British Health Care System in Crisis

[sas5814]

I think everyone that works in health care knows the inherent flaws in our system. Often socialized care is touted as the cure so it interests me when I see these kinds of articles. I read, essentially, the same story in 4 different places but this is the only one that wasn't behind a soft pay wall.

I am an N of 1 but I see commonalities in the social care systems. My references are the military, Medicaid, and the VA. When health care is free people often treat it like it has no value and the system gets overwhelmed and starts to collapse under its own weight. Patients demand everything because "it is free", a term that makes me froth at the mouth when I hear it.

If there is a near perfect health care system out there I haven't seen it yet. Socialized health care  either becomes an unbearable financial burden or rations care. Pay for service we all understand. I wish I had the answer.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/25/a-and-e-nhs-long-term-care-disabled-people

[ventana]

I think there should be basic health care avail to all.  This is the fire escort level not a Lamborghini.  
 

it is the simple basics that saves lives. Not million dollar high tech interventions.  
 

Also we need to not through words around to instill fear. 
we need socialized health insurance.   Not socialized health care. 
if I work harder I should be paid more.  

[sas5814]

43 minutes ago, ventana said:

we need socialized health insurance.   Not socialized health care.

This is something I discuss almost daily. When veterans get mad because they can't get what they want (instead of what they need) I tell them VA is like their health insurance company. Nobody gets everything they want and what you can have is based on a set of rules and guidelines.

Probably the most common complaint is about rewriting prescriptions people get from outside providers. They will see a pulmonologist who prescribes a $500/month inhaler and they want one of us to re-write it. 1) I don't prescribe for problems I'm not managing and 2) there are 6 other formulary meds available.

NO! I want this! (usually followed by a rant about their service. I'm sympathetic but I am a 3x deployed disabled vet too. It has never been an excuse to act like an asshat.) 

So, as you said, some kind of basic universal health care is possible if you manage expectations.

I'm climbing out of the rabbit hole now.

[SedRate]

1 hour ago, ventana said:

I think there should be basic health care avail to all.  This is the fire escort level not a Lamborghini.  
 

it is the simple basics that saves lives. Not million dollar high tech interventions.  
 

Also we need to not through words around to instill fear. 
we need socialized health insurance.   Not socialized health care. 
if I work harder I should be paid more.  

 

3 hours ago, sas5814 said:

When health care is free people often treat it like it has no value and the system gets overwhelmed and starts to collapse under its own weight. Patients demand everything because "it is free", a term that makes me froth at the mouth when I hear it.

If there is a near perfect health care system out there I haven't seen it yet. Socialized health care  either becomes an unbearable financial burden or rations care. Pay for service we all understand. I wish I had the answer.

Yep, at the direction we're headed, I think something is needed. But I think other changes need to happen in our society for any change to really make sense.

At the risk of sounding something like an extremist or conspiracy theorist, we also need an overhaul of consumer marketing and restaurant portions. No more food, beer, or soda commercials and have a max on calories in one plate. If you want to eat more than, let's say, 2k calories in one plate, you can order a second plate. (Look up the story behind McDonald's marketing creation of Super sized meals and kids meals.) Ok, I think I'm ready for the onslaught of criticisms... Lol

[Boatswain2PA]

Healthcare is, and will always be, rationed.

We can ration it by who can afford it what.

We can ration it by government bureaucrats who decides who gets what (yes, that means "DEATH PANELS!") and who pays for what.

We can pay insurance companies to ration it for us.

Or any mixture of the above. 

But it is, and will forever be, rationed.
 

[iconic]

18 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Healthcare is, and will always be, rationed.

We can ration it by who can afford it what.

We can ration it by government bureaucrats who decides who gets what (yes, that means "DEATH PANELS!") and who pays for what.

We can pay insurance companies to ration it for us.

Or any mixture of the above. 

But it is, and will forever be, rationed.
 

The problem is that Americans have not yet realized this and expect to receive every possible intervention to prolong their live; quality of life be damned 

[SedRate]

17 minutes ago, Boatswain2PA said:

Healthcare is, and will always be, rationed.

We can ration it by who can afford it what.

We can ration it by government bureaucrats who decides who gets what (yes, that means "DEATH PANELS!") and who pays for what.

We can pay insurance companies to ration it for us.

Or any mixture of the above. 

But it is, and will forever be, rationed.
 

Interesting to hear it put this way but you make a great point. 

[Boatswain2PA]

18 minutes ago, iconic said:

The problem is that Americans have not yet realized this and expect to receive every possible intervention to prolong their live; quality of life be damned 

Americans don't know the differences between a boy and a girl anymore.  Can't really expect them to understand slightly more complicated things like healthcare distribution.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Boatswain2PA

[ventana]

About our system. 
brand new study

we are broken 

 

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Healthcare expenditures in US are higher.  No duh.  We are  the wealthiest nation on earth, so I'm sure we spend more money on botox, chiropractors, and "gender transition" than anyone.  Caitlynn Jenner probably spends more on Botox and other "healthcare" than many 3rd world nations spend in total (actual) healthcare (vaccines, clean water, etc).

