Healthcare in the News

[ArmyPA]

43 minutes ago, ANESMCR said:

That’s some top data there from Blaze Media. The medically astute applaud your research. This really makes me think outside the box. 

Per the article and testimony; One girl grew up in “an echo chamber of far left ideology” and the other “found jesus after a suicide attempt which ameliorated her suffering promoting her to de-transition and accept her ‘woman-hood’”. 
 

Oh my GAWD. 

Maybe if the MSM or healthcare establishment would even ADMIT that there is a portion  of adolescents who identify as trans who later regret it or change their mind…often after irreversible chemical or surgical interventions, then you wouldn’t have to go to the blaze to hear about it. No instead those of (what did you call it, far left ideology) viscously bully and attack anyone who dares go public with their story if they regret transitioning.
There were plenty of links above to the nhs study but you of course decide to ignore that because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

personally I will call you whatever you want, i will gladly call you susan or billy or zim or xe or phil. Eventually i fear there will be more and more teens and twenty somethings who regret transitioning and there will be many ‘progressive’ providers on the wrong end of some nasty lawsuits. i personally will not be one of them. 

[ANESMCR]

29 minutes ago, ArmyPA said:

Maybe if the MSM or healthcare establishment would even ADMIT that there is a portion  of adolescents who identify as trans who later regret it or change their mind…often after irreversible chemical or surgical interventions, then you wouldn’t have to go to the blaze to hear about it. No instead those of (what did you call it, far left ideology) viscously bully and attack anyone who dares go public with their story if they regret transitioning.
There were plenty of links above to the nhs study but you of course decide to ignore that because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

personally I will call you whatever you want, i will gladly call you susan or billy or zim or xe or phil. Eventually i fear there will be more and more teens and twenty somethings who regret transitioning and there will be many ‘progressive’ providers on the wrong end of some nasty lawsuits. i personally will not be one of them. 

Ha. Viciously bully and attack! Now that’s classic. Especially when we’re discussing trans rights, or the removal of said rights for whichever various reason you believe deserves merit. Clearly you ignore one side of the coin. You assume I have a “side” and that I didn’t read the other links like whomever else did interested. So I guess I’ll just call you emotionally fearful. 
 

I’d be rich if I got paid for every patient regretful they had an elective CCY. I’ve had people upset I referred them to hepatobiliary for a whipple bc it gave them pancreatic insufficiency. Why is this such a foreign concept to you? Also, do you work directly with, and/or prescribe/treat transgender patients/gender dysphoria? No. I didn’t think so. Doubt anyone on this forum does. But at least keep your jargon medical, less political. Less from far right sources, whereas far left sources are laughed at likewise.

 

“Chloe Cole's chest remains bandaged, her nipples bleeding interminably.”

Please tell me you don’t take that sentence seriously.

Edited November 3, 2022 by ANESMCR

[ANESMCR]

49 minutes ago, rev ronin said:

Given the long-term impact of transition/detransition, what is the acceptable false positive rate--that is, of 1000 people undergoing chemical or surgical procedures to alter their sex characteristics, how many of them deciding to desist or detransition is too many?

Whatever the rate is. It would have to be high. Right? We don’t practice low quality evidence on this forum. 

[ArmyPA]

11 minutes ago, ANESMCR said:I’d be rich if I got paid for every patient regretful they had an elective CCY. I’ve had people upset I referred them to hepatobiliary for a whipple bc it gave them pancreatic insufficiency..

If you didn’t inform them that this was a possibility then you practice a different kind of medicine than i do. And referring an adult for this is a big difference to giving T to a teenage trans male who later regrets it because they will always sound like a man due to thickened vocal cords. The fact that many jurisdictions are allowing children (read teens under 18) to make these life altering decision is disturbing to say the least. 
 

but you just keep being smug and insulting everyone who disagrees with you all high and mighty like.  It says more about your character than anyone else's. 

