RNs becoming PAs and not NPs

[hotice]

This question may have been asked before, but I could not find using the search feature. Why would a RN BSN become a PA and not a NP?

[Friction]

I don't have a BSN but some of the more common things I've seen... Medical model training instead of the nursing model, variety of work opportunities, the fact that NP is moving towards a Doctorate.

[Arkansas Ranger]

I am a RN, and my state school (UAMS) recently initiated its first PA program. I also have no idea what it costs. Ok, there's a PA program in place at Harding University, but it's a private school so the cost isn't worth the benefit, IMO. I became a RN incidentally while working full-time as a police officer. I haven't been on these forums in forever so I'll give it my take.

 

I'm in a NP program. I started it as soon as I finished my RN/BSN program. I don't want to function as a RN. That's not an ideal career path for me. There was not really an option to become a PA, and I realized I had other things going on in life that I didn't want to forsake to go to medical school. That said, NP was the most efficient path. I'm actually doing psychiatric/mental health, and that's a role that PA's don't delve into much,and at the moment it seems that psych NP will be the best NP route to get a job with here. I'm also able to do much of the didactic work online, and the program really doesn't cost that much. I'm able to work full-time, live life, and do the NP thing. I was able to work full-time, live life, and do the RN thing. I don't know if I'd have been able to do that in PA school or anyother "advanced" healthcare program.

 

Had I to do it all over again, I'd have probably chosen the PA route for reasons already described by Friction above. The PA path follows the medical model, and as a result the classes would appear, from the outside looking in, more geared toward what I want to know. Nursing doesn't really push physio/patho/pharm as a body of knowledge critical to the profession. I'm not sure why. I like the biology stuff more than the task-oriented nursing stuff. My first degree concentrated in biology many years ago, and I used to work part-time as a paramedic, while an officer, so I had the prereq healthcare experienced needed by PA programs.

 

Now, as I look at myself, I don't really want to deal with HTN, DM, Alz, COPD, CHF, etc. I see that everyday at work, and it's pretty much all the same to me. I'm bored with that as a staple so I wouldn't think primary care, as a PA, NP, MD, DO, or XYZ, would've been appealing to me. I think I'd been unhappy in the longterm. We still don't see midlevels used that much in ERs in Arkansas, and I don't want to wait around for the gate to open for that to become common enough that I'd find a job in that arena . I'm also unwilling to leave AR. That doesn't leave a lot of options.

 

The nursing doctorate was brought up, and I think that's the biggest pile of **** to hit healthcare. UAMS is gearing up to start offering a DNP in coming semesters, and I don't see any utility or practicality in it. I've yet to see a DNP program focused on science, and for the fact that nursing, for whatever reason, tries to distance itself from biomedical science so the DNPs will never be rich in the -ologies with nothing left to focus on but nursing theories, managerial matters, and that line of education. Bear in mind, I have no idea what the curriculum will be for the DNP program here. I'm only concerned with finishing my master's and being done with school permanently. Between two bachelor's, an associate's, and a master's program I've spent enough time in the classroom.

 

But to summarize, they would become a PA for a better education.

[ToppDog]

NP's are limited to whatever area of medicine they train in, PA's can switch at will. NP's are educated using nursing theory, where PA's are trained in the medical model very similar to MD's. The amount of clinical rotations & total hours with live patients is much higher for PA students.

 

It comes down to choice & individual circumstances in the end. There are a lot of reasons why RN's choose NP over PA as well. And, UC Davis still has their dual program where you can get both.

[jdobbs]

I'm a RN, BSN currently in PA school. It was a difficult decision to decide to go to PA school rather than NP school. NP school is, well, a lot easier, cheaper, and less time consuming than PA school and a NP licence leads to pretty much the same job as a PA. As I'm typing this I'm second guessing my decision again, but I think the extra effort and time put in to my education will pay off in the long run and make me a better healthcare provider.

 

On a side note, I think RN-PA is a pretty cool combination.

[Acebecker]

I share an office with a NP who has stated that she wishes she'd had the same training that PAs get. I have a lot to say on the matter and I agree that PAs have better didactics, better clinicals, and overall a better system of training. The challenge is in student selection. That's all I'll say about that for now.

