Acebecker Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I don't work in UC full time - only about 32hr/wk. My pay is $40/hr plus a pretty decent benefit package including paid time off and CME. I also get quarterly bonuses based on production. Annual salary about $90k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 I don't work in UC full time - only about 32hr/wk. My pay is $40/hr plus a pretty decent benefit package including paid time off and CME. I also get quarterly bonuses based on production. Annual salary about $90k. Given the AAPA's 2009 salary report and other salary sites that I've found online, $40 with benefits seems appropriate, and I don't think I could justifiably push for much more. While it would certainly be nice to earn more, I have no solid evidence that a UC PA with less than 1 year experience should make $45+/hr. To those of you who say that $45+ is the bare minimum, do you have any way of substantiating that? Do you have anything that I could show the potential employer to strengthen my stance? Also, new question: The contract allows me to have a second job, but the it stipulates that the other job (which for now is my current FT FP job) cannot take priority over the UC clinic. Maybe I don't understand, but that doesn't make much sense to me. When they're only offering me 0-20 hrs/wk on a PRN basis (to start... until a FT position opens up), how can I make that my first priority job? I've got bills to pay, you know? It would of course be reasonable if they were making me a full-time offer, but they're not. Am I confused, or is the UC asking too much? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebecker Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 you're quoting a 4 year old salary survey. not an accurate assessment of salaries currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 you're quoting a 4 year old salary survey. not an accurate assessment of salaries currently. Can you tell me where I might find more up-to-date information? I feel like I need some kind of evidence to back up my demands. How would you approach this then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 You might get some salary information from MGMA web site. It is a site for physician groups and practices and has salary information. I do not think you need to be a member to find information. Regarding the contract and restriction on your FP job: Have the prospective employer write up a special or short term contract that allows you to work full time at your FP clinic until you get a job offer from them for full time work. You may end up working only weekends, or holidays. I would also ask them if you are only a prn employee that they pay you a much better wage, as you receive no benefits, are essentially on call, and will probably get all the shifts no one else wants. It would be a trial run for you to get your feet wet, and see if you would even like the job full time. Or you write into the contract that you will only work some weekends until you get a full time job offer. Another alternate possibility is if you can negotiate with your current FP employer to have one day a week off...say Fridays or Mondays, and then tell the UC center you want to be scheduled on those days. It works if you play your cards right. You could pull weekend shifts as well. Remember, the employer is not really watching out for you as they are watching out for themselves. They will happily pay you for a low wage. It is worth it to negotiate a decent wage. If I can find information on up to date wage scales for PAs, I will post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 19, 2013 Author Share Posted January 19, 2013 Paula - thanks for the excellent information and suggestions. I will definitely take those into consideration when drafting my counter-offer. And definitely please let me know if you find some more information about PA wages. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 P.S. Google Advance for NPs and PAs. They do an annual salary survey. It is a monthly journal for NPs and PAs. The 2011 survey is out, 2012 still in the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 AAPA most recent salary report is 2010. Freestanding urgent care in Utah average is $100,000/year. The report is free if you are a member. Good luck. It's a challenge to negotiate and I've only learned by trial and reading and get better at it with experience. Negotiation is not taught in PA school to the detriment of us all! Let us all know hoe things turn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 20, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2013 you are in the perfect position they approached you - use this to your benefit The simply reply of "I had no intentions of changing jobs but after thinking about it I would be interested at these figures" You don't need a job (already working) and they approached you don't shoot to high then they just walk away GET THE AAPA salary survey - it is worth it - it is cold hard facts that they employer can't just discount - it is a HUGE sample size and as far as salary data it is stronger then anything else I have ever seen.... I would say $2k/week plus full bennies for full time work in UC is the counter offer with full health insurance for family and some type of retirement and productivity bonus. They are a chain, the bean counters know what you generate inP PROFIT - don't let them keep it all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurePAS Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Here in California, new RNs make $35-40/h. PAs seem to very underpaid when compared to MD/RN wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 20, 2013 Author Share Posted January 20, 2013 Ok. I did some more research, gathered