geriatrics Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi everyone, first time poster here, long time lurker who needs some advice. I have been working for a locum tenens agency for about three months at a busy LTAC where the patients are very sick, straight out of the ICU sick. Many of my colleagues are also locums from a different agency than mine. It has come to my attention over the past couple of months that I am the lowest paid PA there. The client wanted to buy out my contract and offer me a full time position with benefits (I miss benefits) at a much higher salary and option for bonuses but that fell through because the locum agency wants a ton of money for me. This is probably because they are making a considerable profit off of my hard work because they pay me so little. Today, I asked for a competitive hourly wage, essentially what every other NP/PA is making. I didn't go asking around about wages but it's come up in casual conversation. My recruiter flipped out about asking for such a large raise in compensation and keeps bringing up that I'm making more per hour than my previous full time position, but I had bonuses and benefits at that last job. I don't think that's fair at all. I'm stuck with a noncompete clause and I do enjoy the stress and mayhem of this facility where I've been working, but I want to be paid what I should. Any advice? I had never worked locum before and I've been naive about wages, which has come back to bite me. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I do virtually all locums through a small PA owned group where I also have a noncompete clause which I freaking HATE. Not because it's bitten me in the rear yet, but just knowing that it's there drives me nuts. While I'm not a lawyer, I've heard that these are rarely enforced. I am working on a plan to get hired part time at a hospital that does not use this locums group, and then use this as leverage with the locums group to get them to let me out of the noncompete clause. I am one of the few guys who do full-time through their group, and I THINK if I threatened to walk then they would let me out. The plan isn't in place yet so not ready to pull that trigger yet (ya can't threaten to walk if you can't walk). If they don't let me out, then I can go work for this other hospital for 2 years until the noncompete expires, and then I can go back to any of the great hospitals I've worked at. As a locums provider you are, effectively, a hired gun. And as a "hired gun" you should try to pull as much money as possible. If they are underpaying you, then start looking for another locums job, or regular job, tomorrow. If you have a better job lined up, then you have leverage to go back to your locums agency and tell them to either raise your pay, let you out of your noncompete, or lose you. Let us know how it turns out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2015 sorry, but you signed a contract... you are a bit stuck can come up when you sign another contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrics Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 A little more info, my contracts are month to month, next one is for July so negotiating starts now. I'm working M-F at this facility as the only consistant provider for the patients, all the other providers pick up shifts here and there. Everyone I work with is so glad to have me around and I get along well with them all. I have seen two NPs come to this facility and not make it more than a day before they ran out terrified to never return. I'm it, the one steady thing this place has for medical providers and my patients do very well. Back to my locum recruiter, he's being a bit abusive about my asking for an equitable salary. My stomach turns every time I get a text from him and I don't need extra stress in my life. My schedule is already planned for July with the client, I'm one of the best and the most consistant provider they have. Is my recruiter getting a chunk of what should be my salary and therefore allowed to be a jerk to me? He continues to harp on how he's the mediator for me and all but I haven't needed him since the first month on the job. But if he's my champion why is he stating that my asking for what would essentially be a $25 raise be the end of the world? Anyone ever change locum recruiters at the same agency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Nobody has the right to be "abusive" or a "jerk" in any way to you. Period. Ever. You are a person, and a highly trained/educated professional. End of story. I'm not sure what your personal background is (age, sex, previous life experience, etc), but it sounds like you could benefit from verbally practicing setting up barriers. If your recruiter becomes disrespectful to you in any way you should immediately shut him/her down. There are lots of ways to do that such as repeating what he/she just said as a question: "Did you just say that I am being a money grubber?", and then shut him/her down: "This conversation is over, please have your supervisor call me to discuss next month's contract.". Month to month contract = start looking for another job. Are you talking about a $25 an HOUR raise? That's huge! They may very well be keeping a large chunk of what you are earning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Daddy Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hi everyone, first time poster here, long time lurker who needs some advice. I have been working for a locum tenens agency for about three months at a busy LTAC where the patients are very sick, straight out of the ICU sick. Many of my colleagues are also locums from a different agency than