csnyder223 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Hey Guys, I need some insight on these opportunities and would welcome any advice you have. 1) Dermatology Fellowship (1 yr) + 3 yrs of employment contracted. I would essentially be a student for another year, but I'm told that it will give me more confidence and help with my Derm procedural skills. I would get paid $30K for the year of fellowship and then $90K after that plus 25% of receipts made over 400K. Claims made malpractice. Health and dental ins paid. $1500 CME. $1200 professional dues. They haven't told me how much vacation yet. 2) Urgent Care: Three 11hr shifts/week and one weekend/month. Great supervising physician and staff. $90K base salary with $1750 CME. Combination PTO, Sick and CME = 248 hrs/yr. Payment of license and DEA fees. 403b plan with company match of $2500 yearly. Disability ins, life ins (equal to salary) I would be so grateful for any of your thoughts! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT2PA Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 What part of the derm fellowship makes it 'student' like? If it's just on the job training for a year, $30k is ridiculous. Sounds like they are just calling it a fellowship to pay you dirt for a year plus lock you in for 3 years after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The urgent care could be okay.. would like to see a slightly better rate. Please don't do the derm offer.. that is called taking advantage of a new grad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Hey Guys, I need some insight on these opportunities and would welcome any advice you have. 1) Dermatology Fellowship (1 yr) + 3 yrs of employment contracted. I would essentially be a student for another year, but I'm told that it will give me more confidence and help with my Derm procedural skills. I would get paid $30K for the year of fellowship and then $90K after that plus 25% of receipts made over 400K. Claims made malpractice. Health and dental ins paid. $1500 CME. $1200 professional dues. They haven't told me how much vacation yet. 2) Urgent Care: Three 11hr shifts/week and one weekend/month. Great supervising physician and staff. $90K base salary with $1750 CME. Combination PTO, Sick and CME = 248 hrs/yr. Payment of license and DEA fees. 403b plan with company match of $2500 yearly. Disability ins, life ins (equal to salary) I would be so grateful for any of your thoughts! Thank you! Is there a didactic portion of your "dermatology fellowship"? Honestly, that sounds like a scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csnyder223 Posted June 17, 2016 Author Share Posted June 17, 2016 The first year I would be rotating through their different offices, working with different dermatologists. Essentially I would be doing what I do now as a student. Go in before the preceptor, come out and present the pt and my recommendation of tx, and then they will see the pt after me. There would also be some lectures, podcasts, quizzes, etc. This is their first year doing the fellowship though so there isn't a set curriculum yet. I have done a 6wk rotation with this clinic and now I'm doing my capstone for 8 weeks with them before I graduate. I thought the deal was kind of crappy but one of the physicians was really encouraging me to do it if I wanted to get into Derm... so that's why I need your input. I negotiated that I wanted to make an average of $85K throughout the 4 yrs (so if they want to pay me $50K next year they have to pay me >$95K the 3 yrs after, and that I wanted it to be a 6 month fellowship instead of a year (given my experience with the practice). Do you guys think that is a reasonable negotiation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The first year I would be rotating through their different offices, working with different dermatologists. Essentially I would be doing what I do now as a student. Go in before the preceptor, come out and present the pt and my recommendation of tx, and then they will see the pt after me. There would also be some lectures, podcasts, quizzes, etc. This is their first year doing the fellowship though so there isn't a set curriculum yet. I have done a 6wk rotation with this clinic and now I'm doing my capstone for 8 weeks with them before I graduate. I thought the deal was kind of crappy but one of the physicians was really encouraging me to do it if I wanted to get into Derm... so that's why I need your input. I negotiated that I wanted to make an average of $85K throughout the 4 yrs (so if they want to pay me $50K next year they have to pay me >$95K the 3 yrs after, and that I wanted it to be a 6 month fellowship instead of a year (given my experience with the practice). Do you guys think that is a reasonable negotiation? Hes encouraging you.. for cheap work! 85k over 4 years in derm is terrible regardless. You shouldn't be cutting yourself so short here after working hard to finish PA school : ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT2PA Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The first year I would be rotating through their different offices, working with different dermatologists. Essentially I would be doing what I do now as a student. Go in before the preceptor, come out and present the pt and my recommendation of tx, and then they will see the pt after me. There would