sartort Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 bls.gov has pay rates by regions within a state and by percentiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I started fresh out of PA school in 2004 at a walk-in clinic/er and was paid $45/hr as a part-time wage. No benefits. I was an employee and was able to take ACLS free, plus time and a half on holidays. I work 16 hours per week. PAChristine: I just read an article regarding pay for males and females and the biggest mistakes females make in negotiations is settling for a low salary, which sets the stage for the rest of your career. I would set your sites on median pay, or at least add up the three median hourly wages/divide by three and you get $51. Ask for that, no less. Do not undersell yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thanks all for the information, encouragement, and points to ponder. One more thing I'd like to ask - since they offered me $39, and the median is about $50 - is that just too big a gap to bridge? I worry that if I ask for what I'm worth, they'll kindly thank me for my time, and that will be it. If they don't want to negotiate, I would be ok to walk away... if it weren't for the fact that the offer they made me is still $4/hr more than I'm currently earning, and it would have benefits (which I lack now). I feel like it would be a poor choice to reject something that is a step up... even if it's not nearly as big a step as it should be. I guess you could say that the lousy pay at this, my first job, really is already affecting the rest of my career. I contacted the Utah APA to ask what the market is like here, to get some real-world local opinions on what I'm really worth. The executive director responded by forwarding my question to several local UC PAs that he knows, but I haven't heard back from any of them yet. Aside from my own anxiety, there really is no hurry here. I still don't have a copy of the employee handbook for my potential employer, and I will wait to discuss my concerns and requests with them until I have the whole package in front of me. I'm just impatient. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbebe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I started fresh out of PA school in 2004 at a walk-in clinic/er and was paid $45/hr as a part-time wage. Nice, I am making what you earned 9 years ago. I have been working part-time/per diem in the ER for the past two years and still get paid $45/hr... but I work in NYC. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Nice, I am making what you earned 9 years ago. I have been working part-time/per diem in the ER for the past two years and still get paid $45/hr... but I work in NYC. :/ I started out with 2 part time jobs..the urgent care at $45/hr and a family practice job at $36/hr. At the end of my four years at the FP job I could only get up to $42/hr. I eventually got a "full-time" urgent-care job working 10 or 11 12/hr shifts per month, and worked a clause in that contract that I had the freedom to continue my other urgent care job and did some locums ER. The locums ER paid $50/hr. My new job was $51 with full benefits, but it ended up being a very challenging job regarding the administration, the work was great. The 3 years there between all the jobs I earned > $100,000/yr. Then I was offered a full-time job back in FP, my kids were done with college by then, so I negotiated a very nice salary >$115,000/yr with benefits. I said I could not possibly take a pay cut between all the jobs I had, and it all worked out in my favor. PAChristine: $50 an hour is not too much of a leap. Take your data with you when you discuss salary. Your prospective employer knows the MGMA data and likely the AAUCM data. If they are members of AAUCM they know what they are doing. You will get low-balled. Use you competent and confident adult voice when you negotiate and lay out to them all the skills you have. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Anyone working out of Miami, Florida? Curious to know the salary in Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 24, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks all for the information, encouragement, and points to ponder. One more thing I'd like to ask - since they offered me $39, and the median is about $50 - is that just too big a gap to bridge? I worry that if I ask for what I'm worth, they'll kindly thank me for my time, and that will be it. If they don't want to negotiate, I would be ok to walk away... if it weren't for the fact that the offer they made me is still $4/hr more than I'm currently earning, and it would have benefits (which I lack now). I feel like it would be a poor choice to reject something that is a step up... even if it's not nearly as big a step as it should be. I guess you could say that the lousy pay at this, my first job, really is already affecting the rest of my career. I contacted the Utah APA to ask what the market is like here, to get some real-world local opinions on what I'm really worth. The executive director responded by forwarding my question to several local UC PAs that he knows, but I haven't heard back from any of them yet. Aside from my own anxiety, there really is no hurry here. I still don't have a copy of the employee handbook for my potential employer, and I will wait to discuss my concerns and requests with them until I have the whole package in front of me. I'm just impatient. A lot. well you now have leverage to your first job if you want to play them against the new job...... can even share the offer with them and state they need to beat it if they want you to stay.... of just that you have an offer and are considering it, but would like to stay but need to negotiate a new salary.... be prepared for it to go over like a lead ballon, so you will have to pleasantly persist over the next few months. I did this once with a job, and won by getting a great offer from both, but it took a number of months. course looking back I likely made the wrong choice and left..... oh well we all learn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Finally got the handbook this morning. 