Withdrawals (W) on Transcripts

[Flowerchild]

Hello,

 

I'm considering dropping my ochem I lab since I don't need it for biochem.  I'm unfortunately a day late so I might be getting a 'W' on my transcript.  Looking into how caspa considers withdrawals, I'm seeing two different things. 

 

Under 'Entering Coursework'

 

• Select the grade that appears on your transcript by clicking “Click Here to Input Grades” and choosing your grade from the drop-down menu. Letter grades are at the top of the list, but you can scroll down for other non-letter grade options including “W” for withdrawn and “CR” for credit.
• If your grade does not appear on our drop-down menu, it is acceptable to include its equivalent; for example, if “DR” on your transcript means “Withdrawn,” you may input the “W” or if “E” on your transcript indicates a failure, you should input “F.” Please note that grades of “Fail” in a Pass/Fail course should be entered as “NP” for “Non-Pass” Instead of “F.”"

 

Under 'Verifying GPA'

 

• CASPA’s numeric scale for letter grades may be different than the one used at your home institution. Please note that a grade of “WF” or “Withdrawn Failing” is calculated into the CASPA system as an “F.” You can view the numeric chart in the “Entering Coursework” section of our instructions.

So are 'W' and 'WF' two different things? If so, how is W counted towards your GPA?

 

[a.rosswoods]

I had a W on mine. It didn't impact my calculation

[AliB]

A 'W' will not affect your GPA. I suspect a 'WF' will. I had multiple 'W' 'grades' on transcripts, but no 'WF'. You can email CASPA directly and ask for clarification.

[Flowerchild]

A 'W' will not affect your GPA. I suspect a 'WF' will. I had multiple 'W' 'grades' on transcripts, but no 'WF'. You can email CASPA directly and ask for clarification.

Gotcha! I've emailed CAPSA already but yeah I have a couple W's on my transcript as well and someone told me that they counted as F's so I was freaking a bit and wanted a quicker answer. Thank you for your input! 

[Allegro]

A "W" or "withdrawn" means that you either withdrew from the course passing or you withdrew without penalty (most likely because you were in the drop/add period, or there was a medical situation, etc.) These don't count for anything GPA-wise on CASPA or otherwise. Usually the only concern with normal Ws is that an excessive amount of them might make adcoms raise their eyebrows, or at least throw up a flag if you withdrew multiple times from the same course.

 

A "withdrawn failing" means you were failing the course and withdrew from it because you were failing. These are often considered withdrawn "with penalty" or "withdrawn failing" which are calculated into the GPA as Fs by CASPA. Sometimes people get WFs if they withdraw after the official add/drop period without special permission.

[cmw8820]

A "W" or "withdrawn" means that you either withdrew from the course passing or you withdrew without penalty (most likely because you were in the drop/add period, or there was a medical situation, etc.) These don't count for anything GPA-wise on CASPA or otherwise. Usually the only concern with normal Ws is that an excessive amount of them might make adcoms raise their eyebrows, or at least throw up a flag if you withdrew multiple times from the same course.

 

A "withdrawn failing" means you were failing the course and withdrew from it because you were failing. These are often considered withdrawn "with penalty" or "withdrawn failing" which are calculated into the GPA as Fs by CASPA. Sometimes people get WFs if they withdraw after the official add/drop period without special permission.

 

Just curious then, if you withdrew from a course but retook it and was issued a letter grade, what does that mean in the grand scheme of things? 

[Clarrain]

I know this thread is a few months old, but I was wondering something similar. 

 

I was advised by a counselor at the University of Texas at Austin that withdrawals (W) on your transcripts are looked down upon admission committees. Can someone confirm this for me because now I'm worried; I have about 3 (W's) on my transcripts. The (W's) are for non-science courses, but I am still kinda shocked that it would be looked down upon by admissions. And now that I am going into my upper-division course work for my undergrad, I am more than positive that I will withdrawal at least once more. Is my competitive edge for PA-schools now diminished ?