also be some lectures, podcasts, quizzes, etc. This is their first year doing the fellowship though so there isn't a set curriculum yet. I have done a 6wk rotation with this clinic and now I'm doing my capstone for 8 weeks with them before I graduate. I thought the deal was kind of crappy but one of the physicians was really encouraging me to do it if I wanted to get into Derm... so that's why I need your input. I negotiated that I wanted to make an average of $85K throughout the 4 yrs (so if they want to pay me $50K next year they have to pay me >$95K the 3 yrs after, and that I wanted it to be a 6 month fellowship instead of a year (given my experience with the practice). Do you guys think that is a reasonable negotiation? Don't negotiate. Walk away. Tell them you are looking for legitimate job offers, not fellowships. You already have a history with them (>3 months!) that alone should be a perk of hiring you. You can find a derm job without their terrible 4 YEAR! contract, make better money, and still get suitably trained. Depending on the market you're in, $85k is not on par with derm salaries. Never let them average your pay over several years...that just sounds like a bad idea altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The first year I would be rotating through their different offices, working with different dermatologists. Essentially I would be doing what I do now as a student. Go in before the preceptor, come out and present the pt and my recommendation of tx, and then they will see the pt after me. There would also be some lectures, podcasts, quizzes, etc. This is their first year doing the fellowship though so there isn't a set curriculum yet. I have done a 6wk rotation with this clinic and now I'm doing my capstone for 8 weeks with them before I graduate. I thought the deal was kind of crappy but one of the physicians was really encouraging me to do it if I wanted to get into Derm... so that's why I need your input. I negotiated that I wanted to make an average of $85K throughout the 4 yrs (so if they want to pay me $50K next year they have to pay me >$95K the 3 yrs after, and that I wanted it to be a 6 month fellowship instead of a year (given my experience with the practice). Do you guys think that is a reasonable negotiation? I joined the Derm PA society and got good advice from very seasoned derm PAs. They told me that they really won't negotiate with you after the first offer, being that you are new to derm. They recommended to shoot for $90k or 30% collections, whichever is greater. If you really want it, you can certainly go lower than that, but $30k is ridiculous. Ultimately, I ended up passing up on what turned out to be very sketchy dermatology practices because I took their advice. There are better ways of getting into derm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick87 Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 Don't negotiate. Walk away. Tell them you are looking for legitimate job offers, not fellowships. You already have a history with them (>3 months!) that alone should be a perk of hiring you. You can find a derm job without their terrible 4 YEAR! contract, make better money, and still get suitably trained. Depending on the market you're in, $85k is not on par with derm salaries. Never let them average your pay over several years...that just sounds like a bad idea altogether. A 4 year contract in and of itself is actually reasonable in derm. That's not the red flag here IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted June 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2016 Even for a fellowship, 30k salary is low balling you. Most of those pay 45-60k. And a 3 year contract for them to get you for 30k? you are being bamboozled. Not saying they aren't legit, you would know that better than us, but this is not a good deal. I would say they have to give me at least 50k for the fellowship, then 95k not including bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgriffiths Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 The other major question is whether this is an actual fellowship or if they are just setting it up as such. In other words, if you were ever leave this practice, can you list on your CV that you are a "fellowship trained" derm PA? But, as other's have said, $30k is ridiculous. I made more than that as a CNA, and how are you supposed to pay back your loans while feeding and housing yourself. That's less than what MDs make as residents in most places, and that is required. We are not required to complete a fellowship. By all means do what is best for you, but your starting salary after this "fellowship" should be even better in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT2PA Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 A 4 year contract in and of itself is actually reasonable in derm. That's not the red flag here IMHO. I agree, not the red flag. But when combined with the poor salary offer, committing to 4 years at a place that thinks $30k is acceptable is not a selling point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Fellowship/residency is becoming a buzz word for any practice out there that wants to take advantage of new PAs. This will unfortunately continue as there is no true regulatory process for these programs. The best we have at this point are those listed