[ANESMCR]

23 minutes ago, ArmyPA said:

If you didn’t inform them that this was a possibility then you practice a different kind of medicine than i do. And referring an adult for this is a big difference to giving T to a teenage trans male who later regrets it because they will always sound like a man due to thickened vocal cords. The fact that many jurisdictions are allowing children (read teens under 18) to make these life altering decision is disturbing to say the least. 
 

but you just keep being smug and insulting everyone who disagrees with you all high and mighty like.  It says more about your character than anyone else's. 

Gee I guess I didn’t inform them enough, “but hey, you might regret getting your pancreatic adenocarcinoma taken out…it may cause diarrhea”. I’m sure they neglected to tell her that her breasts wouldn’t grow back. 
 

See that right there, just shows you don’t know enough. You went straight to gender affirming hormones and surgery. You skipped an entire step. What I find astounding, is that suddenly you’re empathetic to transfolk. But only if they regret it?

Also, you didn’t answer my question. What do you think of her nipples bleeding endlessly?

So sorry I offended you. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by ANESMCR
More to say

[rev ronin]

There are now, finally, beginning to be studies of detransitioning and detransitioners:

1.

Butler C, Hutchinson A. Debate: The pressing need for research and services for gender desisters/detransitioners. CHILD ADOLESC MENT HEALTH. 2020;25(1):45-47. doi:10.1111/camh.12361

2.

Entwistle K. Debate: Reality check - Detransitioner’s testimonies require us to rethink gender dysphoria. Child Adolesc Ment Health. 2021;26(1):15-16. doi:10.1111/camh.12380

3.

Expósito-Campos P. A Typology of Gender Detransition and Its Implications for Healthcare Providers. J SEX MARITAL THER. 2021;47(3):270-280. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2020.1869126

4.

Expósito-Campos P, Gómez-Balaguer M, Hurtado-Murillo F, García-Moreno RM, Morillas-Ariño C. Medical detransition following transgender identity reaffirmation: two case reports. Sex Health. 2022;18(6):498-501. doi:10.1071/SH21089

5.

Ghorayshi A. Doctors Debate Whether Trans Teens Need Therapy Before Hormones. The New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/health/transgender-teens-hormones.html. Published January 13, 2022. Accessed March 5, 2022.

6.

Hall R, Mitchell L, Sachdeva J. Access to care and frequency of detransition among a cohort discharged by a UK national adult gender identity clinic: Retrospective case-note review. BJPsych Open. 2021;7. doi:10.1192/bjo.2021.1022

7.

Littman L. Individuals Treated for Gender Dysphoria with Medical and/or Surgical Transition Who Subsequently Detransitioned: A Survey of 100 Detransitioners. Arch Sex Behav. 2021;50(8):3353-3369. doi:10.1007/s10508-021-02163-w

8.

MacKinnon K r., Ashley F, Kia H, Lam J s. h., Krakowsky Y, Ross L e. Preventing transition “regret”: An institutional ethnography of gender-affirming medical care assessment practices in Canada. Social Science & Medicine. 2021;291. doi:10.1016/j.socscimed.2021.114477

9.

MacKinnon KR, Kia H, Salway T, et al. Health Care Experiences of Patients Discontinuing or Reversing Prior Gender-Affirming Treatments. JAMA Network Open. 2022;5(7):e2224717. doi:10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2022.24717

10.

Marchiano L. Gender detransition: A case study. The Journal of Analytical Psychology. 2021;66(4):813-832. doi:10.1111/1468-5922.12711

11.

Narayan SK, Hontscharuk R, Danker S, et al. Guiding the conversation-types of regret after gender-affirming surgery and their associated etiologies. Ann Transl Med. 2021;9(7):605. doi:10.21037/atm-20-6204

12.

Pazos Guerra M, Gómez Balaguer M, Gomes Porras M, Hurtado Murillo F, Solá Izquierdo E, Morillas Ariño C. Transsexuality: Transitions, detransitions, and regrets in Spain: Transexualidad: transiciones, detransiciones y arrepentimientos en España (Spanish; Castilian). Endocrinología, Diabetes y Nutrición (English ed). 2020;67(9):562-567. doi:10.1016/j.endien.2020.03.005

13.

