New PA Program Admits only SF 18D Medics

[EMEDPA]

I think the point of this program in addition to helping vets is to insure an applicant pool with considerable prior medical experience.

if you built a class out of paramedics who had worked 911 systems in busy metro areas you would end up with a similar group of folks. not having been a military medic I would still imagine there is a lot of overlap in the skill sets of a NYC medic and a military medic for example with a little give and take both ways(the military medic is probably better at trauma and the civilian 911 medic is probably better at medical emergencies such as stemi's, sepsis, etc which you don't see much in a military setting dealing mostly with healthy young men.)

[68W2PA]

I don't have any issues with this program. I just don't understand the hoopla. We already have a stellar "free" PA program in the service (IPAP) the 18Ds can go to. There are also quite a few PA programs that give preference to vets and those with military backgrounds. In my neck of the woods we already have MEDEX and Pacific University. It is not like there wasn't resources out there already catering to these individuals.

[MediMike]

I think the point of this program in addition to helping vets is to insure an applicant pool with considerable prior medical experience.

if you built a class out of paramedics who had worked 911 systems in busy metro areas you would end up with a similar group of folks. not having been a military medic I would still imagine there is a lot of overlap in the skill sets of a NYC medic and a military medic for example with a little give and take both ways(the military medic is probably better at trauma and the civilian 911 medic is probably better at medical emergencies such as stemi's, sepsis, etc which you don't see much in a military setting dealing mostly with healthy young men.)

 

I can totally agree with you here regarding this. Having been exposed to a couple PJs and 18Ds over my years, I have seen this type of difference in knowledge. We'd be talking medicine, and if I got onto the topic of ECG/12leads various medical emergencies etc. I would hold the upper hand, but once it went the other way to austere trauma management or abx treatment I got beat down haha. Definitely room for both groups to learn!

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

this may sound naïve but can you consistently fill a class with qualified persons from such a small group ? There are ALOT Of great medics ... but how many of them want to be and can become good PA's ? I have no idea the answer to this question. It would be a disservice to the profession if they started pumping out unqualified people. And no just because you pass a PA Program and NCCPA does not mean you are all that qualified. I just hope this is not some sort of money maker where the university does this to get some sort of special funding and healthcare suffers. A lot of PA schools increasing numbers these days when they DO NOT have the capacity for it just to increase tuition dollars. This is not my opinion it is well known.

 

I'm having trouble imaging an alot made of medics...

 

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

 

/hijack over

[EMEDPA]

I'm having trouble imaging an alot made of medics...

 

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

 

/hijack over

 

nice. I do type with just two fingers....alot...:)

(can "alot" be used as an insult? "he's like that, alot"...I guess it depends how you feel abut alots...)

[bradtPA]

I don't have any issues with this program. I just don't understand the hoopla. We already have a stellar "free" PA program in the service (IPAP) the 18Ds can go to. There are also quite a few PA programs that give preference to vets and those with military backgrounds. In my neck of the woods we already have MEDEX and Pacific University. It is not like there wasn't resources out there already catering to these individuals.

 

Vets can't go to IPAP.

[68W2PA]

Vets can't go to IPAP.

 

True. But 18Ds can easily attend the program while in the service before they ETS. Even if they don't want to be Regular Army, they can still attend as a Reservist or in the Guard. It is an option that has been around for decades that helps utilize their acquired skills to transition them into PA positions.

 

Like I said, there are plenty of other programs receiving grants to educate service members and programs with veteran preferences.

[Just Steve]

Part of the hoopla over this program, in my eyes, is a civilian school saying "you, in the camo...yeah you. We want you in our civilian school because we recognize your mad skillzzz."

 

This is a HUGE GIGANTIC leap over the years of schools (not just PA schools but civilian training in general) saying "oh, your experience is nice, but your training doesn't transfer to the civilian world and we are going to treat you like it is your first day." Speaking as a vet with ten years of experience, it was frustrating.

 

The first thought I had when I read Medex's web page was "well I'll be, they made me a PA program". I actually felt grateful for a program to recognize what I have been through and done. Now the PA education has two civilian schools out of 170+ who have overtly said to Vets "Come apply here please, we will treat you in manner reflective of your experience"

 

It may be an elitist attitude but Vets of the military medical arena are operating on a different level of their civilian counterparts. It is awesome to finally see some recognition of that.

[d2305]

18D and IDC used to be a prerequisite for Army and Navy PA programs, but now a welder can go to IPAP. When I was in IDC school the PA Program was sh!tcanned (real navy term). Brought back to live by VADM Zimble.

[Dan Barry]

True. But 18Ds can easily attend the program while in the service before they ETS. Even if they don't want to be Regular Army, they can still attend as a Reservist or in the Guard. It is an option that has been around for decades that helps utilize their acquired skills to transition them into PA positions.

 

Like I said, there are plenty of other programs receiving grants to educate service members and programs with veteran preferences.

 

While I'm not an 18D and have never been to IPAP, I don't think applying is quite as easy as you make it sound. Because there are relatively lengthy service obligations which are incurred (4 years active/6 years reserve), it might not be the best option for many folks. It should also be considered that in order to retire with a commission it must be held for 10 years, which could seem pretty daunting for someone who is burned out by frequent deployments over the past decade.