42 pages to review. Doc is asking if I still need to meet with him. Uh, yes. First thing to figure out is not pay, but whether I can even negotiate two jobs for a while. If we work that out, THEN I'll bring up pay. Current SP can't afford me as it is. He is already not turning a profit at this clinic. He works full-time in an ER, and does the FP thing almost as a hobby or service for his patients. The plan was that after my first year, pay would change from hourly to a percentage. I think he and I both know that we are nowhere near busy enough for that to work for me. I believe he is in denial that I might leave for greener pastures. This negotiating and the secrecy (at work) are wearing me out a bit. This has actually been in the works since early October. I can't wait until whatever is going to happen, happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMT2PA Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 To the poster above..where at? South Florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMT2PA Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Anyone working out of Miami, Florida? Curious to know the salary in Miami. Posted above.... "New grads make about $45 hr first day on the job. Matter of fact, a good friend of mine is making 125k and he has been a PA for 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Update: Just spoke with someone at the local PA program. He told me he *thinks* that some of the more recent grads who went into urgent care are/were making something in the range of the mid-to-high 80's (about $40-43/hr). If that's the case, the $39/hr I was offered makes more sense... but is still quite low. If $40-43/hr is what others made as new grads, I think I want about $45. The benefits are ok, but not fantastic. He said he would send my contact information to a few of these former students, and ask them talk to me about what the standard or average pay is in the area, since they probably know better than he does. Here's hoping I hear from someone soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 25, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 25, 2013 Current SP can't afford me as it is. He is already not turning a profit at this clinic. He works full-time in an ER, and does the FP thing almost as a hobby or service for his patients. The plan was that after my first year, pay would change from hourly to a percentage. I think he and I both know that we are nowhere near busy enough for that to work for me. I believe he is in denial that I might leave for greener pastures. be VERY careful with this thought.... "the clinic is going broke" is commonly what is said when the doc is paying themselves too much I have seen doc's making in the 70-90% for their field complaining that they can't afford to keep the lights on.... they just use this as the easy answer for paying people less. The fact of the matter is you bring in far more money they you cost so you are making him money - you are a revenue generator, not a cost center.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Got a couple of replies from UC PAs in the area. It seems like they all started (fresh out of school) at $42/hr, but in every case, that was at least 3-5 years ago. So that WAS the going rate, but what about now? I'm just going to assume that it's a little higher. My target is $45+ with clear potential for increases on a regular basis. I'll probably ask for $48, but be willing to settle for $45. I am scheduled to meet with the boss first thing Monday morning, so I'm trying to get all of my ducks in a row. I think I'll save discussing pay until very last, after we have everything else nailed down. I sure hope they can be reasonable and pay me what I'm worth. I'll be so glad when this is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyus Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I want to say that this thread has been a great example of what I've been looking for as a student. I feel like negotiating is something I'm not going to be use to and I've seen a lot of examples on the board of new grads being low balled. Seeing how these circumstances are being handled is a huge help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 Update: we negotiated up a little. Not as much as I had hoped, but I accepted an offer on Feb 1st. I notified my current SP that day that I would be working for them on my regular day off. However, the new bosses were eerily quiet until I finally got an email a week later saying that they changed their minds and decided to go a different route. They rescinded the offer. Again, I informed my SP. The next day, my SP told me he would be replacing me in the next couple of weeks. So now instead of having 2 jobs, I have none. To add insult to injury (or the other way around), the same week all of this was going on included two visits to the ER, and the loss of one of our cats. This has been one of the hardest and worst weeks in my life. This is a disaster, and I am a wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebecker Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Seems to be something almost criminal to all of that. Sorry to hear that things turned out that way, pretty much sucks all around. Keep your chin up - still plenty of demand out there for someone with your skill set. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasip Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Christine, hang in there. My personal thought is that if it were meant to be, it would have happened. With regard to your current position being pulled from you, I'm sorry to hear that. I do believe that things happen for a reason and are not left to chance. When a door is closed, a window will be opened.