What is the differences between PA and RN/NP?

[forgivexforget]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm a Pre-PA student who recently graduated college. I was on my way to apply for PA school next year, but I recently started working in the ER of a pretty well-known hospital. From my experience as a technician there, I love talking to patients. I love helping patients, even when if it's little things like saying "my shift is done now, good luck with everything". It is one of the greatest feelings for me to be able to go in and out of a patient's room, asking if they need anything.

 

From what I've observed (and maybe I am totally wrong, which is why I am coming to you guys!), it seems like the nursing team is predominantly responsible for doing these kinds of tasks. It seems like a lot of the PA's and MD's are mostly on the other side, filling in charts, doing consults and going into the room only a few times to do procedures or get a medical history. And when there is a medication to give or an intervention to perform, sometimes the nurses are the ones who are doing this.

 

Now, I've heard that NP's are similar to PA's in that they are also focused on the diagnostic aspect of patient care. Do you believe that NP's and PA's are different? Are my assumptions about the RN/PA differences incorrect? What made you go into PA rather than nursing?

 

I would love to get the input of some of you since many of you are skilled and experienced professional PA's, who have worked with many sorts of occupations. Thank you in advance!

[forgivexforget]

Apparently I also can't use proper grammar...sorry for the typo in the thread title!

[cbrsmurf]

have you tried searching for this topic? it has been discussed many times

 

generally, both PA's and NP's have similar roles in medicine

[Guest JMPA]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm a Pre-PA student who recently graduated college. I was on my way to apply for PA school next year, but I recently started working in the ER of a pretty well-known hospital. From my experience as a technician there, I love talking to patients. I love helping patients, even when if it's little things like saying "my shift is done now, good luck with everything". It is one of the greatest feelings for me to be able to go in and out of a patient's room, asking if they need anything.

 

From what I've observed (and maybe I am totally wrong, which is why I am coming to you guys!), it seems like the nursing team is predominantly responsible for doing these kinds of tasks. It seems like a lot of the PA's and MD's are mostly on the other side, filling in charts, doing consults and going into the room only a few times to do procedures or get a medical history. And when there is a medication to give or an intervention to perform, sometimes the nurses are the ones who are doing this.

 

Now, I've heard that NP's are similar to PA's in that they are also focused on the diagnostic aspect of patient care. Do you believe that NP's and PA's are different? Are my assumptions about the RN/PA differences incorrect? What made you go into PA rather than nursing?

 

I would love to get the input of some of you since many of you are skilled and experienced professional PA's, who have worked with many sorts of occupations. Thank you in advance!

 

A pa is just an assistant while a np is a practitioner

[Boatswain2PA]

A pa is just an assistant while a np is a practitioner

 

Either JMPA forgot to turn on the sarcasm font, or he is a troll.....or he is completely ignorant. One of the three.

 

Clinically there isn't much difference between a PA and NP, although they have vastly different educational processes and political strengths. I doubt many patients can tell the difference between the care given by the two.

 

There is, however, a huge difference between a PA and a nurse.

 

If you want to practice medicine, go to med school. If med school is not an option, then look at PA. If you want to practice nursing, then go RN. If you are a nurse who wants to practice medicine, then go NP.

[ventana]

Either JMPA forgot to turn on the sarcasm font, or he is a troll.....or he is completely ignorant. One of the three.

 

Clinically there isn't much difference between a PA and NP, although they have vastly different educational processes and political strengths. I doubt many patients can tell the difference between the care given by the two.

 

There is, however, a huge difference between a PA and a nurse.

 

If you want to practice medicine, go to med school. If med school is not an option, then look at PA. If you want to practice nursing, then go RN. If you are a nurse who wants to practice medicine, then go NP.

 

 

well put

 

 

I would stress there is a HUGE difference in the education of the PA versus NP - enough that it is scary but shows how good political activism is more important then good education

[UpRegulated]

It seems like a lot of the PA's and MD's are mostly on the other side, filling in charts, doing consults and going into the room only a few times to do procedures or get a medical history. And when there is a medication to give or an intervention to perform, sometimes the nurses are the ones who are doing this.

 

Now, I've heard that NP's are similar to PA's in that they are also focused on the diagnostic aspect of patient care. Do you believe that NP's and PA's are different? Are my assumptions about the RN/PA differences incorrect?