 

Andrew

[dannydude57]

I am a RN who is matriculating into a PA program in three months. Much of my decision in choosing the PA pathway over a NP pathway stemmed from the greater focus in clinical didactics that PA programs offer. I feel that having a very strong/extensive RN background is necessary to become a competent NP. Although I feel I received excellent training as an ER RN, I believe PA school will give me a stronger fundamental clinical foundation than the local NP programs. That is why I made my choice.

 

Dan RN

[PAstudentCanada]

An NP in cardiology at a major teaching hospital in Toronto told me "I should have become a PA; you guys have way better training and medical education." He was advising several RNs to become PAs, not NPs.

[MedicinePower]

I work for a nursing department at a community college as a tutor for their pre-nursing students. I once asked a faculty member about PAs and her reply was, "They are undertrained, failed used shoe salesmen." I was a bit shocked at this and then she began to complain how NPs are being relegated to primary care while PAs seem to be "infiltrating" specialty care. It was a fascinating conversation.

[BARONEUS]

Ok, there's a PA program in place at Harding University, but it's a private school so the cost isn't worth the benefit, IMO.

 

I'm actually doing psychiatric/mental health, and that's a role that PA's don't delve into much,and at the moment it seems that psych NP will be the best NP route to get a job with here.

 

Now, as I look at myself, I don't really want to deal with HTN, DM, Alz, COPD, CHF, etc. I see that everyday at work, and it's pretty much all the same to me. /QUOTE]

 

I actually attend the so-called overpriced private school you reference, and I will say that based on the caliber of the faculty, and what they're willing to do in order for you to succeed, the price is a bargain.

 

Also, I just finished taking a neuro/psych section exam. For this section we spent over 21 hours in lecture, and the test made at least 2 people cry. If PAs don't delve much into psych, it's not because they're unprepared.

 

Help me understand how HTN, DM, Alz, COPD, and CHF are all the same.

[Arkansas Ranger]

Ok, there's a PA program in place at Harding University, but it's a private school so the cost isn't worth the benefit, IMO.

 

I'm actually doing psychiatric/mental health, and that's a role that PA's don't delve into much,and at the moment it seems that psych NP will be the best NP route to get a job with here.

 

Now, as I look at myself, I don't really want to deal with HTN, DM, Alz, COPD, CHF, etc. I see that everyday at work, and it's pretty much all the same to me. /QUOTE]

 

I actually attend the so-called overpriced private school you reference, and I will say that based on the caliber of the faculty, and what they're willing to do in order for you to succeed, the price is a bargain.

 

Also, I just finished taking a neuro/psych section exam. For this section we spent over 21 hours in lecture, and the test made at least 2 people cry. If PAs don't delve much into psych, it's not because they're unprepared.

 

Help me understand how HTN, DM, Alz, COPD, and CHF are all the same.

 

You seem to have been rubbed a bit raw by my initial reply. I'm not sure why. I've not said a single derogatory word about your school or education. I did, however, point out that the tuition at Harding is more than I am willing to pay. Take that for what it's worth.

 

I also don't see a lot of jobs advertised in Arkansas for PAs in psychiatric care settings. If they're out there then hey I'm wrong. I make mistakes, but I'm not aware of PAs providing a lot of psychiatric-specific care here so no PAs don't seem to delve off into psych much. If they do, I'd like to know. I'm very much in favor of PAs and prefer the broad, biomedical education over anything nursing can offer. I never made a statement about the classes you take. I believe all along I've pointed out that PA classes are better than NP classes. http://www.harding.edu/PAprogram/Curriculum.html That looks great to me. I envy that you get to take those things, but I don't envy it enough to pay nearly $10k / semester; http://www.harding.edu/PAprogram/Admission.html#tuition.

 

I don't see how my life and career would benefit by that expense thus the statement, "...the cost isn't worth the benefit, IMO." It's not a bad place. I've been to Searcy, and I've been on the Harding campus albeit a decade ago while attending a hazardous material course sponsored by the Arkansas Dept. of Emergency Management. I don't want to move to northeast Arkansas or Crowley's Ridge so again, there's a personal drawback to me. In 2005, I was in contact over the course of a few months with a faculty member of the PA program there. No, I don't remember the person's name or even gender, but I concluded that Searcy, Harding, and the tuition wasn't for me.

