What initial rank would a PA hold in the military?

[aspire]

Just thinking, what initial rank would a PA hold in the military?

 

I know doctors hold an initial rank of Captain, Surgeons hold a rank of Major.

[jmj11]

It depends on if you are right out of school or have had many years in practice etc. I entered the Air Force as a Captain, but I had 10 years experience as a PA when I went in. I think, at least in the Air Force, if you come right out of PA school you come in as a Second Lt.

[EMEDPA]

YUP, depends on prior experience in the military, yrs as a pa and highest academic degree. ditto for docs. they don't all go in as captains. many enter as Lts.

[Joelseff]

In the Navy, IIRC, you become a CW-2 (Chief Warrant Officer) with a PA-C, if you had a BA/BS and above you were an ensign or a JG,I think. but this was 15 years ago. Lots of changes....It's a New Navy....

[EMEDPA]

YUP, you need the bs for direct comission as an officer.

I looked a few yrs ago and experience+ ms degree would have started me as a major.

[MainePA]

In our neck to the woods Army PAs direct commission as a 1LT. If you have prior military you can expect CPT. If you hold a doctorate MAJ (One of the reasons there is an army doctorate program is to make PAs more promotable). PA experience not counted initially but is when looking at promotions.

 

PA students can direct commission holding a student slot as 2LT and when passing NCCPA are promoted to 1LT.

 

New England region has never seen a medical provider direct commission as a MAJ unless a doctorate level degree.

 

MD/DO will be CPT.

 

Brought this question up to a fellow PA who in the Air Guard, he says the structure is the same I mention above.

[ventana]

in looking before

 

new grad with out experience 0-1

new grad with experience (forgot the # of years) 0-2

 

for me with 10 years and a masters and 4 years prior service I would just make 0-4

[SCHMITTIE120]

for the HPSP I am currently a 0-1 (Ensign), when I graduate I will be a LTjg, from what I am told I should make LT within a year or so.

[uscbigdawg]

If you attend the IPAP, you'll be commissioned a 2LT after the first year of school. 6 months after graduating you'll pin on 1LT. About 2 years later, you'll make CPT. That's from a totally nothing program and the Army. If you're already a PA, as others have said, it totally depends on your experience. While at Ft. Sam, we had a plastic surgeon that decided to enter the Army after 19 years of practice and his initial rank was LTC (we were walking him through the EFMB course).

 

It's a good gig to join either the Reserves or active duty following school as they often have a HUGE student loan repayment program. It wasn't too long ago that they had a $125k repayment for like 4 years of service (I think). Not bad as you can likely negotiate 2 years of stabilization.

 

Rich

[jwallac4]

Rich is right on for PA's that are prior enlisted in the Army. For officer's going through the program it is more complicated. It depends on the "constructive credit program", which is a little too cumbersome to explain in entirety. Basically, if you are active duty you divide your commissioned months by 2 and for reserve or guard by 4. If you have more than 39 months after the calculation you're a Captain. If not you fall into either a 1LT or 2LT rank. A Captain is the highest rank you can have going into IPAP, unless you are a MAJ or higher rank that is currently serving in AMEDD. If you fall into this category you keep your rank. You get time in grade based on the amount of months after the cut-off for your rank. One example would be if Joe an active duty officer had 80 months commissioned time he would divide that by 2 and have 40 months entering IPAP. He would be a CPT with one month in pay grade/rank. Hope this helps!

[Guest TerryF]

Today is much better than when I was in the navy. We were warrant officers, in no-man's-land. We especially encounted turf wars with the nurses. I heard the navy surgeon general say once he would never give up a full commission slot for a PA.

 

Well, all PAs in all services are full commissioned officers today. That is great. I would encourage anybody to go into the service as a PA. I served as a PA and retired from the army after serving as a chaplain.

 

If you ask a question like "what about separation?" or "will I have to go overseas?", you best stay home and don't even think about going into the military.

 

TerryF

[doc1235]

Usual direct commission for PA is 1LT.

IPAP grads are direct commissioned as 1LT the day of graduation.

[EMEDPA]

Usual direct commission for PA is 1LT.

IPAP grads are direct commissioned as 1LT the day of graduation.

there is some credit for yrs in practice and highest degree earned as well.

in a similar discussion last yr someone posted that >15 yrs in practice as a pa + an ms =direct commission as a major.

