Brandon080 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi, I am interested in the field of medicine and strongly considering doing the PA route. Is there a way to get the required patient care experience without getting a certification? When I look at job postings in the medical field they all require some kind of certification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 While we're at it, is there a way I can practice medicine as a PA without going to school for it? This would be so much easier if there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon080 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 what I've seen are two semester programs that require 2 AP courses just to get in, so that is 3 semesters if they let me take AP1 and AP2 at the same time. Then after that at least a year working somewhere. It seems crazy to spend 2 years to get 1 years work experience. My father was trained as a vascular tech by a vascular surgeon, and both my parents were volunteer emts after an 8 week course. It seems the days you could be trained entirely by the hospital are over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 There are non certified medical assistants but typically you will have to find a provider willing to train. Not impossible but not easy. Emt basic courses can be done in 3 weeks but those courses are expensive. Some volunteer fire departments/rescue squads will train you as an Emt in exchange for a promise from you to volunteer. A&P will be needed to get into PA school so you will need those courses eventually anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Really its who you know. There was a guy in my CNA course that dropped out because he couldn't handle the stress of the course. He ended up getting a job in the hospital as a patient care tech with no cert, no experience, and no coursework that is related. I couldn't even get an interview WITH the CNA cert, phlebotomy cert, BLS cert, all kinds of related coursework, and with 8 months experience as an aide. He knew one of the nurses; I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormz Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Really its who you know. There was a guy in my CNA course that dropped out because he couldn't handle the stress of the course. He ended up getting a job in the hospital as a patient care tech with no cert, no experience, and no coursework that is related. I couldn't even get an interview WITH the CNA cert, phlebotomy cert, BLS cert, all kinds of related coursework, and with 8 months experience as an aide. He knew one of the nurses; I didn't. haha ya hospital jobs in my area are like that. You can almost never get in without knowing someone. To answer the main question of the thread. There are jobs in my area where you can do CNA type work without getting the certification as a nurses aide...its just a matter of looking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmpetersen Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Get started on the certification...in the meantime, look for a job. If you find one before you're certified, good job! If not, then at least you have the certification and maybe you will find a job in the near future. Stop thinking about ways to get around the hard stuff, and start focusing on making yourself the best possible candidate for PA school. It's very competitive, and the more experience and certifications you have, the better you will look on paper and the more likely to have an interview offer. You will be grateful for the experience when you start school (or so I hear ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 We just did a tour of the Union Gospel Mission here in Yakima. They have a medical clinic staffed by volunteers that is open four days a week. It occurred to me that this situation would be perfect for the aspiring PA to be. Volunteerism, medical experience, and an insight behind the scenes of a critical need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktalon Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 We just did a tour of the Union Gospel Mission here in Yakima. They have a medical clinic staffed by volunteers that is open four days a week. It occurred to me that this situation would be perfect for the aspiring PA to be. Volunteerism, medical experience, and an insight behind the scenes of a critical need. Unfortunately, HIPPA and malpractice fears have all but eradicated this kind of volunteer service in my neck of the woods. It is difficult to even SHADOW anymore for said reasons. In addition to my HCE job, I volunteer at the hospital in the ONLY department left where you can actually lay a hand on a patient. I am getting great experience and education there, but I sure do wish there was a free clinic in the area that would allow volunteers to do something other than file papers and greet people (not that that isn't helpful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 While we're at it, is there a way I can practice medicine as a PA without going to school for it? This would be so much easier if there is. lmao yep this is unfortunately the mentality of many entering these boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laifalove Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Find a job that's hiring someone front office/receptionist work with "back office support". Back office support usually means they'll train you to do more hands-on care. I worked as a front/back office assistant and got much of the same training as a certified MA would, same with my pre-PA friend, she was taught to do sub-Q injections and is learning venipuncture. You could also try just finding a front office only position and once you've worked there long enough, persuade the providers there to teach you a bit. I know in California if you have evidence of on the job training as well as a provider willing to vouch for you, you could take the MA certification test without taking a full on MA course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PA3675 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can one just voluteer to get the experience? My doc office has many PA's and one has agreed to allow me to shadow him as long as I want. Does this qualifify as HCE? I sure hope so as I don't have time to get a CNA. I work/attend CC full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejfenn Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My experience is found on my PA blog: http://djthepa@blogspot.com I didn't have any health care experience before I got this job, they trained me and I am positive it helped me to stand out as a strong applicant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laifalove Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Can one just voluteer to get the experience? My doc office has many PA's and one has agreed to allow me to shadow him as long as I want. Does this qualifify as HCE? I sure hope so as I don't have time to get a CNA. I work/attend CC full time. From most of the schools I looked at, they want paid hours. If they do accept volunteer hours it's usually not valued as much as paid. And shadowing almost never counts toward HCE, I haven't seen a school yet that says they accept it, but then again I haven't gone through every school's website. Some CNA courses are on the weekends only, try looking at Red Cross to see if they offer one. Your CC or another local CC may offer it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Can one just voluteer to get the experience? My doc office has many PA's and one has agreed to allow me to shadow him as long as I want. Does this qualifify as HCE? I sure hope so as I don't have time to get a CNA. I work/attend CC full time. Shadowing does not count as HCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsey1201 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 FYI: I toured PCOM a few months ago. My tour leader was a first year PA student. I asked her what experience she had prior to getting accepted. She solely shadowed/volunteered, and was accepted to PCOM among other good programs. I would be categorized as having minimal health care experience, but will be working as a CNA shortly to gain more hours. I understand how discouraging it can be to hear so many other pre-PAs with more hours of better quality HCE. However, I believe if you are an intelligent person