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About SpikeDaCat

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  1. So, after expressing my deep interest in joining their group, it sounds like it would be best to inform them that a job change means walking away from $15k this month, then ask for that $15k as a signing bonus while also mentioning my intention to relocate... (with no real expectation that I will actually receive any kind of a signing/relocation bonus, especially not the entire $15,000.) Negotiations are not my favorite thing. *sigh* But they're important.
  2. Thank you. You are correct - In order for me to receive the $15k disbursement (which can ONLY go to student loans) from my current job, I need to submit a contract that says I will stay there until June 2018.... or I would have to repay 150% of what was disbursed. They're dead serious. The new job's loan repayment is most likely one lump sum of $50k after I have been there for 2 years. I doubt I would see any of it sooner. The clinic is owned by a Native American tribe, and I believe it's a government program for that. I also am really curious about the quarterly bonuses. I am extremely efficient, but have excellent bedside manner and great documentation, so I will have no problem getting the expected 80 visits per week and billing well for them. If the bonuses are to the tune of a few thousand dollars each quarter, then not getting big loan repayment disbursements sooner is ok as long as I can get something up front for relocation. You really think I could ask for $15k relocation? That seems like a lot. I mean, it would be wonderful, but wow. I don't think they need me THAT desperately... One thing I do plan to negotiate is the 3 month period of lower pay. I'm going to push for only 1 month because I'm a very fast learner and will not have the same learning curve a new grad would. At my current job, I was up to speed within a few weeks... seeing 30 per day.
  3. Ok - long post. Sorry. Here's the summary if you don't want to read it all: How much of a signing bonus is reasonable to ask for? Is $10k over the top? And the long version: I'm in the process of interviewing for a new position at an interventional pain management practice (not a pill factory - they wean people off). I have 5 years' experience, mostly in FP/UC, so I know my way around the exam room and EMRs, and am totally comfortable in the PA role. The odds of me receiving an offer are really good - they're expanding the practice and hiring 3-4 more PAs at once, and I've been invited to do the 2nd (working) interview on Tuesday. They haven't interviewed tons of candidates, and per the recruiter, they really liked me. :) Since I haven't received an offer yet, we haven't had any negotiations, but here's what was advertised (in a nutshell): $85k for the first 3 months, then $95k (which is more than the $40 per hour I'm making now) Quarterly productivity bonuses (don't currently get that) $50k loan repayment after 2 years (currently in a $30k/2y agreement... ish) Full medical/dental/retirement benefits (already have that) No call whatsoever (I take frequent call. I HATE HATE HATE call) About 20 patients per day (I currently do 24-30) Signing bonus available (never had that before) This job is about 35 miles from where I am now, but because it's in a downtown/urban area, the commute there and back is really nasty. Since I also hate long commutes and being stuck in rush hour traffic both directions, I'd want to move much closer. I am also hoping to buy a home soon. At my current job, I'm on the front end of a $30k loan repayment agreement. Nothing has been disbursed yet, and I don't have a formal employment contract, so I could still walk without a penalty. The only thing that makes that hard is that I would be receiving the first disbursement of $15,000 this month. If I change jobs, I'm effectively walking away from $15k. That really stings. Long term, this job is significantly better financially, but short term, it isn't. At all. In negotiations, would it be reasonable for me to tell the potential employer this, and request a $10k signing bonus to offset that loss? I'd use basically all of it it to help with a down payment and moving costs. Do you think that would be offensive to the employer? I'm paranoid of seeming to greedy and not getting the job because I asked for too much. Should I not tell them why I want it and just ask for it? Thoughts?
  4. Wait... maybe I'm just young and naive, but I don't quite see why anxiety/depression would be a problem. Are PAs not allowed to have any emotional issues?
  5. Thanks for the input. Lots to think about. I have an appointment with the new doc on the 6th. Whether or not he becomes my PCP will also depend on his comfort level and preferences, not just mine. If he would prefer not to, that's completely understandable. I'll ask for a reference and look elsewhere. But if he IS willing, great. Perhaps the bigger question should be: Can I trust the MAs and billing folks to respect my privacy? I would like to think so...
