becky715 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I've always wanted to go to med school but recently have started to reconsider it. After signing up to a similar site to this one but for med students I started to realize the career is not exactly what I was expecting. Between the insane hours they work (especially since I'm 26 and hopefully starting a family in the near future), the large debt they have at the end and the fact that I hear a lot of complaints about bureaucracy, lack of coworker friendliness, lack of respect from patients, and the fact that you spend a lot less time with patients (and more doing paperwork) than I thought, I started to realize that might not make me happy at the end. I also read that A LOT of med students regret their decisions but when your student loan debt is in the 100K+, there really is no turning back. I guess I want to hear from PAs about how high the job satisfaction is. Would you do it over again? Is this a fulfilling career? Is it hard knowing that you do pretty much the same work as a MD but get paid much less and is often confused with a "doctor's assistant". You also work much closer to doctors than I have been able to get to watch their day to day life. If you could do it again, would to have gone to med school instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted June 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2011 every complaint about md is the same for pa: pa's work as many, if not more hrs than docs many pa's have > 100K loans bureacracy/admin issues are the same, if not worse, as a pa no one knows what a pa is so less respect from pts and some coworkers( docs...) pa's spend the same amt of time with pts as docs. don't drink the koolaid. we are not given more time. we are expected to produce the same results in the same timeframe as docs. if I had to do it over I would go to medschool in a heartbeat. I like my job but would like it much more as a doc. more respect. better scope of practice. 3x the salary for 2/3 the hrs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Scoufalos Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I ruminate on that all the time. I've decided that it's a "grass is always greener on the other side" thing. I *think* I'd do med school if I did it all over again. Now? Hellz no. I just didn't know I had it in me in my HS years, so I became a nurse, got bored really fast, and jumped into PA school and have been fairly happy ever since. I get treated like a collegue (100% so in my own office, and the most of the time among docs outside of it) far more often than a 2nd class citizen, but the latter still comes up. What really gives me the red @ss is when you are pragmatically expected to "produce" and "do" as much as a doc, but with "less"...at times less respect from other docs, nurses, ward clerks, pts, etc. At times, with less time: the hospital's EMR makes me type in the collaborative MD's name with each and every stoopid electronic order I enter (York Hosp went CPOE a couple months ago) which gets laborious when admitting someone; having to print my name out with my dictation number after each signature on a note, when we had paper orders, etc, while a signature from a doc no matter how sloppy was OK (I eventually got a stamp), less time because the GI nurses act like you're "their" PA and ask you to do all kinds of scut work they'd never ask a doc to do, like putting out little fires for them while my consults are piling up (if I have time, I help them; if I'm swamped, I tell them to go pound sand)... little crap like that that sticks in your craw. Overall the pluses outweigh the minuses, but there will always be minuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorp Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I've always wanted to go to med school but recently have started to reconsider it. After signing up to a similar site to this one but for med students I started to realize the career is not exactly what I was expecting. Especially if this "site for med students" happens to be SDN, I would strongly advise against interpreting anything on there as being representative of the profession as a whole. The other responses have done a good job of clarifying some of the myths, but I did just want to mention this. Do some shadowing or get some HCE and judge for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crieman Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I completely agree with EmedPA. The other thing I've noticed is that if an MD has a complication during a procedure its just brushed off. If a PA has a complication their entire privileges come under fire because we "lack the same training, and maybe we shouldn't be doing those procedures." Maybe that's just my facility but I doubt it. I would go back to med school tomorrow given the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnN Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 what do you folks think about this new 'Doctor Technician Program' I thought we had this program since late 1960s...it's called PA! http://www.statesman.com/news/local/ut-system-plans-a-fast-track-through-medical-1553857.