with great character, determination, and discipline, you can become a successful PA. One other note: I feel the sarcastic/negative comments on this thread, and others, are a waste of this forums time. We should be supporting each other, regardless of the amount/quality of our HCE. That means treating every question as a legitimate one, unless it is offensive, obviously. As the old adage goes, "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This forum can be VERY misleading in how much HCE you need. Going by this forum, you would think you need 2000+ hours to be considered competitive. From my interviewing experience, the average applicant had waaaay under 1000 hours, many just shadowed and volunteered, many had low quality HCE such as lab or front desk work, etc etc. But come on. There are also many people who really do not want to work towards getting into PA school and they come on this forum looking for people to rationalize for them (not saying anyone in particular, just in general). People come on here wanting to hear they will get in with a 2.8, they want to hear that they can just shadow their dad's friend who's a PA, they want to tell us that they have no time to take a CNA course. Hello - do you think the rest of us somehow had more time than them? No. Just buck up and put in the time and effort like the rest of us. I agree my and others' comments could have been more positive. But at some point people just need tough love. If you are serious about getting into PA school, you need to be willing to put forth the effort, and it is an effort that is required for a number of years. If getting into PA school is not worth the sacrifice, then maybe it's not the right thing for you. Just my 2 cents. I normally am very encouraging and if you read my posts you'll see that, but at some point people need to stop looking for short cuts and just put in work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted January 11, 2012 Administrator Share Posted January 11, 2012 But come on. There are also many people who really do not want to work towards getting into PA school and they come on this forum looking for people to rationalize for them (not saying anyone in particular, just in general). People come on here wanting to hear they will get in with a 2.8, they want to hear that they can just shadow their dad's friend who's a PA, they want to tell us that they have no time to take a CNA course. Hello - do you think the rest of us somehow had more time than them? No. Just buck up and put in the time and effort like the rest of us. I agree my and others' comments could have been more positive. But at some point people just need tough love. If you are serious about getting into PA school, you need to be willing to put forth the effort, and it is an effort that is required for a number of years. If getting into PA school is not worth the sacrifice, then maybe it's not the right thing for you. Just my 2 cents. I normally am very encouraging and if you read my posts you'll see that, but at some point people need to stop looking for short cuts and just put in work. Tsk. Someone will surely tell you you're not being supportive enough by cruelly dashing people's hopes like that. We could start a support group... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted January 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted January 11, 2012 this forum can be very misleading in how much hce you need. Going by this forum, you would think you need 2000+ hours to be considered competitive. . only for good programs.....:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Steve Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This forum can be VERY misleading in how much HCE you need. Going by this forum, you would think you need 2000+ hours to be considered competitive. From my interviewing experience, the average applicant had waaaay under 1000 hours, many just shadowed and volunteered, many had low quality HCE such as lab or front desk work, etc etc. But come on. There are also many people who really do not want to work towards getting into PA school and they come on this forum looking for people to rationalize for them (not saying anyone in particular, just in general). People come on here wanting to hear they will get in with a 2.8, they want to hear that they can just shadow their dad's friend who's a PA, they want to tell us that they have no time to take a CNA course. Hello - do you think the rest of us somehow had more time than them? No. Just buck up and put in the time and effort like the rest of us. I agree my and others' comments could have been more positive. But at some point people just need tough love. If you are serious about getting into PA school, you need to be willing to put forth the effort, and it is an effort that is required for a number of years. If getting into PA school is not worth the sacrifice, then maybe it's not the right thing for you. Just my 2 cents. I normally am very encouraging and if you read my posts you'll see that, but at some point people need to stop looking for short cuts and just put in work. Cheers to you...well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yalatrac Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree that you do need to put forth not just time, but plenty of effort, sweat, and tears if you want to be competitive with some top PA schools. This is especially true if you dont have any certifications! Back to the question though about hands on care patient experience without a certification, I would go with a private practice. They have the flexibility that most hospital do not have. I did several hundred hours at a local hospital but with all of the rules, HIPAA, and inspections, I was barely able to get the experience I needed or wanted with the patients. I asked around to shadow a PA (a friend of a friend of an aunt!) in a private practice. At first I shadowed but eventually they let me practice IVs and phlebotomy on the nurses and took vitals with patients. Eventually after A WHOLE YEAR of not being paid, they are paying me the same as the nurses and RNs without any certifications. Plus, I get to do so much on my own now and often more than most of the nurses (phlebotomy, labs, Pt histories, PAPs and minor surgeries, splinting, vaccines, some diagnostic testing, etc) The constant quizzing and questioning of "what I would do" helps too so find a tough place that will push you and take you outside of your comfort level to a certain extent. Yes, I worked another job and went to school full time during it all (no mommy and daddy financial support) so you should expect the to do the same if you dont have any certifications because most places WILL NOT pay you initially until you prove that your skills are up to par with other medical staff. Believe me, the time and effort are worth the experience and make the difference between a good and amazing recommendation letter from the MD/PA! Admissions can definitely tell the difference too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRonSwanson Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 My first CNA job was in a nursing home and I was able to test out of the CNA course and the nursing home paid for the test. But really, would you want someone poking you who wasn't certified in whatever the state required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon080 Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 I don't know if I want to be a PA or a doctor or a nurse or a medical assistant or any of that. My primary reason for working in a hospital is to see what it is like. I'm not looking for the world to be easier than it is. But honestly my motivation really has little to do with the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterallsummer Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you're unsure, then sign up to volunteer. This will give you a chance to meet most/all of those people. Call your nearby hospitals and see what their volunteer options are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whimsygirl Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 In the hospital where I work - Patient Transport is a good way to see a lot of different things in the hospital and how different professions interact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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