[primadonna22274]

18D and IDC used to be a prerequisite for Army and Navy PA programs, but now a welder can go to IPAP. When I was in IDC school the PA Program was sh!tcanned (real navy term). Brought back to live by VADM Zimble.

 

OMG I had the shock of my life when I worked ED last Christmas break with one of our brand-new PAs. She was an IPAP grad. Very unimpressive knowledge base and I was shocked to learn she had been a COSMETOLOGIST before IPAP. I didn't even know the army had cosmetologists!! I hope my recall is incorrect but it was definitely something very unrelated to medicine by a long stretch. Made me wonder if IPAP is no longer what it once was. She did have 20 yr or so prior military experience. She is currently on deployment and I really hope she learns a whole lot in the field!

[bradtPA]

True. But 18Ds can easily attend the program while in the service before they ETS. Even if they don't want to be Regular Army, they can still attend as a Reservist or in the Guard. It is an option that has been around for decades that helps utilize their acquired skills to transition them into PA positions.

 

Like I said, there are plenty of other programs receiving grants to educate service members and programs with veteran preferences.

 

Spoken like someone who has never worn a uniform to understand. Not every 18D wants to serve 20 years. Not every 18D is going to be allowed to go to IPAP. Not every 18D has the ability to commit to 10 more years active duty in order to retire as an officer after becoming a PA. A common tactic in the past was to deny fully qualified 18Ds because they could not afford to lose them in the units. And finally, not every 18D, after being wounded in war, is qualified to continue to serve. I myself was an Air Force Independent Duty Medical Technician. While I was in, the AF version of IPAP was not even running, no PAs were being trained from at least 1983-1990. By the time I was off my remote site and in the US, I was considered too old to attend the school and had to wait for retirement to go to a civilian program.

[68W2PA]

Spoken like someone who has never worn a uniform to understand.

 

Heh. I'm a 68W starting IPAP in a couple months.

 

As to the rest of your post, all I am saying is that there are numerous opportunities both in and out of the service for 18Ds. There have been for a while now. It is great that there is another program to take advantage of their impressive backgrounds. With good grades and test scores, I would think being a 18D would move you up to the top of the list of almost any civilian program. With the HRSA grants out there helping schools turn vets into PAs, we have lots of opportunities.

 

There is a great thread here about helping vets become PAs. It lists many of the programs that receive HRSA grants and give preference to vets.

 

The list includes:

Baylor College of Medicine

Bay Path College

Eastern Virginia Medical School

Georgia Health Sciences University

Midwestern University

University of Nebraska

University of North Dakota

Northern Arizona University

Pacific University

University of South Alabama

University of Texas Health Science Center – San Antonio University of Washington

The University of Utah

The University of Washington - MEDEX

[jsfelder0417]

Rc, simply put, not everyone wants to continue in the military. Therefore, why not support a program that appreciates military medics? While 18Ds are a pretty small niche, like others have said, the program will likely take applications from other medics (IDCs, W1s, FMF Corpsman, PJs etc) in the future. I am very excited for this program, and think they will push out some awesome PAs. Also, I see that the University of Utah is on the list of military friendly schools, but that was not my experience. I did not have Gen Chem I at the time of application because I was stationed overseas. MEDEX, Loma Linda, Touro and ISU had no problem with this, and told me to apply anyway, although I would have to finish the course before matriculation. The U of U simply told me I would be wasting my time applying because they don't look at incomplete apps. That is well within their rights, and i'm sure their class was filled, but simply being brushed off left a bad taste in my mouth.

[viseversa]

I have a friend who was a RECON Corpsman, and wasn't even asked to interview at Baylor or San Antonio. His over all GPA was 3.1 and Science was 3.2. His last 60 hours were 3.9. After two years of not getting accepted he applied out of state and got into Duke and Iowa.

[rcdavis]

Rc, simply put, not everyone wants to continue in the military. Therefore, why not support a program that appreciates military medics? While 18Ds are a pretty small niche, like others have said, the program will likely take applications from other medics (IDCs, W1s, FMF Corpsman, PJs etc) in the future. I am very excited for this program, and think they will push out some awesome PAs. Also, I see that the University of Utah is on the list of military friendly schools, but that was not my experience. I did not have Gen Chem I at the time of application because I was stationed overseas. MEDEX, Loma Linda, Touro and ISU had no problem with this, and told me to apply anyway, although I would have to finish the course before matriculation. The U of U simply told me I would be wasting my time applying because they don't look at incomplete apps. That is well within their rights, and i'm sure their class was filled, but simply being brushed off left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I am in complete agreement. My comments have reflected yours. I am however not going to disparage the unc first classes which are limiting applications to deltas. It is a START. They may in the future expand to include the other "top of the heap" medics.. IDTs, Submarine HM, PJs, ... And, at that point stop expansion.. And become what I would imagine to VE a Super-PA school, known for accepting the proven best from the service and fine tuning them and sending out what I think will be the top peer of immediately qualified PAs in the nation...