 

With respect to your final sentence, clearly they're different physiologically, but I've seen them enough that I'm not interested in them anymore as a career focus. As a result, it's all the same; come to work, see it, treat it, go home. Call it burn out, disinterest, a preference to move on to something different, who can say? Most of us look for some kind of change in the workplace at some point. Why trample on how I feel about it though?

 

I'm still not sure why you're upset, but I hope I've smoothed things over.

[jdobbs]

People get offended too easily

[BARONEUS]

People also misinterpret. Just because I disagree with "Arkansas Ranger's" viewpoint doesn't mean i'm gasping and throwing my hands in the air like she just stole my pie off the ledge. There are benefits to private schools, AS WELL AS non-private ones. I actually did my undergrad at the same school she did, so in some ways I understand the point. Also, if you believe that most of the major morbid conditions are the same, I would agree that you are burnt out. I apologize for putting it in such a way that "trampled on your feelings."

[ToppDog]

...The challenge is in student selection. That's all I'll say about that for now.

 

Andrew

 

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion on this when you do say something about it :)

[Arkansas Ranger]

People also misinterpret. Just because I disagree with "Arkansas Ranger's" viewpoint doesn't mean i'm gasping and throwing my hands in the air like she just stole my pie off the ledge. There are benefits to private schools, AS WELL AS non-private ones. I actually did my undergrad at the same school she did, so in some ways I understand the point. Also, if you believe that most of the major morbid conditions are the same, I would agree that you are burnt out. I apologize for putting it in such a way that "trampled on your feelings."

 

I'm definitely a he, lol. Location and price are the drawbacks for Harding and me. My feelings aren't hurt. I just don't know why any of it was a concern for you.

[jsfelder0417]

I am an 'undertrained, failed shoe salesman.' HAHAHA thanks for the laugh after a 120 question Cardiology exam this morning, covering everything from Torsade de Pointes to the Tetrology of Fallot to Transposition of the Great Vessels. For what it's worth, though, my first job was selling skateboarding supplies, including shoes, for Vans. Pay sucked, but it was a pretty fun job.

[Cleverisallxx]

I work for a nursing department at a community college as a tutor for their pre-nursing students. I once asked a faculty member about PAs and her reply was, "They are undertrained, failed used shoe salesmen." I was a bit shocked at this and then she began to complain how NPs are being relegated to primary care while PAs seem to be "infiltrating" specialty care. It was a fascinating conversation.

 

 

=O sounds like that faculty member is suffering from a serious case of jealousy/regret? In any case, what a horrible way to describe an entire industry of dedicated people.

[Hemegroup]

She's just jealous she wasn't taught by Physicians and had no Surgical training ;) Poor dear. I'm sure when she gets her DNP and starts calling herself "Doctor", she'll feel better capable.

[Boatswain2PA]

Until she hears us laughing at her.

 

"Are you a 'real' Doctor, or a Doctor Pepper type doctor?".

[EMEDPA]

Until she hears us laughing at her.

 

"Are you a 'real' Doctor, or a Doctor Pepper type doctor?".

nope, a "noctor".

[Justeco]

The "nocters" are all but assured to gain full independence nation wide. They'll be the ones laughing last.

[EMEDPA]

The "nocters" are all but assured to gain full independence nation wide. They'll be the ones laughing last.

yup, most likely....

[Joelseff]

yup, most likely....

 

But for now we can laugh at them... Hahaha...Hahaha...bwahahahaha...ha..ha..ha...sigh.

 

Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk

[EMEDPA]

I think the noctors will own the primary care advanced practice clinician market while the PAs will own the inpt/er/surgical market.

hospitals will not allow them to go around calling themselves "doctors" on inpatient services. several states already have laws limiting their ability to do so.

there is nothing, however, stopping a noctor from opening their own office and saying " I'm dr smith".

[hotice]

This helps me make my decision even easier. To make a long story short. I applied for a second degree in BSN (It was super quick and easy to get into nursing school) while I finishing up the rest of my prereqs for PA school. I am definitely going to go to PA school if I get accepted. BSN to NP was and is still only a backup plan.