Do you give back?

[nhpilot]

I am a pre-PA student applying this cycle. I have over 26000 HCE (mostly in the OR) and have worked with many PAs (years ago in the Navy).

Application - No problem.

LORs - Easy.

Grades and transcripts - Pfffff...no sweat.

Personal statement - Worst thing was cutting it down below the word limit.

 

Worse part of the application process? - Finding a PA to shadow.

 

I have reached out to NUMEROUS PAs asking them to allow me to shadow. Those that have bothered to reply so far have ALL refused due to time constraints, just not interested, or saying their practice, hospital, or organization did not allow it.

 

I live in NH, which you may or may not know is pretty rural, with only one medical school in the state, but with an abundance of NPs and PAs. However, it seems that every time I visit my FP, there is a prospective med student or NP student shadowing.

 

Following this forum, I do not seem to be alone with this problem, so my question to practicing PAs.....

 

Do you give back to the profession and reach out to those who would like to follow in your footsteps and do everything you can to allow the hopeful to shadow you?

 

Thanks!

[MedicinePower]

Where in NH are you? Brigham & Women's Hospital in Boston accepts pre-PAs to shadow for a total of 8 hours. I have done one ED shift shadowing one of their PAs and it was amazing. The only downside is they have a policy against writing LORs which is a bummer. Send me a PM and I'll forward you the email address of their PA coordinator.

[nhpilot]

Where in NH are you? Brigham & Women's Hospital in Boston accepts pre-PAs to shadow for a total of 8 hours. I have done one ED shift shadowing one of their PAs and it was amazing. The only downside is they have a policy against writing LORs which is a bummer. Send me a PM and I'll forward you the email address of their PA coordinator.

 

I'm in Southern NH, only about an hour or so from Boston. It IS a bummer about the LORs and also the fact it's only 8 hours, but beggars can't be choosers I suppose!...I'll shoot you a PM.

 

I would like to hear from current PAs. Not to offer me a shadowing position....but just to get an idea of how many volunteer to help out future students by reaching out and letting it be known that you are willing to be shadowed. And if you can't, why not....I really am curious!

[Avalon]

nhpilot,

 

I just accepted a student for shadowing who is making her application to PA programs for admission in May, 2014. She will be with us for approximately 8 hour days, once per week, for as long as it works well for all of us. I'm very happy to have been able to offer her this opportunity, but I needed the full cooperation of my SP, my resident colleague, and my entire office staff. Since everyone likes to teach (especially my excellent SP), I was able to secure their agreement. I am in a solo practitioner, family medicine setting in rural southeastern Pennsylvania, and my student is commuting from a neighboring state. There were many potential obstacles to overcome, so perhaps this answers some of your questions as to why shadowing opportunities are challenging to find.

[EMEDPA]

it used to be much easier to have someone shadow but with hippa, hospital regs, etc it has become much more difficult.

also I have a problem with folks only knowing about PAs by shadowing for 8 hrs....the whole concept of pa education revolves around extensive prior work in health care, preferably with PAs. The concept of shadowing a pa didn't even exist 20 yrs ago because everyone had adequate hce before applying. I had zero shadowing hrs and 5 yrs of almost daily exposure to PAs as an er tech before 5 yrs as a paramedic.

[nhpilot]

nhpilot,

 

I just accepted a student for shadowing who is making her application to PA programs for admission in May, 2014. She will be with us for approximately 8 hour days, once per week, for as long as it works well for all of us. I'm very happy to have been able to offer her this opportunity, but I needed the full cooperation of my SP, my resident colleague, and my entire office staff. Since everyone likes to teach (especially my excellent SP), I was able to secure their agreement. I am in a solo practitioner, family medicine setting in rural southeastern Pennsylvania, and my student is commuting from a neighboring state. There were many potential obstacles to overcome, so perhaps this answers some of your questions as to why shadowing opportunities are challenging to find.

 

Oh I absolutely understand about the obstacles and that they are not due to the PAs themselves. I am just kinda surprised by the fact that when I contact programs requiring shadowing hours, they have absolutely no clue on how to GET shadowing hours.....I assumed (and we know what happens when we do THAT) that they would have a list of PAs that would allow shadowing....naive I know now. Their responses were pretty much, "We don't know how you can get the hours, but you need them."

[nhpilot]

it used to be much easier to have someone shadow but with hippa, hospital regs, etc it has become much more difficult.

also I have a problem with folks only knowing about PAs by shadowing for 8 hrs....the whole concept of pa education revolves around extensive prior work in health care, preferably with PAs. The concept of shadowing a pa didn't even exist 20 yrs ago because everyone had adequate hce before applying. I had zero shadowing hrs and 5 yrs of almost daily exposure to PAs as an er tech before 5 yrs as a paramedic.