mine. It has come to my attention over the past couple of months that I am the lowest paid PA there. The client wanted to buy out my contract and offer me a full time position with benefits (I miss benefits) at a much higher salary and option for bonuses but that fell through because the locum agency wants a ton of money for me. This is probably because they are making a considerable profit off of my hard work because they pay me so little. Today, I asked for a competitive hourly wage, essentially what every other NP/PA is making. I didn't go asking around about wages but it's come up in casual conversation. My recruiter flipped out about asking for such a large raise in compensation and keeps bringing up that I'm making more per hour than my previous full time position, but I had bonuses and benefits at that last job. I don't think that's fair at all. I'm stuck with a noncompete clause and I do enjoy the stress and mayhem of this facility where I've been working, but I want to be paid what I should. Any advice? I had never worked locum before and I've been naive about wages, which has come back to bite me. Thanks in advance! Can I ask for some more information? We're all adults here and know the general pay range: What are you being paid and what are your co-locums being paid? For example, in a "retail" clinic recently in Illinois, I got $58.00 per hour, which was actually great because it is low-acuity and fairly low volume. In a higher-acuity setting, I was pulling $65.00 per hour. The kicker for me is your recruiter being "abusive." There is NO excuse for that garbage. Frankly, if your recruiter is being abusive, you should complain to his/her supervisor and advise them that you'll take legal action if they try to enforce a non-compete after what you've put up with. However, it still boils down to this: How much are you making and what are the other NP/PA providers making? I'd love to be able to give you an intelligent answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrics Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 I'm working in Massachusetts where PAs and NPs make a decent amout of money. The going rate for everyone else is $75 an hour. I'm being paid $25 less than that. This is my first locum job and I had zero idea about pay scales and whatnot when I started but on paper I was making more than my last full time position but without the benefits. Now that I know what everyone else is making I should make that amount, too. This job is tough, it's worth $75 an hour. The patients are high acuity and complicated. What gets me is that my recruiter is some young kid out of college and he shouldn't be texting me things like "this is just shocking to me that you're asking for a $25 an hour raise out of the blue like this!" when I had asked him outright over a month ago if I was getting low balled with pay and he lied to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted June 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2015 month=to=month That means that you simply state in a professional manor that you would like $75/hour with this benefit package or you don't sign. don't make it a pissing match, make sure you are fully educated as to what you want/need as you can't keep going back to them BUT it is just business. As for an abusive recruiter - ZERO tolerance. If they have a boss or supervisor IMMEDIATLEY get them on the phone and state what the happenings are and what your expected outcome is. A word...... in the perfect world you can just lay out exactly what you want, and don't take a dime less, but this is business and therefor negotiations are the rule. With this in mind, tell them that you want $5/hr more then what you would settle for then negotiate it..... if they demand concessions..... but never go below your floor number. Also, the ONLY person I ever had to take to court (owned some vacation rentals) was a physician recruiter who tried to back out the day before his weekly rent. He B**** cried and complained and came up with more excuses, but never showed up in court... and paid once the decision was mailed to him. Of course they are making ton-o-money off you - that is business and you let them by agreeing to it. Now you have to force a paradigm shift by demanding a more then fair wage. If they don't like it walk..... Special note about MASS - non-competes for physicians are illegal, and I suspect the same would hold true for PA's - unsure if there is case law out there so you would need to consult an attorney. As for texting from a recruiter - no way - emails only, want a paper trail of every converstion! need legal evidence. Texting is fro friends, not business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Just approach the facility and negotiate the particulars. After they are firm... Have them encourage one of their Physicians to sponsor you on your state required paperwork for licensure in that state.. Then once you have that guarantee of sponsorship.... form a LLC. That physician is now your supervising physician as a employee of the LLC. The Facility contracts with the LLC (NOT YOU) for your services until the NCC has run its course. YOU are also a employer of the LLC the facility contracts with. DONE...!!! The NCC says that you can't work for the facility... YOU DON'T... you work for the LLC...!!! Contrarian Forgot to add... once all the particulars are finalized... tell the agency to POUND SAND...!