Introduction

[tunafish]

I was wondering if anyone faced a situation like this: you are a PhD becoming a PA. How would you introduce yourself? What would you write on your white coat? I wouldn't want to confuse patients or "offend" MDs, but...

[Houstonian]

The appropriate title on your white coat would be "Tunafish, PA-S" or "Tunafish, PA-C" or possibly "Tunafish, Ph. D., PA-C".

The Ph.D. degree is irrelevant in the clinical setting.

 

You should NEVER introduce yourself as a doctor in the clinical setting...unless you are an MD.

 

Just say, "I'm John Tunafish. I am a PA (or Physician Assistant) with this practice. "

[nhpilot]

The appropriate title on your white coat would be "Tunafish, PA-S" or "Tunafish, PA-C" or possibly "Tunafish, Ph. D., PA-C".

The Ph.D. degree is irrelevant in the clinical setting.

 

You should NEVER introduce yourself as a doctor in the clinical setting...unless you are an MD.

 

Just say, "I'm John Tunafish. I am a PA (or Physician Assistant) with this practice. "

 

Exactly...I have never understood the confusion over this. This has really gotten out of hand due to NPs. You can argue however you want that a Ph.D. is a "real" doctorate, while an MD is a "trade" doctorate, (yes I have heard this very argument), but in a medical setting, the term "Doctor" is understood to be a medical doctor, whether it is MD or DO. And quite frankly, (and it is just my opinion), anyone who uses their title out of their work environment has an ego problem. While Ph.D. should be reserved to a clinical or collegiate setting, in my experience professors who insist on using in "Dr" are laughed at by their colleagues.

 

As far as NPs and their weird insistence on being called "Doctor" is just ridiculous (again in my opinion). For one, no matter how they may insist that their DNP is a clinical degree, it isn't and never will be. How many online MD programs are their? The only reasons they insist on "Doctor" is part ego, and part because they really think that they are equal to MDs. But no matter what, NPs, nor PAs for that matter, are equal to physicians, thus the honorific should be reserved for those physicians.

 

Can you tell this subject pushes my buttons...?....lol

[tunafish]

thanks for your opinions. It would be never an issue in a patient care setting, I believe that a physician that comes to a room saying Hello, I'm Dr. Smith IS an arrogant *******. I was talking more about the professional setting, how would you address your correspondence, your badge at conferences etc

[cbrsmurf]

In an academic setting (not an academic hospital), it would be proper form to address anyone with a doctorate, whether it be astrophysicist, DNP, metaphysics, as "doctor."

[Guest Paula]

thanks for your opinions. It would be never an issue in a patient care setting, I believe that a physician that comes to a room saying Hello, I'm Dr. Smith IS an arrogant *******. I was talking more about the professional setting, how would you address your correspondence, your badge at conferences etc

 

huh? Why would you think a physician who introduces him/herself as Dr. Smith is arrogant? Patients should know who is seeing them.

[physasst]

thanks for your opinions. It would be never an issue in a patient care setting, I believe that a physician that comes to a room saying Hello, I'm Dr. Smith IS an arrogant *******. I was talking more about the professional setting, how would you address your correspondence, your badge at conferences etc

 

I agree with you! Physicians can be pretty arrogant with that. I never use the title "doctor". As far as correspondence, clinically, it's just my name, PA-C....I get introduced at research meetings, and often get meeting invitations, research correspondence, and emails addressed to "Dr. Halasy", although it still sounds weird. My name badge at meetings has my doctorate on there, but I have never introduced myself as such.

 

I only used it once ever in patient care. Had a grumpy patient who was not happy about seeing a PA....never mind that I function as a specialist, and EVERY patient I see is referred, and every patient is told that they will be seeing a PA, and is that okay. This patient proceeded to grumble the entire visit, and then finally, looked at their spouse, and said...."I'm not even seeing a doctor".....I had had enough, and said...."well sorry to disappoint you, but you are seeing a doctor, just not a physician".....I rescheduled them to see one of the physicians.

