from emcare. discuss

[EMEDPA]

this is the official emcare newsletter:

 

http://emcare.web12.hubspot.com/blog/bid/256388/An-E-D-Doctor-Who-s-Not-an-M-D?utm_source=hubspot_email_marketing&utm_medium=email&utm_content=6724664&_hsenc=ANqtz--2qwYPwIzqg-T7EZhi8h3L5Nk78khe90MrKit-LlHhJIsWSCmR2TwQ31f5TgVxqKuMs1vuT1ckiQXH-Ul8YJgIuAYa3Q&_hsmi=6724664

[True Anomaly]

All I have to say for now is, "Stirring the pot, I see :D"

[EMEDPA]

just surprised that a physician run independent/democratic em group allowed this on their official site.

I wonder how they would respond to one of their pa's with a doctorate introducing themselves as dr smith the em pa.

[primadonna22274]

I read it too and I was flabbergasted.

[andersenpa]

I've read for 10 secs and already I can see that she doesn't know the definition of "penultimate"...."

[Just Steve]

Articles like that are nice for a newbie like myself to read. It lets me know of one less place to apply for a job.

[True Anomaly]

Problem is, Emcare is in a LOT of ER's around the country.

 

Not that you, Steve, should have a problem finding a job when you get certified.

[CAdamsPAC]

I've read for 10 secs and already I can see that she doesn't know the definition of "penultimate"...."

 

 

 

ANDERSENPA!!!!!!Please stop agreeing with me! ;-)

[Medic207]

Let them duke it out (ie: MD vs DNP)

 

I know when to stay out of a pissin contest.

 

The comments have been very interesting to read, and this is one time to shut the heck up.

[andersenpa]

Except when some doc says only physicians practice medicine.

[Medic207]

We know the truth and so do the docs that are our SP. But I would let the mudslinging stay between them.

[andersenpa]

Unfortunately we are at a point where it is not adequate that only we and our SPs know the truth.

Everyone needs to know it.

PAs practice medicine.

[Medic207]

I agree but I wouldn't inject into this particular pissing contest or we will be "grouped" with the loosing side in that one.

This particular thread/scuffle is pitted between the MDs and the NPs. I don't want to be dragged into it.

History and a tincture of time will reveal the truth.

 

Advocacy groups should promote us in a civil venue, not in back alley fights.

[andersenpa]

On that I agree

My only thing to add is that PAs and NPs, like it or not, live in a symbiosis.

While we may bow out of this battle we need to be with them in the overall war.

[ventana]

NOCTOR's hey I like that! what about Nucters?

 

I would prefer the "new grad" boarded EM doc managing my inferior wall MI then a DNP with 8 different initials after his/her name........ I choose the "over trained over educated doc" (or EMDPA of course)

 

as for Doctor - PT's, podiatry, counselors, dentists, nurses and a slew of other people can call themselves "doctor" so the AMA is loosing that battle slow but sure.... when is the clinical internal medicine doctorate for PA's coming out???

 

Love the one doc that said medical school was 7 years (yikes stayed back three times and is still a doc!)

Love the DNP staying her 2 year residency is in any way like a doc's residency.....

[jen0508]

thought it was illegal for anyone other than a MD/DO/dentist to introduce themselvs as doctor in a hospital setting.. maybe its just my state

[ventana]

thought it was illegal for anyone other than a MD/DO/dentist to introduce themselvs as doctor in a hospital setting.. maybe its just my state

 

I doubt that is the "law" in any state (but I am guessing)

think Chiro's and psychologists to name a few

 

lots of "feeling and emotions" on this topic - search old threads for more details -

[Boatswain2PA]

On that I agree

My only thing to add is that PAs and NPs, like it or not, live in a symbiosis.

While we may bow out of this battle we need to be with them in the overall war.

 

I disagree. If we "side" with the NPs, we're done as a profession. They vastly outnumber us, and they don't care for us organizationally.

 

We need to be on the side of the (real) Doctors, and we need to get them on our side.

[mathwizard]

Its just a matter of time when someone in the MD community gets fed up with this nonsense. I predict a merging of PA and NP in the future to a new titled mid level. They will never let anyone be an MD without traditional medical school completion. The new profession training required and the certification will be the same requirements as current PA's already complete but NP's will be stunned when they have to raise standards and attempt to fit into the new requirements.The nursing world has enjoyed a fast rise to the top over the last few years but it wont last when even those in the community of nursing including myself are embarrassed by the whole DNP idea. Very few rank and file working nurses support the DNP or respect the attainment sadly. How can a NP provide good care when the majority dont even take one science class during training and the majority of clinical training is observing instead of performing care?