 

That pretty much describes my situation....I have over 26000/hrs HCE and worked with many PAs. But the PA contact was years ago in the Navy, so I have no way of getting letters, and in my time in the OR as a civilian, I just did not come in contact with any PAs. So I am familiar and knowledgeable about what a PA does. My number one program choice only requires 20 HOURS of shadowing....basically less than 3 days worth....but absolutely refuses to waive the req. I understand rules are rules though, and I have no problem with that....just continue to seek out PAs....

[UGoLong]

I have a fair number of shadowers. Right now, I have three and they share my days. I see inpatients and outpatients and, frankly, just take the students with me wherever I go. (It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission!)

 

Once upon a time, we all started there and we owe it to the next generation.

[Acebecker]

I take prospective PA students for shadowing experience.

[nhpilot]

I have a fair number of shadowers. Right now, I have three and they share my days. I see inpatients and outpatients and, frankly, just take the students with me wherever I go. (It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission!)

 

Once upon a time, we all started there and we owe it to the next generation.

 

Words I always live by!!!

 

Thank you so much for helping us wannabes the way you do!

 

BTW...as someone who will be 50 in less than a year, your book was inspirational and a Godsend, so thank you for that too!

[nhpilot]

I take prospective PA students for shadowing experience.

 

For all of us prospective students, allow me to sincerely thank you!

[bgdog]

I have reached out to NUMEROUS PAs asking them to allow me to shadow. Those that have bothered to reply so far have ALL refused due to time constraints,

Thanks!

 

By this I'm assuming you have e-mailed or mailed something.

 

Which is the problem.

 

Hard to sell something by mail.

 

You have to put on you Sunday best and go make connections. All the ERs, Clinics, Urgent Cares, Family Practice, etc.

 

Walk right in and explain your plight, ask, ask ask.

 

Everybody likes someone who is a go-getter.

 

I have never had a problem finding preceptors, rotations, etc.

 

Your local medical universe is typically pretty small.

 

Connections. Friends. That's how you get jobs too.

[EMEDPA]

also try free clinics that use PAs. they generally aren't as uptight as hospitals and let folks just hang out. I have pa students and prospective students with me at the local free clinic on a fairly regular basis. I just show up for a shift and they are there.

[Guest Paula]

I will be precepting my first PA student in August for a six week family medicine/rural care rotation. I have not had anyone ask to shadow me, but we have had plenty of students come to shadow the clinic MD. One of the students that shadowed him for about 4 weeks (he was already accepted into a PA program but was still not sure if he wanted PA or MD) ended up declining his spot in the PA school and decided to apply to Med school. I think one of the reasons he decided to go MD route was that we had a long talk PA vs MD. I explained advantages/disadvantages of both routes and since he was young (25) , unencumbered with a girlfriend/wife/kids/pets, he decided to go MD. I did not hear if he got accepted yet into med school.

 

Shadowing can be a good thing for that very reason........leave a spot open in the PA schools for those who really want and know the PA profession is for them.

[68W2PA]

I had great luck finding shadowing opportunities through the VA system. I was able to spend a full day with every department and a full week with orthopedic surgery. All the PAs, residents,and attending were very generous with their time.

 

Another option would be to contact a National Guard or Reserve medical unit in your state to shadow their PAs. They are also generous with their time and focused on training future PAs.

[whoRyou]

I have a fair number of shadowers. Right now, I have three and they share my days. I see inpatients and outpatients and, frankly, just take the students with me wherever I go. (It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission!)

 

Once upon a time, we all started there and we owe it to the next generation.

Words of wisdom right there ladies and gents. Sometimes we’re so focused on where we’re going that we forget to think about where we came from and the people who made us who are now. We need to be mindful and respectful of the fact that we are a process and we are still in development. WE ALL need to feel things that aren’t easy and tackle things that are bigger than us. WE ALL need uncertainty—to know what it is to hurt and to be lonely, or we’ll never know how lucky we are when we make it through to the other side. I am so ready to be on the other side to be a Physician Assistant. “The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. Because the brick walls are there to stop the people who don’t want it badly enough. They’re there to stop the other people.”

― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture If this does not make you humble nothing will --->

[SocialMedicine]

in the past year I have spoken and even met with at least 4-5 pre PA's top give advice. Several emailed me a number of times after the first meeting. I am happy to do this. I have not even entertained the idea of having someone shadow me. It is challenging not only for me from a patient care and liability perspective. BUT it is difficult for my patients and practice to accomdate someone. I do not think you should be phrasing this issue as why are people not giving ... rather investigate what is wrong with the state of shadowing.

[physasst]

Well, the term...."Do you give back" is rather general. I think most who know me, even if they disagree with me, will agree that I have given much back to the profession. Including lobbying, working with Congressional committees, serving on AAPA committees, advising PA organizations, writing on important topics, sitting on several boards of advisers (Okay, I am paid rather well to do ONE of them, but the other 3 are done for free).....serving on PA research panels, etc.etc.etc.