 

I also used it once with a prick of a surgeon.....I saw him in one of the film rooms, where I was reviewing some images for a study..I rarely call ANY of the physicians I work with Doctor unless its in front of patients, in which case I always do, but as this rarely occurs, I usually encounter them in work rooms, lounges, hallways, etc. I believe that being on a first name basis increases collegiality, and improves mutual respect.....SO, I saw him and said, "Oh hey, how are you ********!" He got really pissed, and snapped back "That's DR. *******!!!".....I simply said, "oh, well, then it's DR. Halasy to you too"....he stood up and stormed out.....one of the nurses said, "I cannot believe you just said that to him"... I was like "why, I don't work for him, he could have been polite, he could have said, "I prefer this", but he didn't...he chose...a different path." Bottom line is I do not have the time or patience to put up with that BS....

[EMEDPA]

I'm 1/2 way to a doctorate and like my friends Dr. Halasy sand Dr. Knappy I won't ever introduce myself as Dr. emedpa in a clinical setting....lecturing/writing articles, etc sure. but in the hospital I'm "emedpa, one of the PAs here tonight". (I never say assistant).

[ventana]

The appropriate title on your white coat would be "Tunafish, PA-S" or "Tunafish, PA-C" or possibly "Tunafish, Ph. D., PA-C".

The Ph.D. degree is irrelevant in the clinical setting.

 

You should NEVER introduce yourself as a doctor in the clinical setting...unless you are an MD.

 

Just say, "I'm John Tunafish. I am a PA (or Physician Assistant) with this practice. "

 

 

 

I used to think just this

 

But - looking forward I am not sure that is true - All the following professions call themselves doctor in the clinical setting (and likely more fields will go to a clinical doctorate - ie OT, SLP) psychologist, DNP, DPT, OD, any PhD, DMD.......

 

 

At this time I simply have not made up my mind..... Physicians do not "own" the term "doctor" and many other allied health fields are moving to this degree level - and if you look at the fact we refer to them, it is strange to think that a midlevel assistant (god I dislike those terms) is not somehow equal to an OR, PT or DNP...... Course some of this would get solved with taking the word Assistant out of our name to get rid of the confusion......

 

Now lets get rid of assistant - make "collaboration agreeements" for PA in primary care, allow direct billing, and reimburse at 100% for primary care services.........

[TWR]

Don't forget all audiologists are now "Dr." as well as graduating pharmacists.

[ventana]

Don't forget all audiologists are now "Dr." as well as graduating pharmacists.

my point exactly....

[Boatswain2PA]

Sorry...maybe it's just my age, but if ANYBODY refers to themselves as "Doctor" so and so in a clinical setting I will put them in a place of clearly defining what kind of doctor they are. "Are you a REAL Doctor...or are you a Doctor like Doctor Pepper??".

 

And if a PhD, PharmD, DNP, Dhsc, AuD, or anybody else demands that I call them "Doctor", then I will tell them they must call me "Master Master" since those are the degree's I hold.

 

If you're not a physician, then don't confuse the patients, staff, or anyone else. If you want to throw about the term "Doctor" in clinical settings, do the pre-requisites, go to medical school, do a residency, and EARN it.

[physasst]

I'm 1/2 way to a doctorate and like my friends Dr. Halasy sand Dr. Knappy I won't ever introduce myself as Dr. emedpa in a clinical setting....lecturing/writing articles, etc sure. but in the hospital I'm "emedpa, one of the PAs here tonight". (I never say assistant).

 

Here's an example from today....

 

06-Aug-2013

 

Dear Dr Halasy:

 

Thank you for your submission to Journal of Interprofessional Care (JIC). Your manuscript entitled.......

 

and one from yesterday..

 

08/05/2013

 

Dear Dr. Halasy,

 

Your submission entitled

 

It still just sounds weird to me.

 

Mike

[cbrsmurf]

Here's an example from today....

 

06-Aug-2013

 

Dear Dr Halasy:

 

Thank you for your submission to Journal of Interprofessional Care (JIC). Your manuscript entitled.......

 

and one from yesterday..

 

08/05/2013

 

Dear Dr. Halasy,

 

Your submission entitled

 

It still just sounds weird to me.