 

Also the counselor referred to these (W's) as Q-drops. Are they the same thing? I've never heard of a Q-drop before. 

[AliB]

Unless your application is weak or average all the way around, a few Ws aren't going to make or break you.  I probably had at least a dozen over the course of my academic career.  I was asked about some of the recent ones (the 3 for Org. Chem) in more than one of my interviews.  With the older ones, I was asked more generally about my overall performance, but not the Ws specifically (of course, the Fs might have been the more interesting topic than the Ws).  

 

So, to put in other words, don't stress over the things you can't change.  Focus on the things you can continue to strengthen.  Be prepared to answer a question on any part of your application that could be considered a weak point, but keep your response short and to the point.  Also, make sure your response is from your own accountability (no blaming anyone / everyone else) and what you've learned from it (as appropriate).  

 

It's been a really (really!) long time, but I seem to recall there used to be two windows for dropping a class, or maybe it was two methods?  I think it was a Q (for Quit?) up to a certain amount of elapsed time; after that it was a W on your transcript.  It was probably too confusing overall, and it may vary from school to school.  

 

P.S.  Google Q-drop - it's a Texas thing (I'm TAMU Class of '84, '87, '88).  :)  

[Clarrain]

Unless your application is weak or average all the way around, a few Ws aren't going to make or break you.  I probably had at least a dozen over the course of my academic career.  I was asked about some of the recent ones (the 3 for Org. Chem) in more than one of my interviews.  With the older ones, I was asked more generally about my overall performance, but not the Ws specifically (of course, the Fs might have been the more interesting topic than the Ws).  

 

So, to put in other words, don't stress over the things you can't change.  Focus on the things you can continue to strengthen.  Be prepared to answer a question on any part of your application that could be considered a weak point, but keep your response short and to the point.  Also, make sure your response is from your own accountability (no blaming anyone / everyone else) and what you've learned from it (as appropriate).  

 

It's been a really (really!) long time, but I seem to recall there used to be two windows for dropping a class, or maybe it was two methods?  I think it was a Q (for Quit?) up to a certain amount of elapsed time; after that it was a W on your transcript.  It was probably too confusing overall, and it may vary from school to school.  

 

P.S.  Google Q-drop - it's a Texas thing (I'm TAMU Class of '84, '87, '88).  :)  

 

Thank you for the info. When they asked you about it in interviews what were you able to tell them? Specially since it is multiple W's over a time period. 

 

Side note: so I was googling that Q-drop term! I couldn't find anything about it, except that it was posted on several universities from Texas; so funny I thought it was "Q" for Quarter! I was thinking, maybe in Texas the quarter system is more popular than the semester. lol

[AliB]

Here's what I see. All involve TX schools, most of which are on semester system.

[AliB]

What I told the interviewers wasn't one size fits all. It was a bit frustrating for me that the class affected most in my recent return for post-bacc courses was O.Chem. The first semester W was because my job changed and I couldn't get to class. The second semester my stepmother's health took a nosedive and she died. The third semester my mother was diagnosed with inoperable GBM (she died in less than 6 months). Aside from the emotional trauma, O.Chem wasn't something I could miss a lot of class and teach myself, and I knew that. Each time I was passing the course when I withdrew, and each time I had a conference with the professor to determine best course of action. One slightly snarky interviewer commented that having essentially taken it 4 times it was no wonder I made an A (I considered him a bit off base since I have a 3.94 in my last 80 hours of coursework). He went on to ask what my response would be if I was told I had to take O.Chem II. I just said I was sure I'd enjoy it; I actually enjoyed O.Chem I, but I was astute enough about myself to know I wasn't going to learn it well independently, nor could I miss a big block of the course and just pick up and go on as it builds on prior topics as you go.