by APPAP and ARC-PA. $30k is not competitive for any postgraduate program -- especially one claiming to be a "fellowship" when it clearly isn't. A true fellowship also won't have a contract stipulation requiring you to stay on after completion. Please don't let yourself be taken advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csnyder223 Posted June 20, 2016 Author Share Posted June 20, 2016 Thank you all for your advice. I would love to get into Dermatology, but I'm thinking this probably isn't the way to do it. We'll see what they come back with this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csnyder223 Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Now I am being offered $4,000 per month for 9 months of fellowship and then I will bump to 85K + 25% receipts over 400,000 after that for the next 3 yrs. I am so conflicted because I'm afraid that if I don't take this opportunity, I won't be able to get into derm because it's so competitive here. Thoughts anyone?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCPAC Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 You can get into derm without a fellowship. Don't think of security here because it's a "job." Many people will train you to their liking without the title of fellowship, and will pay you accordingly. Sounds like they're desperate to have you slave away for them for pennies. Walk away, you didn't work this hard in PA school to earn $30k your first year out Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAtoB Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Made $30K as a nurse aide. To put that in perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Now I am being offered $4,000 per month for 9 months of fellowship and then I will bump to 85K + 25% receipts over 400,000 after that for the next 3 yrs. I am so conflicted because I'm afraid that if I don't take this opportunity, I won't be able to get into derm because it's so competitive here. Thoughts anyone?! So it was a one year fellowship and is now only nine months? It's clearly not a formal fellowship and shouldn't be advertised as one. Take the job if you want but just realize you are being paid less for typical OTJ training. You won't find too many posters here that support a "training salary." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotaskimmer Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Now I am being offered $4,000 per month for 9 months of fellowship and then I will bump to 85K + 25% receipts over 400,000 after that for the next 3 yrs. I am so conflicted because I'm afraid that if I don't take this opportunity, I won't be able to get into derm because it's so competitive here. Thoughts anyone?! Not that I pretend to be an expert, but as someone who's in a PA fellowship/residency, let me say this is NOT a fellowship. Fellowships are structured, have didactics, are *designed* around teaching. They are not OTJ training, they are not contractual beyond their stated length, and they certainly do not change from 12 months to 9 months on a whim. I would be extremely hesitant to make the gamble that what you're missing in salary you'll make up for in education (which is the basic trade-off of fellowships/residencies). If you are desperate to get your foot in the door in derm, and are opposed to relocating, then take the job.... but expect to get very little in the way of formal training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loliz Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Oh wow..... Most places pay you a significant sign on bonus to sign a contract, not completely the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAS2014 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Which job did you go with? Because... this sounds suspiciously like the laughably crappy "fellowship" I interviewed for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBJ2009 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Interviewed for same place. Did the same to me, thinking they could take money from me years 2-4. This was a month ago. And to everyone's sentiments this is NOT a fellowship. You will start seeing approx 40 patients a day, all billed under the MD. Run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAS2014 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Agree with SBJ2009 above. I interviewed here and it was a fiasco. They actually asked me during my interview if I knew of any fellowship programs in the country. When I told them I had researched and applied to two, they asked me to send them the websites and contact information so they could "copy the curriculum". When I asked if they had been in contact with the NCCPA or PAEA or AAPA regarding the fellowship, they didn't know who those entities were. Correction, they had HEARD of the AAPA. They said they didn't need those groups to get involved... RED FLAG. They also told me about the 40 patient minimum each day. The doctor told me if he "pitied me enough" he would give me one day of shadowing first before starting in with the 40 patients/day. He sees 80 patients on top of my 40, but I was only allowed to bill under him. This clinic has a terrible reputation in the area as being out for only money, money, and LOADS of money. Something not right is going on behind the scenes here. RUN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.