 

Mike

 

Your article titles are refreshingly casual

[physasst]

Your article titles are refreshingly casual

 

 

Yes, they are....as they haven't been accepted yet....:)

[EMEDPA]

I won't have any problem with getting introduced outside of the clinical environment as Dr. Emedpa after I am done with the doctorate . Dr. Knappy has offered me the opportunity to give lectures at his program and I know he is going to introduce me that way. If someone has a doctorate and they are an expert in their field they should be afforded that respect. I will probably lecture mostly in the fields of global health and emergency medicine and after over 1/4 of a century working in em and 12 years of post high school eduction I'm ok with any respect a school wants to throw my way. would also be ok with "professor" but will have my students outside of the lecture hall call me by my first name.

[jwells78]

I believe that a physician that comes to a room saying Hello, I'm Dr. Smith IS an arrogant *******.

Well, that's just absurd. And absurd is my politically correct term for stupid. This is still medicine, and joe blow civilian still wants to know who is treating him. A physician introducing himself as "Doctor so and so" has earned the right to do so. And though I would respect the education level of a Doctorate PA or NP or Audiologist, any assumption by that person to believe they should be referred to as "Doctor" in the clinical setting is simply ridiculous. So we have come full circle back to the whole "Wanna be a doctor, go to medical school..." argument. I have no problem introducing myself as Jeremy, physician assistant. Most patients in my area understand what a PA is, and have been treated well by them. Let the public impression rest upon your deeds and not the length or loftiness of your title. My two cents anyway. J

[EMEDPA]

I have an MD friend who always has to introduce herself as Dr. X or folks think she is a nurse. still happens all the time even though she has the ID tag, long white coat, etc.

she says:

Hi, I'm Dr. lawrence, one of the emergency doctors here. what can I do for you today?

and they say" well, nurse I've been having this chest pain...."

that after using doctor twice in the introduction. some folks just don't get it.

ditto what happens to me:

Hi, I'm emedpa, one of the PAs here tonight. what can I do for you?

"well ,doctor..."

I give up.

guys with beards are doctors, women are nurses. it's cultural...

[physasst]

I have an MD friend who always has to introduce herself as Dr. X or folks think she is a nurse. still happens all the time even though she has the ID tag, long white coat, etc.

she says:

Hi, I'm Dr. lawrence, one of the emergency doctors here. what can I do for you today?

and they say" well, nurse I've been having this chest pain...."

that after using doctor twice in the introduction. some folks just don't get it.

ditto what happens to me:

Hi, I'm emedpa, one of the PAs here tonight. what can I do for you?

"well ,doctor..."

I give up.

guys with beards are doctors, women are nurses. it's cultural...

 

 

HA, I knew a doctor once, orthopedist, who booked his hotel room under "doctor".....we checked in at a conference together, and I looked at him when they said that...I was like "really?" He got defensive and tried to laugh it off. I just chuckled......Wow....Like whoever is working the desk at the Hilton gives one rats *** if you are a Doctor or not. Likely, they will just think you are a pompous jerk.

 

Not only that, you are likely making yourself a target. Hotel cleaning personnel are not known to be the most upstanding members of society. If they know a doctor is in the room, they may be more likely to try and find a credit card slip, or god knows what.

 

I also know one doctor who is an anesthesiologist who goes out of her way to NOT let anyone know she is a doctor. Never uses it in introductions, and gets her medical care at another institution where "no one knows she is a doctor".....She thinks they try and change care, and that it will get screwed up instead of better.

[whoRyou]

HA, I knew a doctor once, orthopedist, who booked his hotel room under "doctor".....we checked in at a conference together, and I looked at him when they said that...I was like "really?" He got defensive and tried to laugh it off. I just chuckled......Wow....Like whoever is working the desk at the Hilton gives one rats *** if you are a Doctor or not. Likely, they will just think you are a pompous jerk.

Perhaps he was thinking if he said he was a 'doctor' he would get a discount. So maybe he is cheap. Whatever the case may be it rubs me the wrong way.