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 PAChristine: That really sucks. It can be brutal out there. I look at it this way though, that your FP supervisor was looking for a way to downsize anyway, and now he has a reason. My bet is he will not replace you. It is almost impossible to replace you in two weeks. I would be packing up and leaving now, as you know you are no longer needed......I would not wait out the two weeks. Staff can become horrible when they know you were planning on leaving for something else and might treat you unprofessionally. And as far as the company that hired you and then reneged.......I would warn other PAs to not work for them and tell them about their reputation as a bait and switch company, unethical and underhanded. They were probably stringing along more than one candidate, and found someone who would work really cheap. Life will get better. This has happened to many PAs before and you will bounce back. Take time to reflect, reassess and reorient yourself to what you want to do, what kind of PA practice you would like to have, be open to new opportunities and look for the silver lining in the clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasip Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Paula, with regard to packing up now and leaving? She may need the income, regardless of the amount, that would be provided over the ensuing two weeks. With regard to being treated unprofessionally, it can go both ways, as you pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Paula, with regard to packing up now and leaving? She may need the income, regardless of the amount, that would be provided over the ensuing two weeks. With regard to being treated unprofessionally, it can go both ways, as you pointed out. For Christine's sake, I hope so. 2 weeks income and time to clean up the desk, say goodbyes, and hopefully leave on a good note, with a letter of recommendation from the SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDaCat Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 I appreciate the supportive replies. Thanks. Work is so awkward and uncomfortable now that I would love to just walk away and never go back, but as Teasip correctly supposed, I very much need the income. The last PA who left (the guy I replaced) did have something else lined up, but was still planning on finishing his 2 weeks out when the doc one morning just told him to go home - he was done. He had patients on the schedule and everything. I fear the same may happen to me, so I have actually already cleaned out my desk to make leaving easier when it happens. When my SP told me he'd be letting me go, I asked why. I already knew he isn't making money on this clinic - he pays the mortgage on the building out of his own pocket, and I always knew that financially the clinic is a sinking ship. He says that he's going to bring on a full-time MD to help share expenses and build up the clinic... and that he doesn't think he's going to do the midlevel thing any more. His main reason for letting me go though? A lack of commitment in the past "month or so," defined by the fact that he needed someone who would always be there... implying I wasn't. In the past couple of weeks, yes, I have left early twice because of some health problems I'm having. I have no idea how I was supposed to handle it when I was having horrible stomach pains which made it impossible for me to focus - or stand up straight, for that matter. Yeah, I left early, and I went to the ER. Apparently that means I'm not committed, because he sent me accusatory texts while I was at the hospital. I knew that my accepting the urgent care job offer upset him a bit, even though I tried to explain more than once that it would not impact my working with him, and that there was no guarantee that they would ever offer me a full-time position. He also said that I've done some things he didn't agree with (which is his fault, if you ask me, because he gave me as a new grad way too much autonomy from day 1), but then admitted that that was improving. Knowing that I'm back on the job market, I asked him if he could, in good conscience, be a reference for me. He said he would be a "stellar" reference. Honestly, I'm not sure if I trust him though, and I don't know if I'm comfortable asking for a letter. Part of me wants to ask him what my incentive has been to devote my life to this position, and why I should have been more "committed." It certainly isn't the pay ($35/hr), it definitely was not the benefits (there are NONE), and although friendships with him or the staff are nice, those don't pay the bills. What did he expect? What more did he want out of me?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasip Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 The picture isn't clear to you now, and possibly never will be, but this sounds like a good, long term move for you. Keep head up high, give your best effort for however much time is left, and keep an eye out for the "open window" to pass through to reach the next stage of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iman Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Ahh Christine i so much know and understand where you coming from !!! that stomach pain is giving the whole picture !!! i bet you were stressed and not happy at all.. believe me you will find your way .. never loose hope and i am sure you will find the right fit for you... everything happen for a reason ..this is what i keep telling myself everyday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 no wonder some physicians are upset with the PA profession, doing the same work for peanuts. city workers earn more as initial salaries. never lowball your worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgblumm Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I have started at 55.00 per houir on LI, NY and will ask for a five dollar a hour raise based on my productivity in 6 months. Bob Blumm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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