[MainePA]

there is some credit for yrs in practice and highest degree earned as well.

in a similar discussion last yr someone posted that >15 yrs in practice as a pa + an ms =direct commission as a major.

Not necessarily, you get no credit for years of practice in the new england region (Army), only credit for prior military.

 

PA of 15 years=1LT

Brand new PA=1LT

Bachelor/Master PA=1LT

 

There may be some slight variation throughout the country but overall you won't be ranked higher than a 1LT regardless of PA experience unless you are former military or have doctorate level degree--this coming from a regional medical specialist recruiter.

 

Years of PA experience carried heavier weight in the past however since the addition of the doctorate program at Baylor, civilian experience is no longer a direct commission rank boost. This is being instituted on a national level however, you may find a few states that are lagging slightly behind.

[EMEDPA]

so what is the incentive(aside from patriotic duty, etc) for a pa with 20 yrs experience and an ms to join up if they will be paid the same as a new grad with a bs? will they be promoted faster?

I understand the doctorate argument. that is one reason I am working on one(not specifically for the military but for govt service- the state dept for example gives 2 additional pay grades for a provider with a doctorate vs one without).

[doc1235]

The fact is the military needs PAs most where the rubber meets the road and that is at the battalion level and is an O3 captain slot. The shortage isn't for majors in hospital/ administrative/ teaching positions.

[uscbigdawg]

You don't join the military for pay.

[Chris Barber]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your question, there are some good replies in this thread and some with a bit of outdated information. As a point of reference, I am a current Army Officer and have just finished my first year at IPAP, Ft. Sam Houston, Tx.

 

All military PA's (at least the ones with a Master's degree) start their career as an O-2/1LT/Navy Lt J.G. (unless they are prior commissioned officers of a higher grade).

 

In years past, new IPAP graduates commissioned as 0-1/2LT/Navy Ensign. In years prior to that (the 1980's) they were Warrant Officers. When IPAP switched from granting Bachelors to Master's degrees about 8 years ago, that is when they made the switch to commissioning as 0-2's instead of 0-1's. If someone were a new grad from a civilian program with a Bachelor's degree (I think those are decreasing in popularity), I am not 100% sure whether they would commission as O-1's or O-2's.

 

Doctor's come in as new graduates as O-3's/CPT/Navy LT due to their doctorate level education. PA's are similar to lawyers and chaplains who generally commission as O-2's as well. Sometimes you will see 2LT Medical Corps officers who are working their way through medical school, but once they graduate, they are CPT's. An experienced (as in Board certified, post-residency/fellowship) Doctor can come in as a Major or Lieutenant Colonel, to align them with rank their peers hold. One of my instructors (A family practice Doctor) joined the Army at 50 years old under this program. Obviously someone of his education and experience shouldn't hold the same rank as a 1st year resident.

 

Do they do the same thing for very seasoned PA's? I am not sure, because almost every military PA I know is an IPAP alumnus. I do have one instructor (a surgical and family practice PA) who joined after about 12 years of civilian practice, and I could get a definitive answer from him.

 

Hope this answers your question.

[Contrarian]

there is some credit for yrs in practice and highest degree earned as well.

in a similar discussion last yr someone posted that >15 yrs in practice as a pa + an ms =direct commission as a major.

 

^^^... This...^^^

 

Is also what I was told by a U.S. Army Healthcare recruiter. (for clarity... NOT one of the regular recruiters who know nothing about recruiting healthcare professionals... but a actual bonafide "Healthcare professional" recruiter)

 

>10yrs in practice as a NCCPA certified Physician Assistant, and a Masters Degree "could" equal direct commissioning at O-3/O-4... and at the least O-3p.

 

Rational: All things being equal, and when you consider the "Up or Out" policy... any ROTC grad with a bachelors degree commissioned as a O-2... would be a Major (or higher rank) by the time they spent the same amount of time (>10 yrs) in the officer Corp. So recruiting a PA with 10yrs experience and ranking him/her lower than a PA yet to take the PANRE makes no sense.

 

But then again... this recruiter knew that I had 8yrs prior service and things do change so I will defer to those in uniform "right now" doing the deed...

