deadline to 'invite-only' interviews because it couldn't handle the crush. Usually WSU would get 400-500, and interview 150 or so (meaning that many applicants applied despite not meeting all of WSU's minimum standards!). Guessing WSU got b/w 500-700 apps this year. 

 

Also, I could offer 4 or 5 anecdotes of applicants I know of who applied despite not meeting the minimum standards for a school, and they somehow think a school will consider a deficit minor enough to still warrant consideration ("I have only one B-, they'll let it slide!", or "I got an A in my 3 credit micro class, so they won't care too much even though it says you need a 4-credit micro class," for example). It makes me think TONS of applicants think like this, wasting lots of money in application fees every year. I know of someone who applied to 6 programs and was rejected by 5 immediately because he didn't check with each program first to see if his quarter-hours class was equivalent to the semester hours requested. ... So, how many applications are fully legit? There might be 20,000 every year, but x percentage of them get thrown out before being considered because they don't meet that schools' stated minimum standards.

[bjl12]

Instead of answering your question, I will make it even more confusing by considering what happens after you graduate. Consider the outlook for the profession according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. 

 

http://www.bls.gov/ooh/Healthcare/Physician-assistants.htm

 

If there are about 25,000 new P.A. jobs being created between 2010 and 2020, then how many people are/will be competing for them? What is the projected number of new P.A. school graduates between 2010 and 2020, and what is the projected number of retiring P.A.'s during this period? If we know that, we can calculate roughly how many candidates will be competing for how many positions over the next few years.

 

The profession is growing "much faster than average," according to the BLS, but then, the number of P.A. programs is also growing pretty fast. 

 

In short, the question remains: is this a good investment?

 

This is somewhat frightening being that I won't even be applying until the 2015 cycle.  It would be a fairly large blow to graduate from PA school (2017) and experience the same employment hurdles most people go through, whether or not they busted their tail to get into and excel in PA school.

 

Does anyone else have information on this subject?

[SHU-CH]

Also, I could offer 4 or 5 anecdotes of applicants I know of who applied despite not meeting the minimum standards for a school, and they somehow think a school will consider a deficit minor enough to still warrant consideration ("I have only one B-, they'll let it slide!", or "I got an A in my 3 credit micro class, so they won't care too much even though it says you need a 4-credit micro class," for example).

 

This situation happens more than you might imagine. Applicants need to be familiar with the admissions requirements for the programs they intend to apply to - they are not as uniform as they are across med schools. All PA schools are required to make public their criteria for admission. Programs have a great deal of freedom in setting admission criteria, but once they are set our accreditation agency expects that we will follow them to the letter of the law.

 

When accreditation agency folks come to a PA program for a site visit, they usually ask to see the files of students who did not successfully complete the program. If they find that students are being admitted without meeting the baseline criteria and then having problems the program would be in hot water.

 

If you have a GPA problem, healthcare experience will not fix that. If a program requires 2000 hours of experience and you have 1500, great letters of recommendation will not fix it. Applicants need to critically appraise their record and address their efforts accordingly.

[SHU-CH]

This is somewhat frightening being that I won't even be applying until the 2015 cycle.  It would be a fairly large blow to graduate from PA school (2017) and experience the same employment hurdles most people go through, whether or not they busted their tail to get into and excel in PA school.

 

Does anyone else have information on this subject?

 

Unfortunately, only time will tell.

 

In theory, with the Affordable Care Act and an aging population there should be a ton of need for the forseeable future. On the downside, we will not have the money to pay for all of this so reimbursements will have to decline (as they have been doing for a while).

[rohirette]

This is actually good news for those of us who are meticulously building our applications!

[greenmood]

This is somewhat frightening being that I won't even be applying until the 2015 cycle. It would be a fairly large blow to graduate from PA school (2017) and experience the same employment hurdles most people go through, whether or not they busted their tail to get into and excel in PA school.

 

Does anyone else have information on this subject?

You would be better off looking at the percentage growth. Those figures describe new, unique positions and as far as I can tell do not account for PAs leaving the workforce.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[cinntsp]

 

If you have a GPA problem, healthcare experience will not fix that. If a program requires 2000 hours of experience and you have 1500, great letters of recommendation will not fix it. Applicants need to critically appraise their record and address their efforts accordingly.

 

However, HCE/GRE/grade trends/etc can certainly help balance out a low GPA.  There are diminishing returns when it comes to improving one's GPA so it's important to strengthen other areas that could push you over that interview offer tipping point.  

[SHU-CH]

However, HCE/GRE/grade trends/etc can certainly help balance out a low GPA.  There are diminishing returns when it comes to improving one's GPA so it's important to strengthen other areas that could push you over that interview offer tipping point.  

 

This is true to a degree.  

 

I was speaking more to the GPA requirement published by each program as their minimum GPA. If a program says they require a 3.0, do not apply if you have a 2.99. If you have a 3.01, then start worrying about all the other things that you can do to "buff" your application.

[PAtoB]

This is true to a degree.  

 

I was speaking more to the GPA requirement published by each program as their minimum GPA. If a program says they require a 3.0, do not apply if you have a 2.99. If you have a 3.01, then start worrying about all the other things that you can do to "buff" your application.

 

That was my MO knowing getting my 2.8 undergrad GPA to a 3.0+ was gonna take at least 50 credits of all As.

[cinntsp]

This is true to a degree.  

 

I was speaking more to the GPA requirement published by each program as their minimum GPA. If a program says they require a 3.0, do not apply if you have a 2.99. If you have a 3.01, then start worrying about all the other things that you can do to "buff" your application.

 

 

I'm glad I didn't follow that sentiment.  N=1, but my sgpa was 3.08 and my cgpa was 3.18.  My program's required GPA was 3.2, unless that was just considered a suggested minimum.  I don't think people should apply with a 2.5 gpa and hope that they'll squeak by that 3.0 requirement somehow, but it's certainly possible to tip the scales(when it's close) with other aspects of one's application.

[EMEDPA]

when I last worked on an admissions committee probably 10% of the apps went straight to the trash because folks didn't pay attention.

if the requirement says min gpa 3.0 and you have a 2.75 : trash can

if the requirement says must take microbiology and you didn't: trash can

if the requirement says min hce 2000 hrs and you have 750: trash can

 

don't waste your time and money and the time of adcoms applying to places you don't meet requirements for. read and follow directions.

[SHU-CH]

when I last worked on an admissions committee probably 10% of the apps went straight to the trash because folks didn't pay attention.

if the requirement says min gpa 3.0 and you have a 2.75 : trash can

if the requirement says must take microbiology and you didn't: trash can

if the requirement says min hce 2000 hrs and you have 750: trash can

 

don't waste your time and money and the time of adcoms applying to places you don't meet requirements for. read and follow directions.

 

We operate on a system similar to that described by EMED. There may be programs who do not, but they do so at their peril.

 

Look at your credentials, look at the pre-reqs for a bunch of programs, find the best fit, and go for it.

[Z PA-C]

This is a really interesting thread. I always wondered of the applicant pool how many students just applied without meeting minimum programs prerequisites. 10% is actually lower than I thought it would be.