[Boatswain2PA]

I predict a merging of PA and NP in the future to a new titled mid level....The new profession training required and the certification will be the same requirements as current PA's already complete but......

 

That boat sailed 40 years ago when the nursing mafia shot down Dr. Stead's efforts to turn great nurses into PAs. Now they have us so far outnumbered that there is no reason for them to want to merge with us.

 

One of four things will happen. #1) Maintain status quo, with some minor shifts, and we keep squabbling about it. #2) The DNP will finally convince enough Doctor's that the Nuctors are a true threat to the profession and they stop hiring NP/DNPs, thus driving them out of the market. #3) The DNP curriculum becomes standardized and improves to the point where it is clinically competitive with the PA curriculum which would drive PAs out of the market, or #4) The incredibly powerful nursing mafia continues to grow in political strength and, via manipulation of state/fed laws, pushes the PA profession out of the market.

 

But there is no chance that the two professions will ever merge.

[andersenpa]

I disagree. If we "side" with the NPs, we're done as a profession. They vastly outnumber us, and they don't care for us organizationally.

 

We need to be on the side of the (real) Doctors, and we need to get them on our side.

 

there's nothing to be accomplished with compartmentalized thinking in this marketplace. There's a three way tug of war with MD/NP/PA and we're hardly pulling. We have mutual goals with NPs and it makes sense to ride the coattails fo their efforts to decentralize the practice of medicine/patient care from physicians.

 

The fact is whether we side with them or not we likely have a similar fate. They have the numbers and dollars, we don't. We may be on the side of "real" doctors but they will NOT have the same sense if dedication. We a re a good foil for them to use against organized nursing UNTIL nursing reaches critical mass with the trajectory they are on. Growth in indepdent states, IOM, NGA, etc... we worry about "opening practice acts" and NPs are doing JUST THAT to great success.

 

Our only survivability will likely be as specialty and surgical "assistants" if we hold tight solely to physician alliances. When the political climate becomes so favorable to nursing, the direction it is running towards, PAs will become more of a niche specialist like perfusionists. The broad view of PAs will be lost if we don't anchor ourselves to the growing notion that "not only doctors practice medicine (advanced nursing!)"....and NPs are the ones who will lead that charge.

[Boatswain2PA]

Anderson - I would agree with you except for the issue which you already alluded to...the nursing mafia has no dedication or allegiance to us. Nor will they ever, there just isn't any need for them to. The physicians, on the other hand, do have a reason to (we work FOR them, and thus make their job easier and make them money!)

[Boatswain2PA]

Double post

[rcdavis]

there's nothing to be accomplished with compartmentalized thinking in this marketplace. There's a three way tug of war with MD/NP/PA and we're hardly pulling. We have mutual goals with NPs and it makes sense to ride the coattails fo their efforts to decentralize the practice of medicine/patient care from physicians.

 

The fact is whether we side with them or not we likely have a similar fate. They have the numbers and dollars, we don't. We may be on the side of "real" doctors but they will NOT have the same sense if dedication. We a re a good foil for them to use against organized nursing UNTIL nursing reaches critical mass with the trajectory they are on. Growth in indepdent states, IOM, NGA, etc... we worry about "opening practice acts" and NPs are doing JUST THAT to great success.

 

Our only survivability will likely be as specialty and surgical "assistants" if we hold tight solely to physician alliances. When the political climate becomes so favorable to nursing, the direction it is running towards, PAs will become more of a niche specialist like perfusionists. The broad view of PAs will be lost if we don't anchor ourselves to the growing notion that "not only doctors practice medicine (advanced nursing!)"....and NPs are the ones who will lead that charge.

 

 

So, .. Several years ago I suggested that we all go back to school and become RNs... And try ad get dual credentialled.. PA-NP-... Are we ready for that...

Should we do it???

[andersenpa]

So, .. Several years ago I suggested that we all go back to school and become RNs... And try ad get dual credentialled.. PA-NP-... Are we ready for that...

Should we do it???

 

 

I don't think a merging of the professions (or better put an acquisition of PAs by nursing) is out of the realm of possibility.

The PA-NP bridge is only palatable if there is a distance learning pathway. The working PA who wants the NP for full practice ownership and scope freedoms is probably NOT going to go back and muddle through an RN program.