jmj11 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 What Do You Think About This Article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdenning Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Really???? I'm REALLY tired of hearing about the NPs "masters degree." They make it sound like you do 2 years of pre reqs and into PA school you go. The majority of us have an undergraduate degree or program PLUS thousands of hours of clinical experience before starting PA school. The article might as well have included the usual nursing fluff about how nurses are the only ones capable of "holistic" care. The way I see it, when you look at how much "nursing theory" must go in to that Master's, it leaves less room for MEDICINE. Oh and by the way where's the online PA program???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Comedy Gold....!!! :heheh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sartort Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Seriously, can some PAs start writing articles? Maybe emphasize the thousands of healthcare hours most students have when they enter school, and leave out a few "sometimes"'s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Seriously, can some PAs start writing articles? Maybe emphasize the thousands of healthcare hours most students have when they enter school, and leave out a few "sometimes"'s. No... Because it would be a LIE... Unless these articles were only refering to either the students that entered 7-10 yrs ago... or only the students in a small minority of the programs that still hold on to Dr. Stead's vision. As MOST PA students today... are young females WITHOUT the extensive experience you speak of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpSite Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Really???? . Oh and by the way where's the online PA program???? I believe NDSU. I looked at this program after a patient's dad told me about it and was SHOCKED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIndubitably Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Dangit. I did all this work in undergrad, post-grad and clinical settings for nothing...shoot! Haha. I guess will stay the anomaly as a minority male figure ;-) Love this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted November 14, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 14, 2012 darn that is funny so far off the mark but this is what the Nursing Lobby does so well say things enough times and people start to beleive them I HATE the degree creap - but it is real and we need a clincal doctorate degree to put an end to this rubbish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsfelder0417 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I wonder how many people actually believe this crap and stroll into a PA admissions dept. thinking they can just cruise right in and be done in only 2 years right off of the street, only to have reality come crashing down on their shoulders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJlovesPA Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Wow this article is not true at all. These day, it is very very competitive to get into master program for PA. The article sounds like NP has a higher and better education and harder to get into which is not the case. I personally know a NP who finished her nursing degree, work for 2 years and apply to master program and just got in without a doubt. No GRE, no interview like those pre PA students have to go through. And now, 99% candidate have to hold a bachelor degree just to get consider for interview. And the length to complete PA school is no where less than NP route at all. We still have to finish bachelor degree, get some crazy hours experience to compete with others applicants, a lot of them also has research experience. I dont think nursing students do a lot of research like people hold Bio, biochem or chem degree. More over, the article keep emphasizing that NPs have master degree, what about PA? We don't hold a bachelor degree anymore, or at least this generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIndubitably Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I wonder how many people actually believe this crap and stroll into a PA admissions dept. thinking they can just cruise right in and be done in only 2 years right off of the street, only to have reality come crashing down on their shoulders. I think the number is surprisingly high. I know in a class I taught, there were four students preparing to graduate and already getting applications ready for CASPA. Only one of them had HCE hours while the rest were ONLY applying to schools that didn't have HCE as a requirement. I believe we are lining up for the "more healthcare, subpar care theory". It just sucks for those that have bust their *** to even get an interview and their counterparts are taking a less than adequate road to get in and get in. I know every situation is different but this trend is quite alarming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkrumm Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 UGH. I sent a comment: In reference to this article: http://www.getarealdegree.com/career/which-career-is-right-for-you-nurse-practitioner-vs-physician-assistant/ I am a physician assistant, and I have some suggestions to improve the accuracy of this article. 1. The vast majority of PA programs require a bachelor's degree. 2. Most require a certain number of previous health care experience hours, some up to 5000. 3. There is exactly one online PA program. It is not well respected. It is not worth mentioning. 4. All PA students participate in a year of various hands-on clinical rotations, just like 3rd-year medical students do. 5. PAs do *everything* NPs do, though there are more PAs assisting in surgery than NPs. Patients may choose to see a PA as their primary care provider. 6. PAs are "supervised" by physicians. This does not mean doctors are looking over our shoulders. It means they simply have to co-sign our charts and be "available" to answer questions. This can be on-site or even just by telephone hundreds of miles away. Many PAs function with an enormous amount of autonomy. 