 

I also serve as faculty for attending physicians (on research), teach residents and fellows, etc.etc.etc.etc.

 

Do I allow potential PA students to shadow me? I would, except my institution has a rather difficult time with this, and my department chair is as well. I also have some concerns...primarily because my panel includes both domestic and international patients who may have, shall we say influence, and there is a very real concern about HIPAA. I have done it occasionally however. The institution DOES permit it, but it is a real PITA as there are HIPAA classes....many forms, HR checks, etc.

[Bohuntr]

In my present situation, no. Will I in the future? Yes.

 

I never officially shadowed PA's, being an Army medic and working overseas I worked with them daily and knew what they did. My biggest surprise was when I quit working for the military and government and realized that I had been sheltered from female PA's. Until 2003 when a wife's friend attended PA school, I had gone 20 years without ever meeting a female PA. All my assignments were male only and mainly high threat areas. What a culture shock for me.... My class at PA school only had 3 men out of 35 students. They were very impressive.

 

But back to giving back, yes I will starting this fall. I think it's very important for prospective PA's to see the difference between physicians and physician assistants. Too many people I meet think we are the same as physicians or little more than medical assistants. Teaching prospective Pa's the difference will allow us to reach more of the public via their decision to attend PA school and tell people how it's different from medical school and the services we provide.

 

If you want this field to expand and increase the positive experience people have with PA's, you need to properly educate the next generation. Don't let the government and their bureaucracy combined with edicts on high from Obamacare be the first experience people have with PA's; if a patients first experience with a physician assistant is dictated top down from a government agency, their opinion is likely to be one of "I couldn't get a physician, so I ended up with a physician assistant" and I truly believe they will have pre-conceived notions of inadequacy due to the governments history of using the cheapest methods available to spread mediocrity. Considering the roles that PA's (and Nurse Practitioners to be completely fair) fill in medicine, the profession deserves so much more...

[nhpilot]

That's part of what I don't understand...the shadowing requirement of some programs...It just doesn't make sense to me. Of my top two programs, one doesn't require shadowing and the other requires a whole 20 hours. The program that requires the shadowing has told me they have no idea how to get the shadowing.

 

I worked with PAs also in the military as a Navy Corpsman, and when I asked the program if the shadowing requirement could be waived, it was a flat no.

 

So, many programs require shadowing, of which I have my doubts as to the requirements efficacy, yet due to schedules, patients, hippa, etc., it is increasingly difficult to fulfill this requirement.

 

Personally, I would rather see HCE requirements increased, and the shadowing dropped, but that's just me.

[Guest Paula]

That's part of what I don't understand...the shadowing requirement of some programs...It just doesn't make sense to me. Of my top two programs, one doesn't require shadowing and the other requires a whole 20 hours. The program that requires the shadowing has told me they have no idea how to get the shadowing.

 

I worked with PAs also in the military as a Navy Corpsman, and when I asked the program if the shadowing requirement could be waived, it was a flat no.

 

So, many programs require shadowing, of which I have my doubts as to the requirements efficacy, yet due to schedules, patients, hippa, etc., it is increasingly difficult to fulfill this requirement.

 

Personally, I would rather see HCE requirements increased, and the shadowing dropped, but that's just me.

 

Can your experience with the Navy PAs be counted as shadowing? It seems silly that the schools wouldn't accept that experience. HCE requirements are important, more so than shadowing.

[MediMike]

Have you contacted your local state society? http://www.nh-spa.org/ I had a lot of luck after contacting WAPA, they sent out a member wide email and I got a huge number of responses to allow for shadowing, had to do a bit of traveling but it was well worth it. After being in EMS for the past 10 years I have had many students shadow me, and I can agree with many of the posters on here that yes, it definitely can be a PIA, but at the same time I see it as kind of a responsibility to our profession. I also had no qualms asking the shadowers to "sit this one out" or in the more difficult cases to simply head home.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Not sure if you have tried http://www.pashadowonline.com. It has a list of people willing to shadow. Sometimes the list is old though. I found several in NH

[whoRyou]

Not sure if you have tried www.pashadowonline.com. It has a list of people willing to shadow. Sometimes the list is old though. I found several in NH

FYI, Oneal and others I live in Houston and we have The Texas Medical Center which is the largest medical center in the world ... and we also have M.D. Anderson Foundation which is the largest charitable fund hospital ever created in Texas and yet surprisingly Houston is not even listed on there.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

FYI, Oneal and others I live in Houston and we have The Texas Medical Center which is the largest medical center in the world ... and we also have M.D. Anderson Foundation which is the largest charitable fund hospital ever created in Texas and yet surprisingly Houston is not even listed on there.

 

Guess no PA from there signed up on the site. It's all voluntary, so if no one signs up then it won't be listed.