PA or MD?

[EMEDPA]

Man that is rough business. Did he ask for an abnormal amount of time or something?

he asked for 1 week. denied. we had several folks out on sick leave at the time and so he couldn't take time off. it's an older group and there is almost always someone out for extended sick leave or a long vacation approved months in advvance.

[Dynamo24]

he asked for 1 week. denied. we had several folks out on sick leave at the time and so he couldn't take time off. it's an older group and there is almost always someone out for extended sick leave or a long vacation approved months in advvance.

 

Well at least it wasn't people just being jerks, its hard to argue with those reasons. I don't think I would be as mad about that vs. if people were just unwilling to help out or be flexible which is what said future resident is going through.

[Dynamo24]

he asked for 1 week. denied. we had several folks out on sick leave at the time and so he couldn't take time off. it's an older group and there is almost always someone out for extended sick leave or a long vacation approved months in advvance.

 

Well at least it wasn't people just being jerks, its hard to argue with those reasons. I don't think I would be as mad about that vs. if people were just unwilling to help out or be flexible which is what said future resident is going through.

[PAorMDhopeful]

does this hypothetical 25 yr old have significant prior medical experience?

why is starting a family before 30 so important? nothing wrong with having kids at 35....I was 33 when my first was born.

keep in mind only the first and second yr of medical school are big time sinks. 3rd yr is basically 2nd yr of pa school, busy but not terrible. 4th yr is a vacation yr for electives and residency interviews.

internship is tough but unless you do surgery 2nd and 3rd yr are not too bad. I frequently put in more hrs than the 2nd and 3rd yr fp residents I work with.

a cush fp residency can be 45-55 hrs/week for the 2nd and 3rd yr.

I worked with an fp resident who had a baby every single yr of residency(yup, 3 kids in 3 yrs) and graduated on time.

for those who want medicine to be "just a job" and are happy in the assistant role PA is a good gig. if medicine is your passion and you can make med school work I encourage you to do so. many folks with a passion for medicine end up frustrated and feeling constrained as PAs.

docs who complain about medicine generally complain more about the administrative hassles than anything. PAs face those too (emr's, dealing with insurance companies and credentialing committees) so if you are in for the same hassles anyway why not complain from a position of greater influence? a position in which you are more respected, have a better schedule, scope of practice, and salary?

 

 

I would say that this hypothetical 25 year old has enough clinical experience to see miserable, burnt out physicians on a daily basis. This is a scary sight knowing how many MORE disgruntled physicians there are than happy ones (completely anecdotal, but it counts for something).

 

But anyways -- what would an argument be FOR becoming an MD/DO with all of this hype about NPs/DNPs/PAs "taking over" (specifically nursing...I was reading the same thread on SDN that you commented on earlier). If non-physician providers like NPs & PAs continue pushing for more autonomy at a cheaper cost in comparison to their MD/DO counterparts, what might this look like in 10 years? Physicians being forced to specialize/sub-specialize (MORE years of training) so they can stay marketable? When push comes to shove, the people in hiring positions will choose the cheaper option (PA/NP) over another physician. Right? So why become an MD if there are so many concerns about where the profession will be in 10-20 years?

[PAorMDhopeful]

does this hypothetical 25 yr old have significant prior medical experience?

why is starting a family before 30 so important? nothing wrong with having kids at 35....I was 33 when my first was born.

keep in mind only the first and second yr of medical school are big time sinks. 3rd yr is basically 2nd yr of pa school, busy but not terrible. 4th yr is a vacation yr for electives and residency interviews.

internship is tough but unless you do surgery 2nd and 3rd yr are not too bad. I frequently put in more hrs than the 2nd and 3rd yr fp residents I work with.

a cush fp residency can be 45-55 hrs/week for the 2nd and 3rd yr.

I worked with an fp resident who had a baby every single yr of residency(yup, 3 kids in 3 yrs) and graduated on time.

for those who want medicine to be "just a job" and are happy in the assistant role PA is a good gig. if medicine is your passion and you can make med school work I encourage you to do so. many folks with a passion for medicine end up frustrated and feeling constrained as PAs.

docs who complain about medicine generally complain more about the administrative hassles than anything. PAs face those too (emr's, dealing with insurance companies and credentialing committees) so if you are in for the same hassles anyway why not complain from a position of greater influence? a position in which you are more respected, have a better schedule, scope of practice, and salary?

 

 

I would say that this hypothetical 25 year old has enough clinical experience to see miserable, burnt out physicians on a daily basis. This is a scary sight knowing how many MORE disgruntled physicians there are than happy ones (completely anecdotal, but it counts for something).

 

But anyways -- what would an argument be FOR becoming an MD/DO with all of this hype about NPs/DNPs/PAs "taking over" (specifically nursing...I was reading the same thread on SDN that you commented on earlier). If non-physician providers like NPs & PAs continue pushing for more autonomy at a cheaper cost in comparison to their MD/DO counterparts, what might this look like in 10 years? Physicians being forced to specialize/sub-specialize (MORE years of training) so they can stay marketable? When push comes to shove, the people in hiring positions will choose the cheaper option (PA/NP) over another physician. Right? So why become an MD if there are so many concerns about where the profession will be in 10-20 years?

