underserved Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Hey guys, Im a new grad and took an ER job a few months ago and realized that it wasn't for me. I found an FP job and the doc is offering a base of 85k plus a percentage of what I'm able to collect. The problem is that I'm not sure what percentage to ask for. The doc is a solo provider and I will be meeting with her tomorrow to discuss compensation in details. Please advise. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebecker Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Other benefits? If there are no other benefits then I'd throw out 15% and see how it floats. If there are other benefits, 10% on top of 85k/yr is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 One way is to make your total money compensation from (low end) 33% to 50% (extremely good). So, you need to figure out what that percentage equals of your collections. Then you subtract your base pay and you get the difference in a bonus. So if your base pay was $7,000/month, and you collected $30,000 that month and you agreed to the 33%, you would take 33% of 30 = $10,000 - base pay of $7,000 = bonus that month of $3,000. If that makes sense. I pay my SP at 50% and would pay a PA at 50% if I hire one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted January 9, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 9, 2013 that is a great starting salary for FP/IM for a new grad Then to add on a productivity would be great I would say pie in the sky is 50% of that anything over 200% of you salary as a bonus - paid quarterly..... Even 30% of 200% of collections is great - maybe even try for monthly..... Will say that you need to have FULL access to billing info for all your patients - otherwise it likely gets manipulated and you never can tell what is going on in the back office...... if you could get 85k plus full health plus some type of retirement matching plus 30% of collections over 200% of your salary paid montlhly and you have about the best job out there!! good luck,keep us updated oh yeah... the most important thing for the first few years is mentoring, if he doesn't want to teach RUN away and come back with experience to settle in for the long run..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underserved Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hey guys, thanks a bunch! I met with her today. She said 3% on anything over 30k for that month. So if I collect 33k, I get 3% on that 3k. Not sure if I'm making sense. I thought that's quite low. She claimed that 3% was what she got from previous group before she went solo. At any rate I have another interview tomorrow and will keep y'all updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic207 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Benjamin Make sure you know what the typical volume is (ie: how many pts a day is typically available to be seen) 1) will the front schedule you pts from all financial classes? 2) do you know what the office charges are? If they are charging $75.00 a visit you would need to see about 20 a day every day to hit just the 30,000 mark. (Based on 4 five day weeks a month) 3) will malpractice, CME, sick time and health insurance be included? 4) as a new grad, will you be able to see 20 a day, and do you feel comfortable with that? 5) will the SP be insure? You may have a good deal, just make sure you know all the details of what your getting into and keep us informed! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic207 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 5) will the SP be onsite? .... Auto correct on the iPhone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FfIghter23 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Wow, 3% on everything over $30,000 is practically nothing. There would be no incentive for me with that set-up. You would have to see a crazy amount of patients to even make a few hundred bucks production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Border Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 that productivity is a joke and insulting to even offer $30k/month is over $300,000k per year with typcial time off (and by the way unless you take you time off all in one big block you will loose productivity each month and never meet your goal - although you will never meet you goal anyways.. this is a salary position in the reality so look at bennies look at health insurance (EVERY job except for my first paif 100% for full family coverage) Retirement needs to be ATLEAST 5% match on 401k all the way up to a 10k kicker if you can get it PTO needs to be in the 6 weeks a year GET everything in writing, this sounds like a slippery offer with lots of holes in it..... your counter should be somthing like this $85k per year full family health insurance 6 weeks pto $2500 CME to be spent as you see fit (she doesn't get to choose what you spend on) no bonus for first year in second year and there after you get $33% of collections that exceed (7083 x 2 = $14,166) $14,000 per month Therefor at end of typcial year You generate $250k in receipts for practice You get paid $85,000 you get 33% of the collections over $170k (100% of your salary for overhead) = $250,000 - $170,000 = $80,000 x 33% = $24,000 You will have a total pay of $109,000 You will have generated $141,000 for the practice - you likely will use about $80-90,000 in keepiing you employed so you have made about $50,000 profit for her... The CME and 401k comes out of the $90k for overhead.... So in the end she make about $50k for employing you... not to bad Don't be in my position Getting $80k per year, $100oCME, full health (11k) for a total compensation of about $95k BUT generated in reciepts about $225k for the practice - I have no assigned MA, take a 80% of full rotation of call, work my toosh off, see 30 patients a day 3 days a week in a 10-11 hour day and get a $500 christmas bonus.... yeah!!! so I actually made in cash for my practice something like $60,000!! and mean while I am broke.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 6 weeks vacation ? hah I thought that only happened in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 so obviously I know nothing of negotiations but it does help to read these posts as i progress through my program. with that said.....isn't 109k a year pretty high for a new grad especially in FP? Ive seen people post on here about at a min MDs in FP make about 175 - 200k. Also the AAPA puts FP at about 65-85k average....is that just base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic207 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 so obviously I know nothing of negotiations but it does help to read these posts as i progress through my program. with that said.....isn't 109k a year pretty high for a new grad especially in FP? Ive seen people post on here about at a min MDs in FP make about 175 - 200k. Also the AAPA puts FP at about 65-85k average....is that just base? I don't think it's high at all since he would only get that pay if he were really productive. No PA, in my opinion, should be working for private MDs/clinics or hospital administrators in whom have the mindset that PAs are just to be counted as cheap extra labor. A lot of employers see our profession and really are mystified when it comes to salary. For example I know hospital admins who underneath the smile, feel that PAs should not be making very much, they cringe at the fact in some places that PAs make as much as them and that drives them nuts! We should all be advocating to be paid well. While it will vary based on location and setting the bottom line is there are too many PAs willing to work for cheap and too many employers paying the cheap wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuma102 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 typically youre not a net positive for the group until after 2 years. Asking for a cut up front in your first year is silly - you have no leverage and no experience. Ask for escalating increases, and get it in writing. Friend got a derm job about 8 years ago. **VERY** busy office- we're talking she clocks 80 patients in an 8 hour day, if not more. The doc routinely hits 120. First year, 75K. Second year 80K. Third year, 80K + 10% over 300K. fourth yr 80k + 20% fifth year 80k+ 30%. max of 40%. She hits 300k in collections within 3-4 months. I dont know about the rest of the country, but for the greater New York City area, this is as good as it gets. Asking for 30% up front is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 very true. i know it varies person to person but how long should it take someone to become that productive? I don't think it's high at all since he would only get that pay if he were really productive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_me Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Is it typical to negotiate an increase in production bonus only and not base as well? or would this depend on how busy the office is and the probablity of hitting the production bonus early i.e. your friends situation vs an office that is not so busy and collection is not met until further into the year typically youre not a net positive for the group until after 2 years. Asking for a cut up front in your first year is silly - you have no leverage and no experience. Ask for escalating increases, and get it in writing. Friend got a derm job about 8 years ago. **VERY** busy office- we're talking she clocks 80 patients in an 8 hour day, if not more. The doc routinely hits 120. First year, 75K. Second year 80K. Third year, 80K + 10% over 300K. fourth yr 80k + 20% fifth year 80k+ 30%. max of 40%. She hits 300k in collections within 3-4 months. I dont know about the rest of the country, but for the greater New York City area, this is as good as it gets. Asking for 30% up front is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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