 

YMMV

 

Contrarian

Edited August 6, 2011 by Contrarian

[bradtPA]

The first PA I ever worked with in 1983 was Capt Carl Hunter, USAF. He was one of those early AF PAs who were not commissioned initially as a PA. Initially in the AF, PAs were not commissioned, and since the AF had no warrant officer program, they were then promoted to MSgt/E-7. Capt Hunter thus held every AF rank enlisted but TSgt/E-6, and was a CMsgt/E-9 when the AF finally commissioned their PAs at 2LT. The PAs were then capped at CAPT, and could not be promoted to O-4 back in the 1980s, but they were the only services PAs that were commissioned at the time.

[Joelseff]

so what is the incentive(aside from patriotic duty, etc) for a pa with 20 yrs experience and an ms to join up if they will be paid the same as a new grad with a bs? will they be promoted faster?

I understand the doctorate argument. that is one reason I am working on one(not specifically for the military but for govt service- the state dept for example gives 2 additional pay grades for a provider with a doctorate vs one without).

 

you would outrank some MD/DO's !!! lol

[2010PA]

If you attend the IPAP, you'll be commissioned a 2LT after the first year of school. 6 months after graduating you'll pin on 1LT. About 2 years later, you'll make CPT. That's from a totally nothing program and the Army. If you're already a PA, as others have said, it totally depends on your experience. While at Ft. Sam, we had a plastic surgeon that decided to enter the Army after 19 years of practice and his initial rank was LTC (we were walking him through the EFMB course).

 

 

Very inaccurate post Rich. IPAP grads pin on 1LT after graduation of Phase 2. There is no 2LT after the first year of school, nor has never been this way. I don't know where you got this info from, but it's way off. All PAs (because of MS) will pin on 1LT. Like others have mentioned above, those more 'seasoned' will acquire a rank suited to their experience. Chris is right on every aspect with IPAP. Also, those with experience WILL be promoted to a ranking equivalent to their experience. This applies to all medical officers; nurses, PAs, Docs, etc...

[HMtoPA]

If you attend the IPAP, you'll be commissioned a 2LT after the first year of school. 6 months after graduating you'll pin on 1LT. About 2 years later, you'll make CPT. That's from a totally nothing program and the Army. If you're already a PA, as others have said, it totally depends on your experience. While at Ft. Sam, we had a plastic surgeon that decided to enter the Army after 19 years of practice and his initial rank was LTC (we were walking him through the EFMB course).

 

It's a good gig to join either the Reserves or active duty following school as they often have a HUGE student loan repayment program. It wasn't too long ago that they had a $125k repayment for like 4 years of service (I think). Not bad as you can likely negotiate 2 years of stabilization.

 

Rich

 

I wish this were true, as it would mean more money in my pocket.

 

After completing Phase 1 (which is now 16 months vice 12), officer candidates receive a BS degree, but not a commission. OC's then move on to Phase 2 (13 months), after which they receive an MPAS degree and commission as an O-2 (well, technically O-2E).

[HMtoPA]

for the HPSP I am currently a 0-1 (Ensign), when I graduate I will be a LTjg, from what I am told I should make LT within a year or so.

 

They pay you as an O-1 while in school? That's crazy - is it full active duty pay? I can't understand the rationale behind that. They don't pay active duty PA students that much.

 

In any case, O-2 to O-3 is two years, not one.

 

EDIT: Oh, I just realized that since you're in a civilian PA program, you likely already have a bachelor's degree. So do you get an actual commission as an O-1 while attending PA school? That's pretty cool. And I saw something about a monthly stipend in addition to tuition assistance - that is in lieu of full O-1 PA, correct? You only get that when your on active duty in the summers or whenever I imagine.

 

Seems like a very good deal. I've heard that, as the Navy is beginning to approach manning requirements for PA's, that direct accessions will be harder and harder to come by, and that the community sort of prefers to produce PA's internally through IPAP (no need to "militarize" them, if that makes sense). What was the process to get a slot, and did you find competition to be pretty keen?

 

Just curious. Just started IPAP myself, which is also a pretty fantastic deal, but it would be nice to not have to wear a uniform every day while in school. :)

Edited August 26, 2011 by HMtoPA?

[ventana]

you would outrank some MD/DO's !!! lol

 

 

true but an O-1 and O-2 outranks all Enlisted, but have you ever seen a junior officer order around a master sargent? rank on paper and real rank are not the same.... a doc as an O-3 gives the orders to the PA or Nurse that is above him...... common military standards aside....