O’Shea SC. If I knew then what I know now. Gender, Work and Organization. Published online October 19, 2021. doi:10.1111/gwao.12761

14.

Vandenbussche E. Detransition-related needs and support: A cross-sectional online survey. Journal of Homosexuality. Published online May 1, 2021. doi:10.1080/00918369.2021.1919479

15.

Turban JL, Loo SS, Almazan AN, Keuroghlian AS. Factors Leading to “Detransition” Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis. LGBT Health. 2021;8(4):273-280. doi:10.1089/lgbt.2020.0437

 

Sorry for the wacky format. Zotero and the forum software don't seem to play as nicely as I would like.

[rev ronin]

57 minutes ago, ANESMCR said:

Also, you didn’t answer my question. What do you think of her nipples bleeding endlessly?

The video I saw talked about ongoing nipple discharge, not bleeding. This is what's making the rounds; I have no idea if her testimony is truthful or not, but I would tend to defer to believing a patient as accurately portraying their lived experience.

 

[CAdamsPAC]

26 minutes ago, rev ronin said:

There are now, finally, beginning to be studies of detransitioning and detransitioners:

1.

Butler C, Hutchinson A. Debate: The pressing need for research and services for gender desisters/detransitioners. CHILD ADOLESC MENT HEALTH. 2020;25(1):45-47. doi:10.1111/camh.12361

2.

Entwistle K. Debate: Reality check - Detransitioner’s testimonies require us to rethink gender dysphoria. Child Adolesc Ment Health. 2021;26(1):15-16. doi:10.1111/camh.12380

3.

Expósito-Campos P. A Typology of Gender Detransition and Its Implications for Healthcare Providers. J SEX MARITAL THER. 2021;47(3):270-280. doi:10.1080/0092623X.2020.1869126

4.

Expósito-Campos P, Gómez-Balaguer M, Hurtado-Murillo F, García-Moreno RM, Morillas-Ariño C. Medical detransition following transgender identity reaffirmation: two case reports. Sex Health. 2022;18(6):498-501. doi:10.1071/SH21089

5.

Ghorayshi A. Doctors Debate Whether Trans Teens Need Therapy Before Hormones. The New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/health/transgender-teens-hormones.html. Published January 13, 2022. Accessed March 5, 2022.

6.

Hall R, Mitchell L, Sachdeva J. Access to care and frequency of detransition among a cohort discharged by a UK national adult gender identity clinic: Retrospective case-note review. BJPsych Open. 2021;7. doi:10.1192/bjo.2021.1022

7.

Littman L. Individuals Treated for Gender Dysphoria with Medical and/or Surgical Transition Who Subsequently Detransitioned: A Survey of 100 Detransitioners. Arch Sex Behav. 2021;50(8):3353-3369. doi:10.1007/s10508-021-02163-w

8.

MacKinnon K r., Ashley F, Kia H, Lam J s. h., Krakowsky Y, Ross L e. Preventing transition “regret”: An institutional ethnography of gender-affirming medical care assessment practices in Canada. Social Science & Medicine. 2021;291. doi:10.1016/j.socscimed.2021.114477

9.

MacKinnon KR, Kia H, Salway T, et al. Health Care Experiences of Patients Discontinuing or Reversing Prior Gender-Affirming Treatments. JAMA Network Open. 2022;5(7):e2224717. doi:10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2022.24717

10.

Marchiano L. Gender detransition: A case study. The Journal of Analytical Psychology. 2021;66(4):813-832. doi:10.1111/1468-5922.12711

11.

Narayan SK, Hontscharuk R, Danker S, et al. Guiding the conversation-types of regret after gender-affirming surgery and their associated etiologies. Ann Transl Med. 2021;9(7):605. doi:10.21037/atm-20-6204

12.

Pazos Guerra M, Gómez Balaguer M, Gomes Porras M, Hurtado Murillo F, Solá Izquierdo E, Morillas Ariño C. Transsexuality: Transitions, detransitions, and regrets in Spain: Transexualidad: transiciones, detransiciones y arrepentimientos en España (Spanish; Castilian). Endocrinología, Diabetes y Nutrición (English ed). 2020;67(9):562-567. doi:10.1016/j.endien.2020.03.005

13.