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Scoufalos Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I completely agree with EmedPA. The other thing I've noticed is that if an MD has a complication during a procedure its just brushed off. If a PA has a complication their entire privileges come under fire because we "lack the same training, and maybe we shouldn't be doing those procedures." Maybe that's just my facility but I doubt it.I would go back to med school tomorrow given the chance. Yeah, same with any other kind of human error; it immediately draws more scrutiny, like flies to sh!t...it really feels like we are held to a subtantially higher standard sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayla2013 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 JohnN I feel like that undermines the role of PAs and why they were created in the first place. Why not open a PA school instead of a psuedo medical school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crieman Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Are they trying to develop a position that could do primary care without requiring a supervising doc? Otherwise this sounds exactly like a PA program. I don't think it's a good idea to add a 3rd type of midlevel provider. There are several programs already though that cut medical school to three years and are only allowed to do family practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted June 24, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 24, 2011 this is just another fast track medical school not some new kind of program. there is a lot of fluff in the med school curriculum. huge vacation and interviewing blocks 4th yr for example. a friend of mine spent 6 mo hiking in nepal as a 4th yr elective for example(he hiked between medical clinics and did some (not a lot) of clinical activities. medschool basically boils down to ms1 + pa school for all intents and purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 24, 2011 Moderator Share Posted June 24, 2011 what do you folks think about this new 'Doctor Technician Program' I thought we had this program since late 1960s...it's called PA! http://www.statesman.com/news/local/ut-system-plans-a-fast-track-through-medical-1553857.html why not just allow PA's to have a bridge program to make them MD lite's.... i.e. after 5 years of IM practice you can take a certifying exam that allows you to be a physician and bill all insurance co's////// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beorp Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 what do you folks think about this new 'Doctor Technician Program' I thought we had this program since late 1960s...it's called PA! http://www.statesman.com/news/local/ut-system-plans-a-fast-track-through-medical-1553857.html There really isn't anything that special about this on a global scale... outside of North America, undergraduate medical school in 5 or 6 years is common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmAPAStudent Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 So "job satisfaction" in general -- are many PAs happy with their jobs? For either MD or PA, my fear is the looming debt part of the picture... Another consideration: it does seem there are far more scholarship opportunities for MD students than for PA students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wallace Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Wow! I am a little surprised by the response to this question. I love my job! I do put in long hours but no where near the hours that my supervising doc does. I work in orthopedic surgery. The surgeon I work for moves very quickly and a big part of my job is to spend time with patients that he simply can't afford to do. I spend as much or as little time with each patient as is needed. This is obviously different than a primary care setting. I get paid well and I am treated very well. I must admit I did have to take out bigger loans than I would have like but the end result is I am making a fair amount of money. 3x what I was making before PA school. The other big issue is time invested. I have only 3 years post graduate work invested. The surgeon I work for has nine years. Yes he is making a lot more than me now, but his life was on hold for a long time and he was making nothing for long time. I think he deserves everything he gets, but I am very happy where I am. I would do it all over again today without any question. Did I mention I am moving to a new job where I will be working a 7-3 shift m-f with no call. Tough for a doc to beat those hours. There is also one more great feature of being a PA. The flexibility to change jobs is wonderful. In most cases you are not building a practice around your name. You can move 100 miles away and not be "starting over." If you are unhappy in your chosen field you can change tomorrow. This is one ability docs don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightbearer06 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I go back and forth over this. I get crap from one or two SPs and one or two consultants. However, I think the only difference I would have as an MD is that I wouldn't have to be presenting cases to SPs so would have fewer headaches as that goes (I could also move to a state other than VA where this is not a state req if it really irked me). I doubt the curmudg...I mean consultants would change much. Otherwise, I feel generally respected by nurses and MD's and make pretty good money without the soul draining experience that is residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnN Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 the grass is always greener on the other side is very correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnN Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 what do you folks think about this new 'Doctor Technician Program' I thought we had this program since late 1960s...it's called PA! http://www.statesman.com/news/local/ut-system-plans-a-fast-track-through-medical-1553857.html hello I feel somewhat appreciated at time. WE work in a large group