7. And finally, NPs are trained under the nursing model; PAs are trained under the medical model (i.e., just as physicians are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 As more PA programs come into existence to meet demand, it will be interesting to see how many of them maintain the high standards vs. those that simply go for the cash grab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterIndubitably Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 As more PA programs come into existence to meet demand, it will be interesting to see how many of them maintain the high standards vs. those that simply go for the cash grab. Indeed sir. I'm not even a PA student yet and am very weary of the storm ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 Yeah, I wrote them too. Does anyone out there doubt that we don't have a huge PR problem. I was told 30 years ago that it would get better . . . just we need to do one on one education with our patients. I estimate that I have "educated" almost 30,000 patients (I averaging seeing 1,000 new patients a year) and my friends, it hasn't worked. I see my retirement within the decade and I am weary of this battle. But I hope you younger PAs and students will come in an really change the course of PA history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsfelder0417 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thank you for putting in the time j. I am going to continue carrying the torch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanna.nola Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Wow, 80K just for ordering medical supplies??? Sounds like the smart path is PA. As an NP, you'd have to actually diagnose and manage patients' illnesses. Seems strange that clinics and hospitals would be willing to pay PAs and NPs the same when PAs do things that require minimal education. But ordering medical supplies for 80K--sign me up! (if you are upset by this statement, please reread and add sarcasm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The article appears to have been taken down. I just tried to link it through both links provided here and there is "Nothing Found".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted November 14, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 14, 2012 The article appears to have been taken down. I just tried to link it through both links provided here and there is "Nothing Found".... Same with me. Someone probably realized they got called on their trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted November 14, 2012 Moderator Share Posted November 14, 2012 yup, taking it down was a positive step! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treejay Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Online PA Program: http://www.fammed.wisc.edu/pa-program/distance-education Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I'm going to make a plug for the PA distance education program offered by the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. I was their first graduate in 2004, passed my PANCE first time, passed my first PANRE, and had approximately 18 years of health care experience before acceptance into the program. My experience was in public health in the settings of rural areas of Wisconsin and Minnesota providing services for public health programs such as WIC, healthy start infant and pre-natal programs, working with children with special health care needs, clinical dietitian for rural clinics in Minn, was on the Healthy People 2000 WI state committee, worked with 11 native american tribes in WI for nine years, and worked with a physician researcher from UW for a summer while she was researching childhood obesity on the WI reservations. Now, the distance program....... it is not online like you might think. I was required to have the same entrance requirements as all students, applied, had to take a few more pre-reqs before I could even qualify to apply for the pilot project. I had the same interview as all other applicants. It was competitive. My classes were the exact same classes as my campus co-horts. The first summer session was on campus consisting of gross anatomy and dissection, physical exam classes. Then, I took the didactic portion part-time for two years. Every day I would log on to see a streaming video of the lectures that occurred the day before. I could see the professor and student. I was able to ask questions to the professor via our blackboard system. I traveled to campus 2-3 times a semester (200 miles) for all the labs or workshops that were required. My tests were proctored by my local librarian and were required to be taken within 1-2 days of the on-campus students. The last year was spent in clinical rotations that were arranged to be close to my home community, so the focus was on rural health care. I had all the usual rotations. The distance program proved to be successful and has continued because it works and one of the goals of the program is to place PAs is rural and underserved areas. Mu first job was on an Indian reservation and I was the sole provider there for 4 years, with my SP coming 2x a month. I still work in rural health care, left the rez for three years for working at ERs and Urgent care at CAH's, then wandered back to the rez for full-time family practice. Distance PA program is much different than on-line program, and possibly different than the NP online programs. Times are changing regarding how education is being provided to PAs. I agree that there should be a requirement for prior health care experience, and my experience in public health and nutrition was helpful, but a "medical" health care experience would have been more helpful. I love being a PA, I believe myself to be competent and learn new things every single day, and love learning. (Hate our title, though!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkrumm Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Nice! I'm sorry to have dismissed the online program without a thought. It sounds like it's got a lot going for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amelia Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Isn't it possible that part of the PR problem could be that a slew of experienced PAs are constantly complaining about the admissions standards today and how it is ruining the profession? How can we expect other people to take PAs seriously when people within our own profession are saying that new graduates didn't have admission standards that were worth anything? At every program acceptance rates are low and even programs that don't directly "require" health care hours are not accepting students that are incapable of becoming good physician assistants. I work with some wonderful PAs right now and MANY of them are "young women" who didn't have 5000 hours of healthcare experience going into graduate school. Does that mean they weren't prepared for school? No. Does that mean they may have had to work harder to make up for some of the work experience their classmates had? Yes. But don't assume that health experience in a position like a CNA or EMT or even MA going into graduate school automatically makes a good health care provider. Because I can send you about 12 PAs in our ACO that would prove otherwise- including providers that went into school with loads of HCE who you wouldn't let your worst enemy receive health advice from and providers who had little HCE who routinely get employee of the year and statewide awards for their devotion to quality healthcare. That article was insulting, but so is a lot of the stuff said on this forum for recent PA graduates and current students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsfelder0417 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I don't believe the senior PA's are lamenting all of those coming in with little or no HCE. I believe that they are saying that experienced Pre-PAs generally can hit the ground running so-to-speak, as they have a solid foundation coming into school, which can definitely give a better end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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