Working Interview - is it legal?

[8123]

Apologies if this is in the wrong forum. I'm a new grad who's been called for a "working" interview at an urgent care. My license is still in process, so I was wondering what I should expect and what are the limits to this? Is it just shadowing, taking HPIs, etc. but not actually doing PEs, etc. on patients? Can't find much info about this online for the medical field, so all your help is very appreciated!

[Lightspeed]

You aren’t trained on their EMR system, so you probably won’t need to be do anything other than interact, assess, plan, and communicate that to the provider that’s going to be with you in the room. It’s most likely they want to make sure you aren’t a weirdo with their patients, and get a glimpse at your skills.
 

I’d pass. It’s offensive to me that anyone would “test me”, and I’d decline and move on....if I even gave them any further conversation at all. I’d be fine telling them how I feel about that too. That’s even as a new grad. 

[UGoLong]

I personally see nothing wrong with being interviewed in this way. They haven't the slightest idea who you "are" and vice versa. You'll get to see how they interact with you and they get an idea of your interpersonal skills.

Big question: What is really the worst thing that could happen if you do this? You won't get the job (or won't want the job). Which is precisely what will happen if you turn down the interview.

[thinkertdm]

It’s probably just shadowing.  I can’t imagine any workplace allowing a non employee on the work floor.  Do they ask crane operators to come on down and take the cranes for a spin, before they are hired?  What if you had a needle stick injury?  Not covered under workers comp, because you are not a worker.  
“Hey, Dr Jones, let’s have you come in for a ‘working interview’ in surgery, see how things work out”.  Malpractice lawyers would start planning their retirement.

You already have (or will have) two things that attest to your skill and knowledge and competency. One is your certification.  The other is your state license.  

[Lightspeed]

1 hour ago, thinkertdm said:

You already have (or will have) two things that attest to your skill and knowledge and competency. One is your certification.  The other is your state license.  

Yep. And an interview or two with the admin and other providers should solve the mystery as to whether you interact well with others, without the pettiness of participating in that entire exercise... new grad or not. To have to go out and demonstrate anything to them in action is humiliating for a provider. Even as an RN, I’d have shown myself out. I’m embarrassed for any NP or PA forced to do that. How do you think a physician (even fresh out of residency) would feel if they made that a condition of the hiring process? They’d keep looking, because it would reflect bad on the practice. But a practice would never do that to a physician. 

The temptation for me would be to go in, perform their test, have them realize I’m a great fit for the job and make me an offer, and then turn them down after letting them know that they failed my test for them regarding treating me as a potential valued employee.

No... if they want me to practice treating a patient, I’ll want them to practice paying me and dealing with me appropriately. The moment that an organization asks me to do that instead of figuring things out through their interview process, they’ve failed my test for them. That’s the point where you politely thank them for their time and decline to waste any more of it. 

[Lightspeed]

At first I felt like shadowing was potentially reasonable and benign vs them seeing you in action. But I loved the mention above regarding the potential liability of simply being out in their work environment and risking something happening that makes the practice liable for your safety. Even the disclosure of confidential information potentially complicates the circumstances for you. If a patient revealed something that implicated someone else in a crime, you’d be a witness to that revelation. If a patient made an accusation or filed a lawsuit based on anything they perceived, then you are a party to it. I was going to shadow an autopsy a long time ago, and opted out when I came to the realization that I could have future plans affected due to a summons, even years later, just for being in the room. As part of a job, that’s fine... that possibility is inherent to the role. For an interview....nope. And that can be your way out of you feel the job market is just too tight to stand up to them on other grounds. The answer is “as much as I’d like to, I just feel like it opens you guys up to liability, and it opens me up to having to get in on confidential patient information that I’m not officially sanctioned to be privy to”. 

Edited October 20, 2019 by Lightspeed

[thinkertdm]

40 minutes ago, Lightspeed said:

At first I felt like shadowing was potentially reasonable and benign vs them seeing you in action. But I loved the mention above regarding the potential liability of simply being out in their work environment and risking something happening that makes the practice liable for your safety. Even the disclosure of confidential information potentially complicates the circumstances for you. If a patient revealed something that implicated someone else in a crime, you’d be a witness to that revelation. If a patient made an accusation or filed a lawsuit based on anything they perceived, then you are a party to it. I was going to shadow an autopsy a long time ago, and opted out when I came to the realization that I could have future plans affected due to a summons, even years later, just for being in the room. As part of a job, that’s fine... that possibility is inherent to the role. For an interview....nope. And that can be your way out of you feel the job market is just too tight to stand up to them on other grounds. The answer is “as much as I’d like to, I just feel like it opens you guys up to liability, and it opens me up to having to get in on confidential patient information that I’m not officially sanctioned to be privy to”. 

Excellent point.  Also remember, however, that you are interviewing them.  You don’t want to see them at their best, you want to see them- the office, the internal workings- and how you fit it.  I went to an interview once - I didn’t sit in with any patients, but I was sitting with one of the md’s, who was showing me their emr.  The phone rang, I think it was a medical assistant or receptionist- and was rude to them on the phone.  My belief is look at how people treat other people whom they don’t need to treat well.

i made my exit and never called back.  It wasn’t for me.  

[Cideous]

Don't....Touch....Anything.  Including anything related to patients.

[rev ronin]

1 hour ago, Cideous said:

Don't....Touch....Anything.  Including anything related to patients.

I think that's my fundamental take on it.  Sure, go shadow with them, and maybe discuss the case afterwards, but the clinician doing the interviewing owns the patient interaction, interventions/plan, and the charting... never the PA being interviewed.

[8123]

Thank you guys, didn't know what to expect! Truly awesome how supportive you guys are and hopefully I can do the same for others in the future. 

For those searching up this topic later on, my "working" interview consisted of shadowing (no interviewing, etc. like Rev said) and discussing the case away from the pt afterwards, and I was also given some peds dosing calculations to do (that sucked).

[ventana]

On 10/19/2019 at 10:22 PM, Lightspeed said:

At first I felt like shadowing was potentially reasonable and benign vs them seeing you in action. But I loved the mention above regarding the potential liability of simply being out in their work environment and risking something happening that makes the practice liable for your safety. Even the disclosure of confidential information potentially complicates the circumstances for you. If a patient revealed something that implicated someone else in a crime, you’d be a witness to that revelation. If a patient made an accusation or filed a lawsuit based on anything they perceived, then you are a party to it. I was going to shadow an autopsy a long time ago, and opted out when I came to the realization that I could have future plans affected due to a summons, even years later, just for being in the room. As part of a job, that’s fine... that possibility is inherent to the role. For an interview....nope. And that can be your way out of you feel the job market is just too tight to stand up to them on other grounds. The answer is “as much as I’d like to, I just feel like it opens you guys up to liability, and it opens me up to having to get in on confidential patient information that I’m not officially sanctioned to be privy to”. 

I would disagree, with this logic you should not even interview as you might see something in the office or clinic.

I think making sure that you are aware of the HIPPA issues, do not touch or interact with a patient, just be a wall flower and all is good.  I would suspect that they are just wanting to make sure you can interact with staff and not be a bozo 

 

As for a Doc getting insulted - I am in the midst of trying to hire a doc, and I will indeed have them come in and spend a day in the office.  Not to assess skills as they are licensed (Which actually does not prove they are competent BTW) but instead do they 'fit' in the office.  The MA, office folks, biller, receptionist all will get the opportunity to interact with them and afterwards a discussion can happen about any red flags.  

Again it is not about medicine, it is about personality