  6. So, I have some health issues which need to be followed by a PCP, but lately I'm feeling somewhat dissatisfied with the doc I've been seeing on-and-off for about 9 years. I think I am in the market for a new doc. This Thursday, there will be a new physician joining the group where I work, and I have already seen/treated some of his patients in the urgent care. They rave about him - saying he's very thorough, very smart, very nice, and basically everything I'm looking for in a new doc for myself. I googled him and found tons of positive reviews. I want him to be MY doctor, too. Ah, but wait. He's joining the group where I work, and will therefore be a colleague/supervising physician even though we will be working on different floors of the same building. Keep in mind that I do not have a gynecologist (or any other specialist), so I would be seeing him for, well, everything. But that's what I think I need, and that's the whole point of having a PCP, isn't it? What I can't decide is: would having a colleague as my PCP be just way too awkward, or is a floor apart enough distance to maintain professionalism? Thoughts?
  7. Ah, a thread is resurrected. I'll let you know how my story turned out. In mid-March, I landed a part-time (PRN) family practice/urgent care position in a great and growing clinic within 2 miles of my home. Although thrilled to have a few hours, I still needed to find another part- or full-time job to make ends meet. There were a few interviews which didn't lead to much until about two weeks ago when I had an interview with another (smaller) family practice clinic. Although they made me a part-time offer, I just never felt good about it. The next day, I got a call from the first employer, asking if I wanted to take three 10-hour days per week in the urgent care, in addition to still covering some evening and Saturday shifts. Thirty hours per week is full time at this company, so they were offering me full-time work! I can't tell you how excited I was. I graciously turned down the other family practice position and immediately began full-time urgent care work for my current employer. I. LOVE. IT. I can't tell you how happy I am with my new work arrangement. The people are great, urgent care can be fun, and you just can't beat my 1.8-mile commute. I'll admit that I probably should have asked for more pay, but I plan on renegotiating when I become eligible for benefits in a couple of months. Anyway, I'm pleased to report that my story has a happy ending. This is my dream job. It really is. :)
  8. I appreciate the supportive replies. Thanks. Work is so awkward and uncomfortable now that I would love to just walk away and never go back, but as Teasip correctly supposed, I very much need the income. The last PA who left (the guy I replaced) did have something else lined up, but was still planning on finishing his 2 weeks out when the doc one morning just told him to go home - he was done. He had patients on the schedule and everything. I fear the same may happen to me, so I have actually already cleaned out my desk to make leaving easier when it happens. When my SP told me he'd be letting me go, I asked why. I already knew he isn't making money on this clinic - he pays the mortgage on the building out of his own pocket, and I always knew that financially the clinic is a sinking ship. He says that he's going to bring on a full-time MD to help share expenses and build up the clinic... and that he doesn't think he's going to do the midlevel thing any more. His main reason for letting me go though? A lack of commitment in the past "month or so," defined by the fact that he needed someone who would always be there... implying I wasn't. In the past couple of weeks, yes, I have left early twice because of some health problems I'm having. I have no idea how I was supposed to handle it when I was having horrible stomach pains which made it impossible for me to focus - or stand up straight, for that matter. Yeah, I left early, and I went to the ER. Apparently that means I'm not committed, because he sent me accusatory texts while I was at the hospital. I knew that my accepting the urgent care job offer upset him a bit, even though I tried to explain more than once that it would not impact my working with him, and that there was no guarantee that they would ever offer me a full-time position. He also said that I've done some things he didn't agree with (which is his fault, if you ask me, because he gave me as a new grad way too much autonomy from day 1), but then admitted that that was improving. Knowing that I'm back on the job market, I asked him if he could, in good conscience, be a reference for me. He said he would be a "stellar" reference. Honestly, I'm not sure if I trust him though, and I don't know if I'm comfortable asking for a letter. Part of me wants to ask him what my incentive has been to devote my life to this position, and why I should have been more "committed." It certainly isn't the pay ($35/hr), it definitely was not the benefits (there are NONE), and although friendships with him or the staff are nice, those don't pay the bills. What did he expect? What more did he want out of me??
