SCPA Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 How do you handle 'em? I work in FP and some days it's ridiculous how many reps I have to talk to and sign for samples between patients... I'd love a lunch only policy, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc56 Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 At first I was bothered by reps in school at my primary family practice preceptor site. Then I went into ortho and got some really nice dinners/training classes and actually liked a few people as people. Then I went into urgent care and no one really came by and I missed it. We would see local physical therapy people, occasional lunch (2 a year). Now in ER I don't get any visitors, and really miss it. I miss the dinners and people pretending to care what you had to say. I wish I had gotten in before the sunshine act. To answer your question, get out of it what you can. Some times you can learn things. I got to go to a cadaver lab and do some of the spine implants. As far as the "my DM meds are better than their DM meds".... Ahh enjoy lunch, and some one listening to what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted December 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2016 no thank you don't see them, don't want to see them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SedRate Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I think it's rude and disruptive when reps swing by during clinic hours to try to discuss between patients. So we have a lunch-only policy and I tell the reps they must call our office to schedule. (We don't say that they must bring lunch but that we will only set up a meeting during lunch.) I leave it up to the surgeon whether or not to approve so that I'm not caught in the middle cuz nobody got time fo' that. Saves us a lot of hassle. I will occasionally attend a dinner presentation or course depending on our workload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febrifuge Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Remember in Monty Python and the Holy Grail when Arthur and the Knights are trying to gain entry to the castle guarded by rude French knights? Drug reps are Arthur. My colleagues and I are the French. We tell them to go away, or we will taunt them a second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Our office has developed a relationship with reps that lets them know we appreciate samples and information but cannot stand and chat. They can't get past the front desk if the receptionist says it is a bad time. We do one lunch a month on a day when we are all there and the rep is given a guarantee of 30 minutes with providers, no more. The reps who come are courteous and usually respectful. The few truly obnoxious used car sales type folks have been uninvited. They have been told they cannot come back as they have impinged on our time and broken the rules. We have all their phone numbers and call them in hard luck cases and to get the manufacturer coupons for the drugs that have no generics and are good drugs to us. The BEST reps will go to the pharmacies and work with the pharmacists to get tough pre-auths done with little work for us. My corporate medicine experience was cumbersome. Samples locked up and systematically counted, numbered and hardly ever available to providers actually prescribing them. They vetoed lunches and wouldn't allow information to be left. That really hurts sometimes when you need to learn about a drug to see what your patients are talking about and why. I actually saw those offices throw out outdated samples because providers were never told they were there or how to access them or who had the magic key. Wasteful. There are truly some very helpful drugs that are still sampled and have no generic equivalents. I value the drug reps but am thankful we have a system that sets clear boundaries and our front desk is a WALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted December 11, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2016 no no and no 1) it does influence your prescribing habbits (more profit for pharma) 2) it actually INCREASES the very costs that are making the samples look attractive 3) as I had my own house call practice I got to see what and were people live and learn so much more about them. It was amazing to learn who had disposible income, and who did not - we are NO WHERE near as good as figuring out who truly needs samples... I know I know these apply to all those others PA and NP, no my self, I am above that and my skill set is better at figuring it out...... ah no... I see them as the lowest form of salespeople - purposefully increase costs, possibly decreasing quality as their drugs are new and unproven, and in general merely a time sink that should be avoided at all costs..... I was in a fairly large FP practice at the time the reporting requirement came out... funny how ALL lunches stopped - and staff all lost that last pesky 5 lbs..... Seems the Doc's didn't want the patients realizing they were being influenced.... and the staff appreciated not get a calorie bomb numerous times a week.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4274368/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceBanner Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 We used to get them almost daily at my last job. I avoided them whenever possible, even to the point of eating lunch in my truck. The reps are just trying to make a living like you and I. Yeah, some are annoying but so are patients. It's really the whole culture of trying to sell us a drug on our only time off during the day, using studies paid for by the manufacturer. Like come on, get out of my face. 1) I dont care about your spiel, 2) even if I did, how can I possibly take your biased pitch seriously? And no one is above being influenced by their freebies, this has been proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk732 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I remember when I was in the Army and a rep came in to talk about various PO antifungal agents...from Novartis IIRC (Lamisil). He showed a very nice video of a study done in Scotland, blah blah blah, and then was going to discuss pro's cons. Before that, he asked if there were any questions - I asked "Who paid for the study we just watched?" He went red faced, packed up his stuff and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren R Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I briefly listen to their spiel and politely tell them I need to get back to work. I don't find them terribly annoying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindseynicole010 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 When on earth a part of our body is hurt, the pain creates that part ache but the real sensation is felt in the brain. There are a variety of kinds of receptors in our brain as well as each is attributed with a dissimilar type of feeling. The procedure may be explained as follows. Each and every time part of our body is injured, the damaged tissue releases to chemicals called prostaglandins creating the pain more acute. Thanks& regards, Lindsey nicole Buy Pain Relief Medicine |Pain Relief Medicine Online| Pain Relief Medicine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWR Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I