 

I worked as an ER tech while becoming an RN and now I am in NP school. What you describe as the part of your job that you like (the frequent, personal interaction with patients) is more possible in the ER as a tech and RN. At the provider level, MD/DO, PA, and NP work similarly, i.e. there is far less patient interaction on the level that you describe. If you like a lot of patient interaction, then maybe RN is the way to go (but even then, you sometimes just don't have the time).

[paprospect24]

well put

 

 

I would stress there is a HUGE difference in the education of the PA versus NP - enough that it is scary but shows how good political activism is more important then good education

 

Aside from the modality of education can you elaborate on the glaring differences?

[EMEDPA]

Aside from the modality of education can you elaborate on the glaring differences?

clinical hours:

typical pa program 1500-3000 hrs over 1 year full time.

typical np program 500-800 hrs over 1 year part time.

prerqs:

pa school heavy sciences

np school not so much

didacics:

pa school basically 2nd yr of medschool with some of ms1 thrown in

np school much of the same but more "soft" courses

 

don't get me wrong. I know of and have worked with some great nps but there is a big difference between an er or icu nurse of many years who goes to a solid np program and many of the direct entry folks today doing it mostly online.

[edwinjvazquez]

This goes unnoticed but most DE programs require at least one year work experience in your major area before you begin clinicals. The exception to this is FNP and PNP. Vanderbilt for example requires 2 years ICU or ER experience in order to begin the ACNP, P-ACNP or ER track.

[Just Steve]

Good job on getting some experience. That is a good start.

 

The role/interaction a PA has with a patient expands and contracts with the field of medicine they work in. Shadow a PA in family practice and you'll see a different interface. Same goes for surgery, interventional radiology, ortho...so on and so forth.

 

In an ER setting, it's about task delegation with the MD/PA/NP assigning the tasks. It takes longer to carry out the tasks generally so you'll see the people who follow the orders given spending more time with the patient. During the time that a nurse is doing a foley, dressing change, or medication administration, the provider (MD/PA/NP) will have moved on to other rooms. This is why you'll see a greater number of nurses than providers. A busy ER provider can be working 5-6 rooms at once IF the team (nurses and techs) can keep up with the orders. The team cannot begin most tasks without orders and orders don't really get completed without a team.. it's a group effort for sure.

[Boatswain2PA]

This goes unnoticed but most DE programs require at least one year work experience in your major area before you begin clinicals. The exception to this is FNP and PNP. Vanderbilt for example requires 2 years ICU or ER experience in order to begin the ACNP, P-ACNP or ER track.

 

The key-word there is "most". There are some very good NP programs, but there are a lot of NP programs that are happy to just take your graduate tuition while you take soft management (aka: "Holistic Nursing Theory") courses.

 

Beyond the great statistics that EMEDPA threw out, another huge difference between PA and NP education is that PA programs are standardized and approved by the NCCPA. Every single PA program has much the same curricula because it WORKS, and the curricula is enforced by the NCCPA which routinely performs accreditation checks. There is no standardization in NP programs which mean that some are very good, and some just take your graduate tuition to read on-line powerpoint presentations and then set up your own 500 hours of clinical rotations.

[Guest JMPA]

The key-word there is "most". There are some very good NP programs, but there are a lot of NP programs that are happy to just take your graduate tuition while you take soft management (aka: "Holistic Nursing Theory") courses.

 

Beyond the great statistics that EMEDPA threw out, another huge difference between PA and NP education is that PA programs are standardized and approved by the NCCPA. Every single PA program has much the same curricula because it WORKS, and the curricula is enforced by the NCCPA which routinely performs accreditation checks. There is no standardization in NP programs which mean that some are very good, and some just take your graduate tuition to read on-line powerpoint presentations and then set up your own 500 hours of clinical rotations.

I do not believe that is correct. If it was left to nccpa then we would all be in trouble. ARCPA is the commission that accredits the physician assistant programs. It use to be accredited by the AMA.

[Boatswain2PA]

Of course. ARC-PA accredits the programs. And only graduates of ARC-PA programs can take the PANCE which is given by the NCCPA. My fingers were flying faster than my brain.