  9. Update: we negotiated up a little. Not as much as I had hoped, but I accepted an offer on Feb 1st. I notified my current SP that day that I would be working for them on my regular day off. However, the new bosses were eerily quiet until I finally got an email a week later saying that they changed their minds and decided to go a different route. They rescinded the offer. Again, I informed my SP. The next day, my SP told me he would be replacing me in the next couple of weeks. So now instead of having 2 jobs, I have none. To add insult to injury (or the other way around), the same week all of this was going on included two visits to the ER, and the loss of one of our cats. This has been one of the hardest and worst weeks in my life. This is a disaster, and I am a wreck.
  10. rcdavis - thanks. I think you're absolutely right, and I will be taking the job. I do very much appreciate everyone's advice and encouragement. I have learned a lot about contracts and negotiating through this experience, and that information is valuable to me. But I am indeed young in my career, and I know that this is just the beginning. As rcdavis pointed out, the offer is still darn good money... much better than the $7/hr I made scrubbing the most disgusting urinals ever in a long-neglected grocery store bathroom, much better than the $8/hr I made trying to keep the housewares department organized at Target, and much better than the $9/hr I made answering angry calls and emails in a food storage company's customer service department. Yeah, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Literally. I haven't forgotten. No, this is just fine for now, and I'm sure things will only get better from here. Thanks again everyone!
  11. Got a reply this morning... So, they're holding firm at $41. I'm a little miffed that he thinks the info I got from my "PA friends" is not accurate and not "actual data," when the fact is they ARE local, and the $42-$50 really is what they told me... but I also believe that he has spoken to many more urgent care PAs than I have. I suspect that he and I both pick and choose our data when it comes to pay: I presented data to him from AAPA, MGMA, and AAUCM which portrayed higher wages for UC PAs ($48-$55/hr), while not sharing data from other (less-reputable) sources which indicated that UT UC PA pay is lower - like in the $80-90k/yr range. I suspect that he does know of PAs working in UC who make what I am requesting, but would rather tell me about the lower-paid PAs to support his stance. However, I do not want to argue this point, as I do not think any degree of accusation or confrontation would work to my benefit. This reply strikes me as a "take it or leave it" situation. It sounds like they're done negotiating, and I'm not going to push my luck any further. ventana - I wish I could walk away to make a point, but I just don't think I have that much leverage. The implication is that there are plenty of other PAs/NPs who would happily take the offer as stated... and I believe him. It took me a year to find the position I currently have, so I know the UT PA market is saturated. Maybe in a few years I will see if I can relocate to an area that pays better, but right now I must stay in Utah, and I really need to get out of my current dead-end job ASAP. I think it would be unwise to turn this position down, especially since it is $6/hr more than I'm currently making, and there will be benefits when I become full-time (which I don't have now). However, instead of seeing this as great career-long position, in my mind it will be another stepping stone to something bigger and better down the road. I'm going to think about it for a few hours... draft a reply... and accept. I think.
  12. Thanks. This is suburban Utah, beginning part time, becoming full time later. Yes, I did talk to some UC PAs in Utah, who provided some good information. I don't know how much revenue they're bringing in, but I know that most of their clinics are very, very busy. So, I did something gutsy this morning. I replied as follows: I realize this was a pretty bold thing to do, but I was tired of dancing around and implying that they should pay me more... so as politely as possible, I laid it all out there and told them what I think is fair. I'm on pins and needles awaiting a reply...