guess I am in the minority here. When I owned my practice in NYC I allowed the reps to come and talk to me for 5 minutes. I did not allow lunches and I found them to to be informative and friendly. Yes they are sales people but so are we! I did not allow any one to bad mouth another companies competing product but to tell me about theirs. The samples left were appreciated. If there were too many in a day or I was packed I asked them to come another day. I think they had to meet a quota (that's what the signature was for I think). I have remained friends with one rep for over 25 years and still visit with her and her family when I am in NY. I was always courteous to them. These men and women have families and mortgages just like anyone who is reading this. As it would happen, I called my pharmacist friend in NY who rented from me in my medical center and he said the Astra Zeneca rep was asking "what happened to the PA who drove the Bentley?" I think he was more interested in my car and I can't remember who he is. One last thought "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"! PS they were a great source of information if you were looking to change jobs. They knew what was going on in the practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehorizen Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The American Medical Student Association has created a PharmFree initiative several years ago in order to educate new prescribers on the evil's of drug reps. Google "PharmFree" for more information. The best advice is 1. Never talk to a drug rep 2. Don't allow drug reps into your building 3. Don't ever accept a free anything from a drug rep 4. Don't accept free samples. I have gone a step beyond the above. Once a month, I do a sweep of the clinic after hours. I dispose of anything and everything that has drug trade names on the product. Pens, coffee cups, clip boards, posters. All of it in the trash once a month after hours when nobody is around. I view as a environmental protection service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Like TWR, I have friends who are reps and have known them for 20 years plus. We have watched our kids grow up together. Their family members have become my patients. They ARE a great wealth of info on what is going on in the community. I value those relationships as relationship and don't want to trash them. I agree that we are all making a living and hopefully trying to be ethical folks. I would mourn the day I don't have those folks anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthehorizen Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 http://www.pharmfree.org/ If some of the PA students want to take this opportunity to cure their programs of pharm influences, here is a link to how to go about doing so. http://www.pharmfree.org/change?id=0003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted December 14, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 14, 2016 thi I guess I am in the minority here. When I owned my practice in NYC I allowed the reps to come and talk to me for 5 minutes. I did not allow lunches and I found them to to be informative and friendly. Yes they are sales people but so are we! I did not allow any one to bad mouth another companies competing product but to tell me about theirs. The samples left were appreciated. If there were too many in a day or I was packed I asked them to come another day. I think they had to meet a quota (that's what the signature was for I think). I have remained friends with one rep for over 25 years and still visit with her and her family when I am in NY. I was always courteous to them. These men and women have families and mortgages just like anyone who is reading this. As it would happen, I called my pharmacist friend in NY who rented from me in my medical center and he said the Astra Zeneca rep was asking "what happened to the PA who drove the Bentley?" I think he was more interested in my car and I can't remember who he is. One last thought "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"!PS they were a great source of information if you were looking to change jobs. They knew what was going on in the practices. Like TWR, I have friends who are reps and have known them for 20 years plus. We have watched our kids grow up together. Their family members have become my patients. They ARE a great wealth of info on what is going on in the community. I value those relationships as relationship and don't want to trash them. I agree that we are all making a living and hopefully trying to be ethical folks. I would mourn the day I don't have those folks anymore. These long term relationships are exactly what they want...... then you know more about their drug, and when the time comes you are more likely to write it Called TOMA advertising, very simple old school way or getting their products out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GeronimoPA Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Tell them, "No thanks, I'm super busy right now and I don't have the time. Send me an email (make a BS email like JoeSnuffyBS@gmail.com) OR set up a Cat I CME event off duty hours with free food and I'll attend. Make it somewhere nice so I can think clearly and be on your game, I'll have questions". I go to these events, eat good food, buy my own beer and act as a prosecuting attorney cause it's fun. I may be a pain but I know if or if not I'd Rx the med by the time I walk come into clinic the next day. I read the study and use those weird things like p-values and confidence intervals and search opposing literature out just because my patients deserve someone on the edge of things. If they are haggling you, they have made their way to your patients. In the end, you sucker a drug rep into a $50 steak and you get to be on top of why you will or won't Rx something to your patients. When patients want the new hotness and you won't Rx it to them, it's because you "are being paid by the competitor" or whatever when really it's because you're lazy and have stopped learning about pharmacology. New meds are often times helpful. It's better to be able to explain to them why you won't Rx something than just not do it because you're uninformed. $50 steak bro. Do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 The American Medical Student Association has created a PharmFree initiative several years ago in order to educate new prescribers on the evil's of drug reps. Google "PharmFree" for more information. The best advice is 1. Never talk to a drug rep 2. Don't allow drug reps into your building 3. Don't ever accept a free anything from a drug rep 4. Don't accept free samples. I have gone a step beyond the above. Once a month, I do a sweep of the clinic after hours. I dispose of anything and everything that has drug trade names on the product. Pens, coffee cups, clip boards, posters. All of it in the trash once a month after hours when nobody is around. I view as a environmental protection service. Still trying to figure out if you just trolllin' here. Don't worry about drugs kids, the real stranger danger is drug reps!! Not even once!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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