toyotabike Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 How useful is doing dissections in PA school vs just looking at the cadaver during anatomy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobuddy Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Interestingly enough, this was an informal study when I was in grad school. The medical students did entirely prosections and the grad students did both dissection and prosections. The reason for this study was to see if we learned differently than the med students. The grad students took the anatomy med student exam and also took an oral exam. Turns out, the grad students learned relationships better - not just locations of nerves, muscles, arteries, etc - but what was superficial/deep, lateral/medial/ proximal and distal. The next year they changed to prosections and dissections for med students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotabike Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 Interestingly enough, this was an informal study when I was in grad school. The medical students did entirely prosections and the grad students did both dissection and prosections. The reason for this study was to see if we learned differently than the med students. The grad students took the anatomy med student exam and also took an oral exam. Turns out, the grad students learned relationships better - not just locations of nerves, muscles, arteries, etc - but what was superficial/deep, lateral/medial/ proximal and distal. The next year they changed to prosections and dissections for med students. That is an interesting study. Reason I am asking is because when I went to check out a school, I was told that as a PA I would not need to know human anatomy in such detail unless I was going to be a surgeon. Cadaver dissection uses up a lot of time and that time could be spent else where in studying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marktheshark89 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Going to a school with a cadaver dissection was a must for me, and I think it has made a world of difference in my understanding of anatomy. I can't imagine just learning it from a book for even from prosection, plus its great if you are a kinesthetic learner. I'm only in first year, but I'd imagine it would be helpful during surgery rotations and if you plan to go into surgeryin the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobuddy Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I would agree that dissection takes time - I spent many many hours dissecting with my partner when the med students were in the next room with the parts and pieces arranged before them. And, FWIW, the grad students used the prosections as an aid. They certainly helped us figure out what the heck we were looking for! I can see why the professors changed to dissections and prosections the next year. Especially for those going in to surgery. Heck, even doing joint injections or trigger point injections can give a different prospective with dissections. The following years that the med students did dissections, the 20 cadavers that were used showed us anomalies that could be present. Not everyone read the textbook during development which made it all the more interesting. One other thing I should mention that I felt was/is important - using cadavers brings it to the forefront that these people donated their bodies to the University for us to learn. It is very easy to disassociate a bin of parts and pieces - but a person laying before you puts it all into perspective what we are getting ready to embark on - career wise. The pink nail polish that remains on fingernails, the previous surgical scars, the pacemaker/defibrilator still in place, what cancer does to bones (turns them to dust literally) - all of those things I would have never learned with prosections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM2PA Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 My school doesn't have cadavers. It really isn't that big of a deal IMHO, but it's nice to have of course. There's much more important things to learn first semester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medic25 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 The cadaver dissection portion of our PA program was one of the best parts of my education. There is no replacement for getting hands on and working your way through each part of the body. I've participated in prosections during the cadaver lab for our paramedic students, and unfortunately it just doesn't compare when it comes to learning how each part of the human body is interconnected. As a side note, I'd be hesitant about somebody at a PA program telling you that you don't need to know human anatomy in detail; without a strong base in human anatomy, you aren't going to have a good grasp of all of the clinical medicine that follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Having a cadaver to dissect was a big deal for me. We had pre-dissected cadavers in community college and it was definitely a second-rate experience for me. I didn't do all that great at anatomy in PA school, but I can still remember what I learned 9 years later. I went into a medical specialty; I can imagine that it was an even bigger deal for people who go into surgical specialties. I spent a good bit of my book describing what PA school anatomy was like for me. It was my first class and, at my school, we took it almost by itself the first summer; Kind of like the way the military academies have a rough boot camp the summer before actual school starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 If I could do it all over again I would repeat the gross dissection lab. My experience sounds similar to UGoLong. Gross anatomy with dissection was my first PA class and lasted 8 weeks. It was 5 days a week for 4 hours a day, plus we could go to the lab anytime afterwards for studying. I liked the class, learned a lot but felt as an older student who had not been in a college environment for 20 years it was a bit overwhelming. My grade wasn't the best, but I passed. It was an important class and helped put it all together when the clinical medicine classes started. I still pull out my Netter's Anatomy book for reference. I think dissection is important for PA students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Paula, That sure sounds like my experience, right down to the grades! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alster Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I haven't been through PA school yet, but a full cadaver dissection is definitely something I'm looking for in a program. I understand that as PAs we might not need to know anatomy in that much detail, especially for people going into a non-surgical field, but it's kind of a right of passage of a medical education, and I truly want that experience. If that's something you value, then you might want to look for that opportunity in the PA school you choose. If it's not something you really want, then it doesn't need to be a factor in your choice to attend or not attend any certain program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timon Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I did the prosected cadavers. I think it was great and provided exactly what we needed to learn considering we are in such an accelerated program. We had people who had done cadaver labs with dissections in our class and when I asked this question to them my classmates said they spent most of their time just cutting away adipose tissue and felt it was a waste of time dissecting. On the flip side they would mention every now and again how a cadaver wasn't dissected well enough or all the way or that structures had been cut out. So in the end it's up to you and what you feel is important. IMO there is a difference (I wouldn't say it would be detrimental to you being a good clinician or not) but then again most PA programs in the west coast don't even offer cadaver labs for PA students. As a side note you can always enroll in a dissection anatomy course or volunteer or do a student work program in the anatomy lab if it mattered that much to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMPA Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Anatomy and physiology is the cornerstone to medicine. Yes, PAs do need to know all the detailed anatomy. Dissection is an important aspect of PA training. My program was designed to have 3 A&P courses, first was pre-program followed by dissection lab and class with program required A&P, That is what creates a quiality PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I hear what you're saying about the disadvantages of dissection and hacking through structures of interest. 9 years later, I still remember what we hacked through and how I went to one of the other dissecting tables to see the feature. I remember circulating around the room for practical exams, trying to figure out structures that differed from that of our cadaver, "George," an 86 year old farmer with a strong heart who died of esophageal cancer. I'm sure there are many ways to learn anatomy. I'm just glad I had a chance to do dissection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timon Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Maybe were having a misunderstanding... We also had a practical with 12 cadavers with names, ages, med history, etc. The only difference was the bodies were already dissected hence prosected. So yes I was digging through all the different layers of "Jenny's" arm as I'm identifying if this is median versus radial or ulnar. Yes we had over 800 structures per practical to go through and identify on 12 different bodies. I see the value of doing a dissection and obviously anatomy and phys are the cornerstone to medicine... But lots of places don't even offer anatomy labs or even anatomy since they assume you already know it and will cover it during the clinical module. The question that is being asked is how useful is it doing the dissection versus having a body that is already dissected (prosected) and not the benefits of having a practical and cadavers as clearly you have both in either course structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 30, 2013 Moderator Share Posted October 30, 2013 I had the best of both worlds. I did a 2 quarter A+P course with dissection as an undergrad which was awesome then did a 2 quarter A+P course with prosection during PA school. the lab portion of undergrad was much better than the PA school lab but the didactic in PA school was much better than in undergrad(in undergrad the lecture portion was taught by a marine biologist who was reading 1 chapter in the book ahead of us- in PA school it was taught by an MD, PhD anatomist). If I had to do it over I would want the dissection with a quality didactic component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoRyou Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I haven't been through PA school yet, but a full cadaver dissection is definitely something I'm looking for in a program. I understand that as PAs we might not need to know anatomy in that much detail, especially for people going into a non-surgical field, but it's kind of a right of passage of a medical education, and I truly want that experience. If that's something you value, then you might want to look for that opportunity in the PA school you choose. If it's not something you really want, then it doesn't need to be a factor in your choice to attend or not attend any certain program. I would have to concur with your statement I, too, have NOT been through PA school YET, and truth be told I just 'assumed' that there would be cadavers in ALL the PA schools. I can see how there would be some anxiety as well as some excitement when a PA student anticipates their first cadaver dissection. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00276-013-1075-7 I personally would be favor for the cadaver dissection. Being a kinesthetic learner like someone already mentioned I think WE all should learn from the real thing there would is NO substitution IMO. It is one thing as an UG looking and reading pics all day, but when you are at this level; - PA-S WE ALL should be experiencing the real thing (so to speak) - cadavers NOT polymer, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discogenic Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm surprised that anyone associated with any PA program would ever say that PAs don't need to learn anatomy in detail. That sounds crazy to me. I've had the fortunate opportunity to do cadaver dissection not once but twice. In my opinion, there is no substitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febrifuge Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 That is an interesting study. Reason I am asking is because when I went to check out a school, I was told that as a PA I would not need to know human anatomy in such detail unless I was going to be a surgeon. Cadaver dissection uses up a lot of time and that time could be spent else where in studying. My school solved that problem by cramming Gross Anatomy into our first term, the Summer one. We got about 80-90% of what the med students get over Fall and Winter, according to the profs. Five hours a day, some days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatChecko Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 My school solved that problem by cramming Gross Anatomy into our first term, the Summer one. We got about 80-90% of what the med students get over Fall and Winter, according to the profs. Five hours a day, some days. Same here, one hour or so in class and three hours in lab a day, plus the time spent in lab afterwards. I really enjoyed doing it during the summer months and thought it was a great way to ease into PA school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I thought dissection was important as a student, and I have to say that I feel even more strongly about it now that I'm working. I think my job would be a lot more difficult if I hadn't done a dissection lab. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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