  13. I am negotiating a contract with an UC chain, and we're down to pay considerations. The initial offer was $39/hr, which is way too low. I gave him three examples of hard data (AAPA, AAUCM, MGMA) that indicate that median pay is $50+/hr for urgent care PAs, and mentioned that local new grads 5 years ago report $42/hr starting UC pay. (I have 8 mos of very applicable, very autonomous experience.) He said he would take it all into consideration, look at the "bottom line" and get back to me. I just got the new contract, and the new offer is... wait for it... $41. Seriously??? I'm not sure how to reply. I do not want to walk away because that's still more than I'm making now (with benefits when I become FT, which I don't have now), and I feel like taking this job would open a lot of doors for me now and down the road. At the same time though, I don't want to set (or continue) a precedence of being underpaid. I was really hoping that they would split the difference and offer about $45/hr to start. Not so. My gut reaction is to reply and ask a few questions: 1. Why was I not offered more after demonstrating that the initial offer was very low compared to industry standards (and other new UC PAs)? Is there any wiggle room for, say, $2 more per hour? 2. Is this intended to be a temporary rate during my part-time "training period," and if I prove myself, what might the increase be when I become full-time? (He mentioned this possibility to me when I met with him on Monday) 3. The handbook says that raises will be in line with "industry standards." Based on that, and assuming my performance is satisfactory, how long would you expect it to take for me to be earning "median" pay? 3 years? 5 years? Ever?? Do I dare reply and ask some or all of these questions? Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  14. Just got back. Some of my concerns are related to the fact that they were using a full-time contract for a PRN (to start) position. For instance, I only have to put the new employer as the priority when I become full-time with them. The contract doesn't specify that, so he will edit it. I asked for there to be some kind of clause stating that I would become full-time, but he said no, because it depends on my performance, and there's no guarantee. I forgot to strike out the noncompete clause. I'll just cross it off before I sign the revised contract. Regarding malpractice, he states that their claims-made coverage includes prior-acts, and that they cover it - no additional expense to me. I did not ask about CME benefits or required trainings for work, as those mostly apply when (or if) I become full-time. I'll discuss them later. Also forgot to ask about overtime pay... but once again, that won't matter until I'm full-time. When it comes to pay, I showed him my three sources - AAPA, MGMA, and AAUCM, which all state median is $50+/hr. He said that he would take those into consideration and a look at their bottom line and come back with a better offer. He also said that we could start at one rate, do a performance eval and possibly then increase pay after the 60-day trial probationary period is up. I'd prefer to not do it that way, since they're not paying any benefits for me while I'm PRN, but I didn't want to get confrontational. He took my printouts of typical UC PA salary, but he didn't throw out any solid numbers, so I'm not sure what the new contract will say. We shall see. They want me on Mondays, if possible. The question is, who will cover me? I don't think I can trade days off with the NP, because I know he works (for the same UC chain) on Mondays. My SP works full-time in a local ED and has a crazy schedule. The UC boss asked again if I would be willing to relocate about 70 miles from where I currently live, if that's where a FT opening arises. I told him that it would have to wait a few months since I don't have the money to move and set up a place right now (I have no furniture or anything). He actually said that they might be able to help with that. Cool. All in all, I think it went pretty well. Yes, I forgot a couple of things, but I don't think that will be a big deal to fix. I'll probably tell my SP today that I'm going to start moonlighting for the UC on my days off. I don't think he would mind that. I don't think I'll tell him that I may become full-time with the UC if I'm as awesome as they hope I am...
  15. Thanks for the reply, deborah212 and ventana! Regarding malpractice, I discovered/realized that I never signed a real contract with my current employer (this is my first PA job). I am currently on my SP's insurance, but I highly doubt he will want to pay for tail coverage for me, as it is so expensive. It is possible that I'm just not understanding how malpractice insurance works, but I thought prior acts coverage at the new job would work instead of a tail at the old job. Is that not true? (Honest question - I really don't know.) Because the PT/PRN status is only temporary until I become full-time (when the next opening comes along), I am negotiating for everything as though I am full-time. PRN doesn't get any benefits whatsoever, so the only reason I bring the CME and other stuff up is because I want the contract to be accurate for when I transition to full-time. So yes, if $1500 with 5 days is comparable, then that's what I'll ask for. As per pay, I'm on neither coast, so I'm not sure what you mean. The AAPA median pay for Utah urgent care is $100,000/yr, or about $50/hr. Nationally, MGMA says $108,000 per year, and AAUCM says about $110,000 per year. PAs in the area report (new grad) starting pay of about $42/hr, but that was ~5 years ago, and they were fresh out of school.
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