O’Shea SC. If I knew then what I know now. Gender, Work and Organization. Published online October 19, 2021. doi:10.1111/gwao.12761

14.

Vandenbussche E. Detransition-related needs and support: A cross-sectional online survey. Journal of Homosexuality. Published online May 1, 2021. doi:10.1080/00918369.2021.1919479

15.

Turban JL, Loo SS, Almazan AN, Keuroghlian AS. Factors Leading to “Detransition” Among Transgender and Gender Diverse People in the United States: A Mixed-Methods Analysis. LGBT Health. 2021;8(4):273-280. doi:10.1089/lgbt.2020.0437

 

Sorry for the wacky format. Zotero and the forum software don't seem to play as nicely as I would like.

Damn Rev, there you go again with  rational coherent replies!! Two snaps and a thumbs up!!!

Edited November 4, 2022 by CAdamsPAC

[ANESMCR]

43 minutes ago, rev ronin said:

The video I saw talked about ongoing nipple discharge, not bleeding. This is what's making the rounds; I have no idea if her testimony is truthful or not, but I would tend to defer to believing a patient as accurately portraying their lived experience.

Not my words. It’s in the article.

[rev ronin]

1 hour ago, ANESMCR said:

Not my words. It’s in the article.

Apologies if I misconstrued that. In dealing with such topics, articles that sensationalize or misquote aren't displaying the caution and circumspection that I think the topic warrants. "If it bleeds, it leads" is terrible enough in popular journalism; unfortunately, I've seen a similar tendency in the ad-supported medical press as well.

[rev ronin]

5 hours ago, ANESMCR said:

Also, do you work directly with, and/or prescribe/treat transgender patients/gender dysphoria? No. I didn’t think so. Doubt anyone on this forum does.

Do you mean does anyone on the forum prescribe cross-sex hormones?  I have no idea.

I know I treat gender dysphoric youth on a weekly basis.  My experience over the past 3 years treating patients with eating disorders at the partial hospitalization level of care is that under 25, gender dysphoria is present in ~10-15% of patients with eating disorders, while I recall none over the age of 25. Far more patients with gender dysphoria have socially transitioned than are on cross-sex hormones, and I don't think I've treated anyone with completed surgical interventions yet.  I have yet to see a patient with gender dysphoria without additional mental health co-morbidities, such as anxiety, depression, OCD, or PTSD in addition to the eating disorder. That's not super exceptional, as 90+% of my patients with eating disorders have such comorbidities. Eating disorders are really serious illnesses, and you don't get to see it until you're up close.

Also, FWIW, my dad is one of those patients who seriously regrets his elective cholecystectomy. Doing surgery is serious and irreversible, and gender dysphoria isn't the only place where we really need to be careful and intentional about what we're doing.

[CAAdmission]

 

[ventana]

Reflecting on this whole topic.  What a first world problem this is and how sad we trail the entire forts world countries in health care markers and yet we are left with more problems that we created.   
when are we going to learn insurance and drug companies are evil??

[CAAdmission]

Here's some relevant perspective from someone who used to be all-in with the transgender movement:

https://www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

[CAAdmission]

And here's the follow-up on body integrity identity disorder. Like many other disorders, it is being transformed from a mental illness into a lifestyle choice by being renamed "transableism." 

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/transgendered-transabled-people-choosing-identify-handicapped

Soon, docs who graduated at the very lowest end of the bell curve will make fortunes amputating health limbs, cutting spinal cords and voluntarily blinding people. 

[CAdamsPAC]

4 hours ago, CAAdmission said:

And here's the follow-up on body integrity identity disorder. Like many other disorders, it is being transformed from a mental illness into a lifestyle choice by being renamed "transableism." 

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/transgendered-transabled-people-choosing-identify-handicapped

Soon, docs who graduated at the very lowest end of the bell curve will make fortunes amputating health limbs, cutting spinal cords and voluntarily blinding people. 

Pathetic.