[Contrarian]

Well isn't that part of negotiating a contract vs. begging for a position to be matched at? Isn't that kind of your fault if you don't take that into consideration when trying to find a job? I'm not saying that all PA jobs guarantee you time off whenever you need it, but for circumstances like that most jobs try to accommodate a little better than 5 days.

 

Yeah... naive'ty...

 

Your contract means Schitt... cause you are a DEPENDENT provider.

 

The piece you are missing is that YOU could have 1200 HAPPY and satisfied cash paying patients on your panel.

The physician who supervises you can fall and bump his head tonight and withdraw "supervision" on a whim first thing in the morning.

You are now unemployed and it may take weeks---> months--->a year to find another job.

 

In a private practice setting... Your supervising physician's spouse could take a disliking to you and you are done.

 

Its that simple.

[Contrarian]

Well isn't that part of negotiating a contract vs. begging for a position to be matched at? Isn't that kind of your fault if you don't take that into consideration when trying to find a job? I'm not saying that all PA jobs guarantee you time off whenever you need it, but for circumstances like that most jobs try to accommodate a little better than 5 days.

 

Yeah... naive'ty...

 

Your contract means Schitt... cause you are a DEPENDENT provider.

 

The piece you are missing is that YOU could have 1200 HAPPY and satisfied cash paying patients on your panel.

The physician who supervises you can fall and bump his head tonight and withdraw "supervision" on a whim first thing in the morning.

You are now unemployed and it may take weeks---> months--->a year to find another job.

 

In a private practice setting... Your supervising physician's spouse could take a disliking to you and you are done.

 

Its that simple.

[sartort]

Waiting until you are 35 to have kids...well, what if you want two or three, a couple of years apart? Now you are almost 40. Assuming you can still get pregnant, is that the age you want to be when you are raising an infant, a toddler. Do you want to be in your mid to late 50's when you are raising teenagers? Or would you rather be pregnant during a residency? Some people have children while in PA school, so I'm sure some do during med school too. You could always go that route. Or adopt. Gender may play a role in this decision if these are the reasons you choose one over the other. Personally I chose PA because of my amazing experiences with them, my love of the profession, and the lateral mobility. Because they were my role models in medicine, I was impressed with them every day, and the doctors I worked with or have seen as a patient, in my opinion, were missing something that I wanted to see in my healthcare provider. Maybe it's because PAs work their asses off for less money and less prestige. The personality suited me better. I didn't have a desire to be a doctor, I had and still have a desire to be a PA. My age did not play a role in my decision at all and I truly don't think it should be a deciding factor for anyone.

[sartort]

Waiting until you are 35 to have kids...well, what if you want two or three, a couple of years apart? Now you are almost 40. Assuming you can still get pregnant, is that the age you want to be when you are raising an infant, a toddler. Do you want to be in your mid to late 50's when you are raising teenagers? Or would you rather be pregnant during a residency? Some people have children while in PA school, so I'm sure some do during med school too. You could always go that route. Or adopt. Gender may play a role in this decision if these are the reasons you choose one over the other. Personally I chose PA because of my amazing experiences with them, my love of the profession, and the lateral mobility. Because they were my role models in medicine, I was impressed with them every day, and the doctors I worked with or have seen as a patient, in my opinion, were missing something that I wanted to see in my healthcare provider. Maybe it's because PAs work their asses off for less money and less prestige. The personality suited me better. I didn't have a desire to be a doctor, I had and still have a desire to be a PA. My age did not play a role in my decision at all and I truly don't think it should be a deciding factor for anyone.

[Dynamo24]

Yeah... naive'ty...

 

Your contract means Schitt... cause you are a DEPENDENT provider.

 

The piece you are missing is that YOU could have 1200 HAPPY and satisfied cash paying patients on your panel.

The physician who supervises you can fall and bump his head tonight and withdraw "supervision" on a whim first thing in the morning.

You are now unemployed and it may take weeks---> months--->a year to find another job.

 

In a private practice setting... Your supervising physician's spouse could take a disliking to you and you are done.

 

Its that simple.

 

Man I should get into being a stock broker then...sounds safer and more secure than PA.

[Dynamo24]

Yeah... naive'ty...

 

Your contract means Schitt... cause you are a DEPENDENT provider.

 

The piece you are missing is that YOU could have 1200 HAPPY and satisfied cash paying patients on your panel.

The physician who supervises you can fall and bump his head tonight and withdraw "supervision" on a whim first thing in the morning.

You are now unemployed and it may take weeks---> months--->a year to find another job.

 

In a private practice setting... Your supervising physician's spouse could take a disliking to you and you are done.

 

Its that simple.

 

Man I should get into being a stock broker then...sounds safer and more secure than PA.