Tayce Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (Oops, I think I posted this in the wrong forum first..my bad...) I am a FP/EM PA that has been considering going back to school to get my doctorate. Being that I have yet to find a doctorate PA program I have been searching multiple other doctorate degrees. I am having difficulty as I search because it is unclear how getting a doctorate degree in anything other than possibly community health would advance my career or financial situation. Does anyone else have any experience getting a PhD that advanced their career or finances? I make great money being a PA but have always loved education and don't want to start a collection of Master's Degrees if I can obtain a doctoral and someday teach. Any help is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 9, 2012 Moderator Share Posted March 9, 2012 Look into the DHSc options at nova southeastern and a.t. still university. nova also has a PhD option if research is important to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I just graduated with my DHSc, and am looking at transitioning into research full time. Also, have been approached about teaching as adjunct faculty at the medical school. It's a key...nothing more. It opens doors. You have to decide if you want to walk through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I am a PA enrolled in a doctral program. What career options do you want? What interests you? You can find a part time doctoral program in most subject/professions (public health, law, policy etc). It is rare to fine on in the basic sciences. Like EMEDPA said different programs provide varied levels of research prep. Ask any questions here or PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I am a PA enrolled in a doctral program. What career options do you want? What interests you? You can find a part time doctoral program in most subject/professions (public health, law, policy etc). It is rare to fine on in the basic sciences. Like EMEDPA said different programs provide varied levels of research prep. Ask any questions here or PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpackelly Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 You need really think about exactly why you want a doctorate. If you want to teach in a PA Program, you can do that with a masters, and you can be a program director and a principal investigator of applied training and teaching grants with a DHSc, which you can do in 3 years as it is a non-dissertation degree. Do a PhD only if you want to do heavy duty research almost full time; almost “bench” research. A decent PhD will take you from 5-7 years and is not something to be taken lightly or on a whim. It is a different animal. An Ed.D is also an option if you want to teach and do some research; you can generally done one in 3-4 years. Really think about exactly what you need the degree for, what it will do for you, what your “oppurtunity” cost is (how much work will you give up to get the degree, what your tuition or loan cost will be, etc. A PA degree is a terminal career degree and don’t feel as though you “have” to get another unless you 1) want a program director job, 2) want tenure at a university or 3) want to really change the focus of your career. Most importantly, DO NOT TAKE OUT LOANS to get another degree unless you have identified an absolute, definite need for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpackelly Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 PS.....it is almost never true that having a doctoral degree will make you more money than you can make as a clinical PA. Other reasons, like content of the job you will do, have to be present and be deemed more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorp Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 You need really think about exactly why you want a doctorate. If you want to teach in a PA Program, you can do that with a masters, and you can be a program director and a principal investigator of applied training and teaching grants with a DHSc, which you can do in 3 years as it is a non-dissertation degree. Do a PhD only if you want to do heavy duty research almost full time; almost “bench” research. A decent PhD will take you from 5-7 years and is not something to be taken lightly or on a whim. It is a different animal. An Ed.D is also an option if you want to teach and do some research; you can generally done one in 3-4 years. Really think about exactly what you need the degree for, what it will do for you, what your “oppurtunity” cost is (how much work will you give up to get the degree, what your tuition or loan cost will be, etc. A PA degree is a terminal career degree and don’t feel as though you “have” to get another unless you 1) want a program director job, 2) want tenure at a university or 3) want to really change the focus of your career. Most importantly, DO NOT TAKE OUT LOANS to get another degree unless you have identified an absolute, definite need for it. Well put. It really is important to understand the difference between DHSc and PhD as you describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I would only add that you can move into Health Services Research with a DHSc. At least I am....Also, I just found out from the grants director at AHRQ that the DHSc is considered a research doctorate similar to a ScD or PhD, and that I would be eligible for mentored scientist awards such as the KO1. Which I plan on applying for. The DHSc will NOT allow you to focus on bench research, but HSR with its focus on translational concepts, and applied studies such as Operations Research, Workforce studies, and collaborative health care delivery/outcomes research.. I've got 8 papers currently in the works, 3 of which have already been accepted. I have 3 grant proposals going out in the next couple of months. One of which