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillycibin Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 $50 an hour without benefits for high acuity patients is abusive in itself. I'm guessing this is a learning experience for you. If you had researched the forums you would have seen repetitive posts about what a truly fair hourly rate is when you are responsible for everything else. You need to look for another job and stand firm on what you want from this recruiter. You are being paid far below market value for a regular employee let alone a locums who should be pulling a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 To the OP (Geriatrics): What's your status now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfari Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Just approach the facility and negotiate the particulars. After they are firm... Have them encourage one of their Physicians to sponsor you on your state required paperwork for licensure in that state.. Then once you have that guarantee of sponsorship.... form a LLC. That physician is now your supervising physician as a employee of the LLC. The Facility contracts with the LLC (NOT YOU) for your services until the NCC has run its course. YOU are also a employer of the LLC the facility contracts with. DONE...!!! The NCC says that you can't work for the facility... YOU DON'T... you work for the LLC...!!! Contrarian Forgot to add... once all the particulars are finalized... tell the agency to POUND SAND...!!! This is the kinda stuff I wish they taught us in PA school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Yeah...but not sure if that would hold up. My noncompete says I cannot work at hospitals this group has covered in past 2 years. Don't think simply forming a LLC would get around that, nor would joining another locum group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Yeah...but not sure if that would hold up. My noncompete says I cannot work at hospitals this group has covered in past 2 years. Don't think simply forming a LLC would get around that, nor would joining another locum group. Is a 2 year noncompete typical? I am curious because in all my prior experience with non-competes (in a completely different business sector), 1 year was all that was enforceable unless there were some fairly tangible compensatory items tied to the contract and specific to the non-compete clause. Not saying I never saw agreements attempt longer terms but case law made it pretty clear that was the limit any court was going to enforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I don't know. This is the first, and the last, one that I will EVER sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I don't know. This is the first, and the last, one that I will EVER sign. Then if you decide you want out, consult a decent attorney. :) Your contract may be enforceable due to an unreasonable timeframe, and if they weren't knowledgeable enough to know that, then they likely didn't include other appropriately framed provisions, including what is reasonably considered damage by your violating their agreement. No discernible damage, no harm no foul. Also, courts generally don't 'adjust' an unreasonable contract, they just void it. You are correct, forming an LLC wouldn't let you skirt it if it were a valid contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatswain2PA Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 You seem to know a lot about this. Is this simply because you reside in the lawyer-mecca we call Florida? Or do you have a legal background?? I'm about to start a post asking for input on a draft contract, please take a look at it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas5814 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Hi everyone, first time poster here, long time lurker who needs some advice. I have been working for a locum tenens agency for about three months at a busy LTAC where the patients are very sick, straight out of the ICU sick. Many of my colleagues are also locums from a different agency than mine. It has come to my attention over the past couple of months that I am the lowest paid PA there. The client wanted to buy out my contract and offer me a full time position with benefits (I miss benefits) at a much higher salary and option for bonuses but that fell through because the locum agency wants a ton of money for me. This is probably because they are making a considerable profit off of my hard work because they pay me so little. Today, I asked for a competitive hourly wage, essentially what every other NP/PA is making. I didn't go asking around about wages but it's come up in casual conversation. My recruiter flipped out about asking for such a large raise in compensation and keeps bringing up that I'm making more per hour than my previous full time position, but I had bonuses and benefits at that last job. I don't think that's fair at all. I'm stuck with a noncompete clause and I do enjoy the stress and mayhem of this facility where I've been working, but I want to be paid what I should. Any advice? I had never worked locum before and I've been naive about wages, which has come back to bite me. Thanks in advance! Most locums agencies want to pay you as little as possible for your work so they can pocket more. When I was thinking about buying an RV and traveling and doing locums work one recruiter actually said "oh that is great! We won't have to pay you lodging then!" Like an RV is free.... Ask for what you are worth and don't sell yourself cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Quit , no one will look out for you better than you do for yourself. Tell the agency that you are through with them. I've been working locums for over 7 years fulltime and agencies will milk you for every cent they can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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