OR, they will again take a risk, and still further expand their admission pool to include the FMF and combat medics, again, guys who have thousands of actual patient care, patient management hours. And become a school putting out groups of wonderfully qualified immediately functioning PAs.. The place I will preferentailly go to recruit.

 

Right now, they are starting. Just starting. They are not making all people happy (PJs,IDTs, all they way down to the junior medics and corpsmen who all feel that they too are qualified to be considered). So be it. IT IS A START.

 

And I absolutely endorce and encourage it.

 

We are saying basically the same thing. I am dreaming of what in my opinion is the perfect PA school, populated by the perfect PA students, and all the things this will do for the profession.

 

V/r

 

rc

[rcdavis]

OMG I had the shock of my life when I worked ED last Christmas break with one of our brand-new PAs. She was an IPAP grad. Very unimpressive knowledge base and I was shocked to learn she had been a COSMETOLOGIST before IPAP. I didn't even know the army had cosmetologists!! I hope my recall is incorrect but it was definitely something very unrelated to medicine by a long stretch. Made me wonder if IPAP is no longer what it once was. She did have 20 yr or so prior military experience. She is currently on deployment and I really hope she learns a whole lot in the field!

 

Lisa, I agree. IPAP has diminished the standing military trained PAs had when to become one you had to have been a medic or corpsman with multiple years of experience. I do not include non-medic IPAP graduates in my to-the-front-of-the-line evacuation in hiring preference. The IPAP grad you describe is more along e lines of what I see from the regular PA schools.

[cupojava]

This sounds like a pretty good plan. Why would it be a bad thing? The first class of PAs were all Navy Corpsmen and look how that turned out. If it starts with 18D, maybe in the future it will include other MOSs too. I didn't see anything in the announcement that it will only be exclusive to men but it states "build on the extensive medical training Special Forces Medical Sergeants receive during their service". So if a female wants to apply and can keep up with the class, why not? Keep knocking on doors. That's what Joyce Nichols (rip) did who was the first female PA. I guess this would make the 8th PA school in NC? Would this saturate the filed like NY? Don't know.

[jsfelder0417]

Oops, I should have specifically wrote Rcjarrell, not Rcdavis. He or she was was insinuating that military medics should just go to IPAP. IPAP is a great program, but not everyone wants to stay in the military, so I will absolutely support a civilian program showing a little military love.

[68W2PA]

Oops, I should have specifically wrote Rcjarrell, not Rcdavis. He or she was was insinuating that military medics should just go to IPAP. IPAP is a great program, but not everyone wants to stay in the military, so I will absolutely support a civilian program showing a little military love.

 

BS

 

I am not saying anybody "should" do anything. I simply states that 18Ds have both the IPAP option (which is actually several options in and of itself) as well as various other civilian programs with veteran preferences and HRSA grants that they can choose from. It isn't like these soldiers talents were being completely squandered. If they are motivated (as most tend to be) then they should have a relatively easy time transitioning into a PA program.

[68W2PA]

OMG I had the shock of my life when I worked ED last Christmas break with one of our brand-new PAs. She was an IPAP grad. Very unimpressive knowledge base and I was shocked to learn she had been a COSMETOLOGIST before IPAP. I didn't even know the army had cosmetologists!! I hope my recall is incorrect but it was definitely something very unrelated to medicine by a long stretch. Made me wonder if IPAP is no longer what it once was. She did have 20 yr or so prior military experience. She is currently on deployment and I really hope she learns a whole lot in the field!

 

I have never heard of a cosmetology MOS in the Army.

 

Lisa, I agree. IPAP has diminished the standing military trained PAs had when to become one you had to have been a medic or corpsman with multiple years of experience. I do not include non-medic IPAP graduates in my to-the-front-of-the-line evacuation in hiring preference. The IPAP grad you describe is more along e lines of what I see from the regular PA schools.

 

FYI - More than 2/3 of Army attendees come from the enlisted 68 medical series. Of the officers that get in, around 1/3 are from the Medical Service Corps. Many of those that come in from the Guard and Reserve have Paramedic or Nursing backgrounds.

[jsfelder0417]

I don't have any issues with this program. I just don't understand the hoopla. We already have a stellar "free" PA program in the service (IPAP) the 18Ds can go to.

 

Jus' sayin'. I think it's a pretty big deal 18Ds are getting some love. I'm all for it.

[sartort]

I e-mailed the program at UNC to find out if they will consider medic applicants besides 18D's, along with my concern that specifically women will be excluded. I was told they appreciate my concerns and that my e-mail was forwarded to the Associate Dean and Chair of the Department of Allied Health, but that she was out of the office currently. I was expecting them to already have a response rather than needing to send the question up so maybe they haven't fully decided on this aspect yet.

[Super Duper]

Jus' sayin'. I think it's a pretty big deal 18Ds are getting some love. I'm all for it.

 

I agree. At times it can be quite difficult for 18D's to get to IPAP, depending on mission tempo and 18D numbers. Good on them for getting this chance.

[d2305]

I think it's a good deal for them. They have earned a break or two.