Some of the other multitude of Ws were for less specific reasons, although the ones for Calculus were because I kept ending up in a class with a prof for whom American English was clearly not their first language (probably not their 2nd either!). That was another subject I was not going to successfully learn on my own. I have much less difficulty with co-workers and clients now where we have a lot of common terminology, working together for a shared goal, and I've worked successfully in six countries with many multinational teams, but I know my shortcomings and stay aware of when it's going to be problematic due to my linguistic limitations!

[Hopeful2015]

One slightly snarky interviewer commented that having essentially taken it 4 times it was no wonder I made an A (I considered him a bit off base since I have a 3.94 in my last 80 hours of coursework).

 

Oh gosh, getting a snarky question like this is my worst nightmare. You handled it very well from the sound of it. May I ask if you got into this particular school?

[AliB]

Oh gosh, getting a snarky question like this is my worst nightmare. You handled it very well from the sound of it. May I ask if you got into this particular school?

I did not.  :) 

[Glorious_Ignoramus]

Ws are not looked down upon.  I would suppose if your transcript is full of them, that would demonstrate some kind of quality which the school does not want to bother with but otherwise it's all good.

 

The thing with college academic counselors - and I mean no disrespect to any - is that  a lot of them have no idea what they're talking about.  These are folks who have probably never been through the process themselves and extrapolate from other grad/doc admissions processes.  Ws happen all the time; especially for non-trad students who have to rearrange schedules for family and work.  I've got a few, no questions have ever been asked and I've done no explaining.

[PAGuy55]

I have two Ws in pre reqs and I just got an interview last week. Mind you my GPA is higher but regardless still two Ws. Stuff happens and life happens. Don't sweat the Ws.

[NEB1985]

I withdrew altogether in back to back semesters due to family issues. I addressed it in my narrative, but I was never asked about it in interviews, and I got in to the first school I interviewed at. I was originally very worried about it when I first started applying, I wouldn't recommend doing it unless you absolutely have to, but it clearly isn't a death blow.

[Clarrain]

Ws are not looked down upon.  I would suppose if your transcript is full of them, that would demonstrate some kind of quality which the school does not want to bother with but otherwise it's all good.

 

The thing with college academic counselors - and I mean no disrespect to any - is that  a lot of them have no idea what they're talking about.  These are folks who have probably never been through the process themselves and extrapolate from other grad/doc admissions processes.  Ws happen all the time; especially for non-trad students who have to rearrange schedules for family and work.  I've got a few, no questions have ever been asked and I've done no explaining.

 

I totally agree. A lot of counselors that I've seen have given me the wrong information or have tired to subtly put me down because of how competitive these programs are. 

[greenmood]

One thing to add: although WF stands for Withdrawn Failing and may count as an F on your GPA calculation, people can get these on their transcripts just by withdrawing after the add/drop period ends.

 

That's why you need to think carefully about dropping a class after the add/drop period. Although you might be passing and have an excellent reason to drop the course at that point in the semester, that won't be apparent to a graduate school unless you specifically explain it. :)

[SHU-CH]

Ws are not looked down upon.  I would suppose if your transcript is full of them, that would demonstrate some kind of quality which the school does not want to bother with but otherwise it's all good.

 

This is mostly correct. Just be sure that you are prepared to explain why you withdrew during an interview. As long as you can articulate a decent reason it should not be an issue.

[Ikram]

On 2/16/2015 at 7:22 PM, AliB said:

A 'W' will not affect your GPA. I suspect a 'WF' will. I had multiple 'W' 'grades' on transcripts, but no 'WF'. You can email CASPA directly and ask for clarification.

Hello! I was actually wondering the same question because I have on W from my freshman year and I currently going into my junior year and this past semester has not done well for my GPA at all. I was wondering if I could just withdraw from 3 classes and retaking them outside of my institution would that be able to work and look better. I have heard that if you keep your grades and retaking them on top of that would show growth but I just feel defeated and disgusted with myself looking at my transcript. I am just a that point in undergrad where anything below an A disappoints me and I feel like I will not be able to be a PA. It has stressed my mind just thinking about it day and night.