We have the lowest life expectancy at birth because we have a (relatively) small (but growing) population who avoids healthcare entirely and engage in drug-induced risky behavior that frequently results in early death.  Here's a few of them 

Meanwhile, society looks the other way....

Obesity is linked to multiple chronic conditions, but certainly not caused by our healthcare system (although folks who like to bash on American healthcare "system" likes to link the two). 

Do Americans "see less physicians" because we have a robust corps of mid-level providers that drive much of our primary care?  The devil is in the details, but the bias there is obvious.

But Americans get colorectal and breast screenings, while avoiding a (now) useless shot.  Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[kettle]

2 hours ago, ventana said:

About our system. 
brand new study

we are broken 

 

 

I'm all about studies but link to full study. Is it free of bias? Who funded it? Does the author have political leanings or political affiliations?

There are studies out there that are good and bad.....

[Boatswain2PA]

For those who think that socialized medicine (or socialized anything) would suddenly solve all our problems...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-nurses-strike-strikes-pressure-national-health-service-inflation-economy/

[ventana]

Let’s talk apples to apples. 
 

britian has a socialize health care system. 
I have not heard a single person ever state we need this here. 
 

we need universal health insurance.  Single payer.  
 

I will continue to work for myself not the gov’t.  

[Boatswain2PA]

We work for whomever pays us.

Most healthcare expenditures in US comes from CMS.  That's why we all follow the CMS rules, even when they ate stoopid ("pain is 5th vital sign", drowning people with sepsis, etc).

Single payor means we work for one entity...the one who writes the checks.

And if that single payor is the government....that pretty much equates to socialism.

 

[SedRate]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:43 AM, Boatswain2PA said:

For those who think that socialized medicine (or socialized anything) would suddenly solve all our problems...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-nurses-strike-strikes-pressure-national-health-service-inflation-economy/

Yikes 

[CAAdmission]

On 2/1/2023 at 10:02 AM, ventana said:

britian has a socialize health care system. 
I have not heard a single person ever state we need this here. 

Bernie? AOC? 

I'm sure you have heard someone say it. 

 

[Billdog29]

I lived and worked in Germany for nearly two decades and I noticed the general contentment of healthcare workers and patients with that country’s healthcare insurance system. It is by all means not perfect, but runs roughly 85% approval in the general public. It is both rationed healthcare and gov’t subsidized (“free”) healthcare. They have three branches of insurance: basic (funded by social security) for medically necessary treatment, mandatory public (funded by employer and employee), and private (optional, ultra Lamborghini coverage). I only used the basic and public coverage for all my needs, and hardly paid more than $400 for any procedure - ever.
 

healthcare workers are overworked with the system: people go to see the doctor with the simplest of symptoms because it’s free. But education is free, so these professionals are not further burdened by school debt. And there are simply a lot more of them.
 

Further: the “Artzt” is a masters-degree level trained professional, and they run primary care clinics autonomously.  It works perfectly well in the entire German-speaking world (Germany, Austria, Switzerland). 
 

There are some things we could learn from that system without becoming outright “Socialists” (for those who fear the ideology). 

[sas5814]

10 hours ago, Billdog29 said:

healthcare workers are overworked with the system: people go to see the doctor with the simplest of symptoms because it’s free.

This has been my primary frustration with "free" healthcare. Mom drags in 5 kids because one has a runny nose and she just wants the other 4 checked out. It makes me want to scream.

 

10 hours ago, Billdog29 said:

But education is free, so these professionals are not further burdened by school debt.

I lived in Germany for a couple of years and my recollection is higher education is a meritocracy. Yes it is free but, if you want to be a physician, you are going to compete for that opportunity. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

10 hours ago, Billdog29 said:

There are some things we could learn from that system without becoming outright “Socialists”

I think you really touch on the bigger issue. Our system has a lot of flaws but there are still aspects that are useful. Canada, Britain, Germany all have systems that have useful aspects. The discussion(s) get bogged down in an "all or nothing" mentality.

[ventana]

2 hours ago, sas5814 said:

This has been my primary frustration with "free" healthcare. Mom drags in 5 kids because one has a runny nose and she just wants the other 4 checked out. It makes me want to scream.

 

I lived in Germany for a couple of years and my recollection is higher education is a meritocracy. Yes it is free but, if you want to be a physician, you are going to compete for that opportunity. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

I think you really touch on the bigger issue. Our system has a lot of flaws but there are still aspects that are useful. Canada, Britain, Germany all have systems that have useful aspects. The discussion(s) get bogged down in an "all or nothing" mentality.

your point of useless visits...

This is an LPN or RN level visit pure and simple....  medics and EMT-A could also do it.

Call me for the sick patient.