practice. The Staff MDs sometimes get lazy and do not do the job, or try to dish to the mid-levels. When this happened we don't have a good saying in it but we keep doing it without asked questions. In fact, people get really lazy and 'sit in their a**' all day and not do anything sometimes. This got brushed off because it does not matter how much you work, you still get paid a certain degree. This is what I hate the most, MDs make 160s-180s/yr but they don't do any work. In fact, PAs get pay 50% less and do bulk of the work. I do largely agree that PAs sometimes do not get the respects they deserve, sometimes the residents would not take reports from PAs, or they would force you to get the staff attendings to give report but the attendings sometimes do not know the pt as well as you do. The hours are also a major factor, it's very difficult to get compensations IF YOU STAY LATE OR OVERTIME; we sometimes have to eat these without compensations and keep working. If I had a chance, I am pretty sure that 70s% that I would go back and become an MD and train through residency. I would also run my own business because you probably could be your own boss and you do things the ways you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfundee Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 It all depends on where you work, who you work for and what specialty you are in. As an EM PA at a large academic hospital in NYC, I work only 36 hrs a week. Lots of free time. We have great staff and SPs very supportive of PAs. We have PA group meetings, picnics, parties and occasionally have "EM Attendings and PAs dinner parties" without EM residents (they have their own extracurricular activities with Attendings). I have a good job but it's not fulfilling. I asked some of my SPs over and over again, and they all have said that they don't regret being a EM physician at all. Many go out and have wonderful social and family life. (sound silly but I can attest to that on facebook ;)) Relatively good lifestyle as EM physician.. May not be the same in other specialties. Plus, I personally think being an EM PA is just as stressful as being an EM Attending. Anyhow I am preparing for MCAT now before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am a 8 month old PA and already at my second job. I think satisfaction from PA jobs has a a lot to do with your SP. The first one paid well and I went after the money but the SP was a taskmaster that micromanaged my every move. I have been at my new job for two months and LOVE it. My new SP treats me as an equal and really shows an interest in my career. We have a morning meeting everyday where he teaches me and quizzes/"pimps" me. The pay's ok (not as high as the other place but adequate for my lifestyle) and I am allowed input in every aspect of my practice. I am loving it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfundee Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am a 8 month old PA and already at my second job. I think satisfaction from PA jobs has a a lot to do with your SP. The first one paid well and I went after the money but the SP was a taskmaster that micromanaged my every move. I have been at my new job for two months and LOVE it. My new SP treats me as an equal and really shows an interest in my career. We have a morning meeting everyday where he teaches me and quizzes/"pimps" me. The pay's ok (not as high as the other place but adequate for my lifestyle) and I am allowed input in every aspect of my practice. I am loving it so far. Yep, that's an ideal job for PAs but you don't have that option if you work at a bigger hospital in the Emergency Department. I have at least 20 SPs. I'm very well-rounded and social but there's limit to my diplomatic skills. I just can't please them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic25 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I am a 8 month old PA and already at my second job. Boy, these new PA's are graduating younger and younger :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Boy, these new PA's are graduating younger and younger :) LOL I just got it!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Boy, these new PA's are graduating younger and younger :) And amazingly...had 2 yrs HCE on the CASPA app...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted August 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted August 25, 2011 Job is good but some details very bothersome. Over a year at job and I still don't have my own MA. 15 provider practice. I am the only PA and I am #5 for revenue with over 225k already this year and while dogs get 150 to 200+ I am stuck in the 80's. Front office manager thinks she can boss me around but takes orders from every doc. And I seem to forever be the forgotten provider. In spite of this I love being a PA but am actively looking for a position wher I am respected more and paid a more appropriate wage. I needed the job so I took a low offer but am now regretting it. I was applying to med school in the mid to late 90's when applicant pool was huge and I finally just gave up on med school when I realized it would cost me over 1milliom dollars to do the exact same job I do now. Love being a pa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted August 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted August 25, 2011 Job is good but some details very bothersome. and while dogs get 150 to 200+ I am stuck in the 80's. wow, if they are paying their dogs that well imagine what a chimpanzee would get....:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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