some numbers (AAPA, Advance), and then stared at them... thinking. Eureka! Now that I have some data in front of me, I'm feeling much better about countering a full $6/hr (or more) higher than I was offered. I think my problem to this point was that I just didn't understand my own worth. I kept thinking that I should aim low because I've only been practicing for 7.5 months... but so what?? I've learned a lot in that time... it has been a baptism by fire, and I have improved my procedural skills, worked with a lot of autonomy, and become very resourceful. I'm not the same PA as when I started, and that is absolutely worth something. For the first time, I'm realizing that I must stand up for myself. I may still be newer, but I'm good at what I do, and it is completely appropriate for me to expect average pay. If I get my target $45/hr, I will remind them that that is still a bit below average for Utah, and my stipulations will include that there must be potential for me to have at least average pay by the end of my 3-year contract. I think that's only fair, and not too much to ask. So, when the time comes for me to have that conversation with them, I will be ready with printouts and salary reports. Until our meeting, I'll also continuously remind myself that I am worth that much... until I have really internalized it. If I'm going to do this, I can't have doubts. I can't pretend to think I'm valuable. I have to actually believe it, or they'll see right through me... because I'm not a good liar. It will be interesting to see how they react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCMA79 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Here in California, new RNs make $35-40/h. PAs seem to very underpaid when compared to MD/RN wages. suppy vs. demand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 20, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2013 fwiw I made 32/hr in ca 14 years ago. That same job today pays 70/hr. union/hmo urgent care southern ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpsman2PA Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 suppy vs. demand I think 'union' would be the correct term. CA is highly saturated with RNs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Boy, was I stupid. After PA school, it took me over a year to find a job (it's complicated), and once I finally got an offer, I was so desperate that I would have agreed to anything... and I did. (That's how I scored an underpaying job which also has no benefits at all!) At the time I was hired, I did not get copies of the contract or proof of my malpractice coverage. So I just asked the office manager if I could get those for my personal/professional file... She doesn't have anything that says I'm covered under my SP's insurance, and suggests that I ask him about it because I'm [hopefully] on his policy. She also doesn't have any kind of contract, and now that I think about it, I'm really not entirely sure there even WAS a contract. The upside is that I guess I don't have to worry about a noncompete clause or anything like that, and there is nothing to say I can't just up and leave without any notice. The downside? Let's hope I actually do have malpractice coverage. Shame on me for not demanding documentation of my coverage sooner. I don't know how I could ask my SP for a document that shows my malpractice coverage without looking really suspicious. He doesn't know about this offer I have, and I don't want him to find out. If I had asked for this around when I was hired, it wouldn't be an issue. But now? I'm afraid my secret will be out in a hurry. Stupid, stupid, stupid. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 No Christine, you are not stupid and should not feel that you cannot ask for a copy of the physician malpractice insurance rider that proves you are covered. Physicians must have coverage for any employee that they supervise and you are to have a copy of the insurance. If you are not covered, you and your SP will be in BIG trouble in the case of a malpractice event. You can tell him you need it for your files, because you do. Just ask for it. Say, Dr. X, I am required to keep copies of the malpractice carrier that I am under for my files. Can I get a copy of our malpractice policy by the end of the day? If he says no, ask him the name of the carrier and call them to get your copy. Make no excuses for asking for it and you are not obligated to tell him any more than you keep you personal practice profile up to date. You should also have copies of all the insurance companies you are credentialed under, and the medicare/medicaid credentialing approvals. I don't know your background, age or work experience before PA school, but one thing I have learned in the walk of life is to develop confidence and a backbone...(through fire and making mistakes) It took a while, but once you have confidence and the strong back, you will not call yourself stupid. You are not. Straighten up the spine, take a deep breath, you can do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Thanks, Paula. It occurred to me, right after I posted that message, that my SP uses an outside agency to manage credentialing and stuff like that. I just contacted them to request copies of my credentialing info, my malpractice insurance, and contract... if one exists. I don't have to go through my SP. That's a relief. When I wrote that last post, I intended to convey that I was being stupid at the time I accepted my current job - overlooking things, not negotiating, etc. Perhaps it would have been better for me to accuse myself of having been "careless" rather than "stupid." Believe it or not, I am nearly infinitely more self-confident than I used to be... but admittedly still have some room to grow. I could give all kinds of reasons why I've never been self-confident, but A) You're not my therapist, :wink: and B) I'm an adult and at this point I know that no one cares about any sob stories. It's up to me to choose what kind of person I want to be. I realize that in order for me to be successful in my negotiations on this job (or whatever else comes along), I have got to be genuinely self-confident (without being arrogant or overbearing). I'll work on straightening that spine a little better now. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I just want to say "thanks" for the thread. As a student, reading these types of threads gets me more prepared to launch into my own job search. If no one talked about this stuff, we'd all be in the dark. So keep up the strong work and best of luck. Hope it all works out to be beneficial for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I was lucky to run into a couple of PAs shortly after PA school who helped me learn the ropes of negotiation and the ins and outs of the seedy side of medicine. Ultimately, no one will care for you as much as you do, and I learned one must have their radar on and rabbit ears up when in negotiations and in interviews. I'm still learning myself. Good luck, Christine. Just Steve: Ask your PA school to put together a short class on negotiations, job interviews, liability insurance, wages, etc. It could be a short 2-3 hour class on the basics for the second year students after all the rotations are done, and before graduation. Good luck to both of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Just Steve: Ask your PA school to put together a short class on negotiations, job interviews, liability insurance, wages, etc. It could be a short 2-3 hour class on the basics for the second year students after all the rotations are done, and before graduation. Good luck to both of you! They have assigned the clinical students to write a 3 or so page paper on "landing the ultimate PA job" which entails several of the things discussed here, plus helping the student flesh out what sort of medicine that they may want to go into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMT2PA Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Wow! I am shocked to read about the pay in some of these areas. Where I live new grads make about $45 hr first day on the job. Matter of fact, a good friend of mine is making 125k and he has been a PA for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvdude Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 To the poster above..where at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 When I was in Orlando and first looked into the profession (approx 2005) the PA I spoke with said that he started at 90k 10 years prior (95). Not sure if it was the same company (one of those contract companies that the ER used to get providers) but still..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Here are some numbers I found while continuing my salary research today: AAPA - Median UC salary in Utah: $100,000 or about $48/hr MGMA - Median UC salary in Utah: $108,235, or about $52/hr AAUCM - Average UC salary Nationally: $114,400 or $55/hr My limited work experience (~8 months) may decrease my salary or hourly pay by a bit... but by how much? I wish I knew. These numbers aren't 75th or 90th percentiles. These are medians and averages, which means that half of the UC PAs in Utah make MORE than that. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask for a median pay. I was offered much, much less. Because I'm newer, I would be willing to settle for a little less than median or average, but is there a point at which you might decide that the original offer is so low that it's not even worth trying to negotiate? I'm worried that I'm there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Here are some numbers I found while continuing my salary research today: AAPA - Median UC salary in Utah: $100,000 or about $48/hr MGMA - Median UC salary in Utah: $108,235, or about $52/hr AAUCM - Average UC salary Nationally: $114,400 or $55/hr My limited work experience (~8 months) may decrease my salary or hourly pay by a bit... but by how much? I wish I knew. These numbers aren't 75th or 90th percentiles. These are medians and averages, which means that half of the UC PAs in Utah make MORE than that. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask for a median pay. I was offered much, much less. Because I'm newer, I would be willing to settle for a little less than median or average, but is there a point at which you might decide that the original offer is so low that it's not even worth trying to negotiate? I'm worried that I'm there. I have read you citing your lack of experience a few times throughout this thread. At what point do you feel that your experience would be consummate with the pay? Could you include a counter offer that would call for a raise from their current offer, to the median wage, when you reach the time frame at which you feel is appropriate to receive such pay? For example, let's say you feel that a PA with 18 months experience is worth $45/hr. So in my example/train of thought, could you put in your counter-offer the above noted pay scales, with the stipulation that since you will continue working in your primary care job gathering more experience while filling in for this company on their PRN offer. Since you are continuing to work full time, gaining more experience your worth will increase. You will need/require/request (what is the proper wording?) that your pay increase to $45/hr over the next 10 months, with further salary review every 6-12 months after...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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