is an RO3 to study EM provider performance and another is an internal grant to study PA and NP (primary care only for now) use and understanding of shared decision making models (state wide). The final one is an internal grant to study health care demand for the institution longitudinally over different geographic distances by specialty using a mathematical microsimulation model. I've also been asked, collaboratively, to work on a validation study of a logistic regression model developed in New Zealand that can predict deaths at 30 days secondary to chest pain, as well as an intervention on burnout in general medicine that utilizes an electronic format, and finally there are 1-2 secondary dataset analysis studies pending. The point is....the DHSc can allow you to move into full time research, but you won't run a lab with it. My work will almost entirely involve workforce studies and mathematical models. The other work is collaborative in nature. Here, you have two pathways for research. One is to become a "career scientist", which means you can say no to a lot of projects and JUST work on what you want to. However, you have to be completely self funded by grants. You lose your grants. You lose your job. The other pathway is the one that I am starting down, and that is to become a "collaborative scientist", which means you are expected to collaborate with other physicians and researchers, and work on a multitude of projects. You should be working for some grant funding, but it is not expected to cover your complete salary. You end up however, saying yes a lot, but your job is better protected. Agree with the other points of knowing why you want to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpackelly Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Agree with physasst completely. In the nature of full disclosure I am the director of the NSU DHSc program. We have many, many grads who work on governmentally funded non-basic science research and grants; workforce, public health, health professions training, decision science, primary care, IT, you name it. Also people doing very impressive work with the government and the military. Our grads have exceeded my wildest expectations of success, and the program is, this month, ten years old. PS...now that I’ve ID’d myself forgive my typos. If you want to pm me I can set up a conversation about doctoral degrees in general. No sales pitch; we have sufficient applicants and I am mostly concerned that you get the doctoral degree that will best serve your ambitions. There is no one best degree for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treejay Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 How about a DrPH (public health) ? How long might that process take for a Master's trained PA without an MPH? How might that degree differ from other doctorates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 How about a DrPH (public health) ? How long might that process take for a Master's trained PA without an MPH?How might that degree differ from other doctorates? DrPH is another research doctorate. The difference is focus. At ATSU, our DHSc program has an applied research focus, and we do the same number of credit hours in research that a PhD does. The difference is focus. PhD= Bench, Translational, Epidemiology foci DHSc= Applied Research (at least at ATSU, I cannot speak for other programs as I don't know their curriculum) DrPH= Population Research ScD= Epidemiology, Bench EdD= Education based research Other degrees like the DHA are not really research focused....and are more administrative in nature. BTW, that list is not meant to be all inclusive. Just some quick thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coloradopa Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 How about a DrPH (public health) ? How long might that process take for a Master's trained PA without an MPH?How might that degree differ from other doctorates? If you are doing a policy DPH or PhD in Public Health Policy it runs 2-3 years. Don't necessarily need a MPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayce Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Thank you for all the information. I would like to stay working clinical but add either some public health or counseling. I love emergency medicine and currently work in a rural area. I love the thought of adding to my clinical practice through public health or counseling as we don't have a lot of deman for research or teaching close by. I want to further my practice and knowledge but hate the idea that I chose a field where advancing means leaving it to do something else, ie research, teach, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Maybe a PhD in NURSING... :heheh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seijou Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 removed :sweat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cideous Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 /Facepalm ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 How about a PsyD? You can continue to practice, provide counseling and mental health services, and have prescriptive privileges as a PA. And you could seek a psychiatric residency for PA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surgblumm Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Contact Randy Danielson who will give you sage advice. Contact me personally at my e-mail and I will give you Randy's e-mail. surgblumm@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Contact Randy Danielson who will give you sage advice. Contact me personally at my e-mail and I will give you Randy's e-mail.surgblumm@gmail.com Randy was my professor for EBM. Awesome guy and a PA giant. Sent from my myTouch_4G_Slide using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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