[edwinjvazquez]

The intention of online NP programs was to accommodate experienced , working RNs. I'm not saying that new grads aren't accepted into these programs , but they are less competitive for admissions than RNs with experience. The DE programs that I have investigated are all brick and mortar, and set up the clinicals. There are some that do have a large online component but they tend to be major specific (FNP, ANP,PNP). I dont know of any online ACNP programs that do not require previous ICU experience. I was accepted into Case Western's MN program but chose an accelerated ADN program (1 year) instead. My plan is to get CCRN before I apply for ACNP.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

The intention of online NP programs was to accommodate experienced , working RNs. I'm not saying that new grads aren't accepted into these programs , but they are less competitive for admissions than RNs with experience. The DE programs that I have investigated are all brick and mortar, and set up the clinicals. There are some that do have a large online component but they tend to be major specific (FNP, ANP,PNP). I dont know of any online ACNP programs that do not require previous ICU experience. I was accepted into Case Western's MN program but chose an accelerated ADN program (1 year) instead. My plan is to get CCRN before I apply for ACNP.

 

UAB has online DE ACNP requiring no experience.

 

O'neal BSN, RN, CCRN

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[EMEDPA]

vanderbilt has an accelerated bs to np program in 2 years.

bs in non-nursing field to msn/np. two years. no experience required.

year 1 2nd degree(bsn)

year 2 msn/fnp.

[edwinjvazquez]

http://www.uab.edu/nursing/home/images/stories/info_sa/MSN_Flyer_NP_RN_First_Assist.pdf

 

"The Adult Acute and Continuing Care faculty highly recommend that students admitted to the ACNP specialty track have at least one year, of professional nursing experience prior to enrolling in the advanced nursing clinical courses. Your program of study can be arranged so that you can gain the required experience while you are taking prerequisite courses. If you elect to take this route, you will be in a part-time program of study."

 

I'm not trolling guys and I'm not implying that NP training is better than PA. Im just saying that most online NP majors require some outside experience.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Still online, still DE, and that was a recommendation that was often waived. I know because I was there. I saw plenty of friends start that programs with no experience. Some got the experience while taking classes, some didn't. I know they never checked.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Double post

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

Don't mistake my presenting of facts as a slight against NPs. It's not. I've worked with many fine NPs and feel PAs/NPs should work on more issues together.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[CoastalPalm]

UAB has online DE ACNP requiring no experience.

 

O'neal BSN, RN, CCRN

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

Seems a little more complicated:

 

What kind of nursing experience do I need prior to entering the program?

The acute and continuing care faculty highly recommends that students admitted to the ACNP study option have at least one year, and preferably two years, of professional nursing experience in the field of critical care nursing prior to enrolling in the advanced nursing clinical courses. Additionally, ACLS certification is highly recommended. Your program of study can be arranged so that you can gain the required experience while you are taking prerequisite courses. Should this be the case, you will have to pursue a part-time program of study.

http://www.uab.edu/nursing/home/images/stories/info_sa/MSN_Flyer_NP_Adult_Acute_Cont_Care.pdf

[CoastalPalm]

http://www.uab.edu/nursing/home/images/stories/info_sa/MSN_Flyer_NP_RN_First_Assist.pdf

 

"The Adult Acute and Continuing Care faculty highly recommend that students admitted to the ACNP specialty track have at least one year, of professional nursing experience prior to enrolling in the advanced nursing clinical courses. Your program of study can be arranged so that you can gain the required experience while you are taking prerequisite courses. If you elect to take this route, you will be in a part-time program of study."

 

I'm not trolling guys and I'm not implying that NP training is better than PA. Im just saying that most online NP majors require some outside experience.

 

Whoops, just saw this :).

[dananeal]

Though NA and PA and RN profile seems to be similar but the difference really lies in their training and background. An RN performs great range of duties such as recording medical histories, examining patients, providing treatment, and assisting in the administration of diagnostic tests whereas an NP can do all of the things that are an RN known for but additionally they can also order diagnostic tests and interpret test results. And physician assistant performs many of the task of an RN or NP, but he or she must work under the supervision of a physician or surgeon and cannot operate an independent practice.

[True Anomaly]

Though NA and PA and RN profile seems to be similar but the difference really lies in their training and background. An RN performs great range of duties such as recording medical histories, examining patients, providing treatment, and assisting in the administration of diagnostic tests whereas an NP can do all of the things that are an RN known for but additionally they can also order diagnostic tests and interpret test results. And physician assistant performs many of the task of an RN or NP, but he or she must work under the supervision of a physician or surgeon and cannot operate an independent practice.

 

Did you read this in Parenting magazine, or a similar rag?