[tunafish]

Well, that's just absurd. And absurd is my politically correct term for stupid. This is still medicine, and joe blow civilian still wants to know who is treating him. A physician introducing himself as "Doctor so and so" has earned the right to do so. And though I would respect the education level of a Doctorate PA or NP or Audiologist, any assumption by that person to believe they should be referred to as "Doctor" in the clinical setting is simply ridiculous. So we have come full circle back to the whole "Wanna be a doctor, go to medical school..." argument. I have no problem introducing myself as Jeremy, physician assistant. Most patients in my area understand what a PA is, and have been treated well by them. Let the public impression rest upon your deeds and not the length or loftiness of your title. My two cents anyway. J

And the other Dr, of course, just had his diploma handed to him for a cute smile. Do you feel strange we succumb to this idiocy? For example to get PhD in physics could take upto 7 years of very hard work and I would argue a much more difficult than to get a MD. Now we here agree that a PhD should "shy" away from his title, God forbid a physician would be in the area. And those dudes sign their checks and book their tee time as "Joe Shmoe, MD".

After posting this, I surprisingly met 2 PAs who had Dr of Public health. Both state XXXX XXXX, PA-C, DrPH on the white coat. I guess that answers the question.

[physasst]

And the other Dr, of course, just had his diploma handed to him for a cute smile. Do you feel strange we succumb to this idiocy? For example to get PhD in physics could take upto 7 years of very hard work and I would argue a much more difficult than to get a MD. Now we here agree that a PhD should "shy" away from his title, God forbid a physician would be in the area. And those dudes sign their checks and book their tee time as "Joe Shmoe, MD".

After posting this, I surprisingly met 2 PAs who had Dr of Public health. Both state XXXX XXXX, PA-C, DrPH on the white coat. I guess that answers the question.

 

And that PhD in physics comes AFTER a Masters degree. So, really, 9 years of post graduate work. What's interesting, at least anecdotally, is many of my friends are MD/PhD's, and I've asked them just from a perspective of curiosity, which was harder? Out of around 20, only one tried to be diplomatic and said they were about equal...NONE of them...not one, said the MD was harder, and most of them scoffed at the question, before definitively stating that the PhD was harder....just an interesting anecdotal footnote is all.

[nhpilot]

I agree with you! Physicians can be pretty arrogant with that. I never use the title "doctor". As far as correspondence, clinically, it's just my name, PA-C....I get introduced at research meetings, and often get meeting invitations, research correspondence, and emails addressed to "Dr. Halasy", although it still sounds weird. My name badge at meetings has my doctorate on there, but I have never introduced myself as such.

 

I only used it once ever in patient care. Had a grumpy patient who was not happy about seeing a PA....never mind that I function as a specialist, and EVERY patient I see is referred, and every patient is told that they will be seeing a PA, and is that okay. This patient proceeded to grumble the entire visit, and then finally, looked at their spouse, and said...."I'm not even seeing a doctor".....I had had enough, and said...."well sorry to disappoint you, but you are seeing a doctor, just not a physician".....I rescheduled them to see one of the physicians.

 

I also used it once with a prick of a surgeon.....I saw him in one of the film rooms, where I was reviewing some images for a study..I rarely call ANY of the physicians I work with Doctor unless its in front of patients, in which case I always do, but as this rarely occurs, I usually encounter them in work rooms, lounges, hallways, etc. I believe that being on a first name basis increases collegiality, and improves mutual respect.....SO, I saw him and said, "Oh hey, how are you ********!" He got really pissed, and snapped back "That's DR. *******!!!".....I simply said, "oh, well, then it's DR. Halasy to you too"....he stood up and stormed out.....one of the nurses said, "I cannot believe you just said that to him"... I was like "why, I don't work for him, he could have been polite, he could have said, "I prefer this", but he didn't...he chose...a different path." Bottom line is I do not have the time or patience to put up with that BS....

 

Physasst said it best....

[edwinjvazquez]

plus the average PhD post-doc works 60+hrs a week. My boss/mentor is an MD/PhD says PhD was harder. My wife is also MD/PhD says PhD was harder.