CAdamsPAC Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Texas Hospital Refuses to Hire Potential Employees if Body Mass Index Shows Obesity Updated: Friday, 06 Apr 2012, 9:57 PM CDT Published : Friday, 06 Apr 2012, 9:10 PM CDT FOX Chicago News Chicago - How overweight is “too overweight” to get a job? A hospital in Texas is now measuring potential employees for their body mass index, or BMI. Bottom line: if they don't "measure up," they're not getting a job at Citizens Medical Center in Victoria, Texas. A potential employee who is 5 ft. 5 in. won't get the job if they weigh more than 210 lbs. The same goes for someone who is 5 ft. 10 in. and weighs more than 245 lbs. The hospital said it wants to set a good example for healthiness, but that's not all. At least one lawsuit has been filed against the policy. But some attorneys in Texas said the hospital might win, since there are no weight discrimination laws in Texas. "Morbid Obesity" is covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. But "regular” obesity is not. There's no doubt where most of our FOX Chicago Facebook friends stood on this issue Friday night. Those who responded were overwhelmingly against the hospital's policy. Michigan is the only state that specifically bans weight discrimination. There are six cities around the country that have enacted laws against weight discrimination. They include Urbana, Ill. and Madison, Wisc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physasst Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Texas Hospital Refuses to Hire Potential Employees if Body Mass Index Shows Obesity Updated: Friday, 06 Apr 2012, 9:57 PM CDT Published : Friday, 06 Apr 2012, 9:10 PM CDT FOX Chicago News Chicago - How overweight is “too overweight” to get a job? A hospital in Texas is now measuring potential employees for their body mass index, or BMI. Bottom line: if they don't "measure up," they're not getting a job at Citizens Medical Center in Victoria, Texas. A potential employee who is 5 ft. 5 in. won't get the job if they weigh more than 210 lbs. The same goes for someone who is 5 ft. 10 in. and weighs more than 245 lbs. The hospital said it wants to set a good example for healthiness, but that's not all. At least one lawsuit has been filed against the policy. But some attorneys in Texas said the hospital might win, since there are no weight discrimination laws in Texas. "Morbid Obesity" is covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. But "regular” obesity is not. There's no doubt where most of our FOX Chicago Facebook friends stood on this issue Friday night. Those who responded were overwhelmingly against the hospital's policy. Michigan is the only state that specifically bans weight discrimination. There are six cities around the country that have enacted laws against weight discrimination. They include Urbana, Ill. and Madison, Wisc. What about smoking? I know of a number of hospitals, including Cleveland Clinic that test their employees for smoking, and do NOT hire smokers.. They won't fire existing employees who smoke, but for the last 4-5 years they will NOT hire anyone who smokes... Why would you be against this? BTW, I think it's comical that FOX is against this. Those that truly believe in the "free market" should understand that this is an example of market mechanics in action. Companies want to lower health care costs, absenteeism, lost productivity, and long term employee health issues. They will present the face of this being about a "healthy" image, but this is all about reducing costs. If you truly believe in unrestricted capitalism and the free market you should support this (nod to Lucas). Nice that they like to pick and choose when they support it and when they don't.....LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LT_Oneal_PAC Posted April 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2012 What about smoking? I know of a number of hospitals, including Cleveland Clinic that test their employees for smoking, and do NOT hire smokers.. They won't fire existing employees who smoke, but for the last 4-5 years they will NOT hire anyone who smokes... Why would you be against this? BTW, I think it's comical that FOX is against this. Those that truly believe in the "free market" should understand that this is an example of market mechanics in action. Companies want to lower health care costs, absenteeism, lost productivity, and long term employee health issues. They will present the face of this being about a "healthy" image, but this is all about reducing costs. If you truly believe in unrestricted capitalism and the free market you should support this (nod to Lucas). Nice that they like to pick and choose when they support it and when they don't.....LOL. Right on the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taotaox1 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 FOX Chicago News Local affiliates are not the same as the (Faux) Fox News Channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneValgene Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 What about smoking? I know of a number of hospitals, including Cleveland Clinic that test their employees for smoking, and do NOT hire smokers.. They won't fire existing employees who smoke, but for the last 4-5 years they will NOT hire anyone who smokes... as much as i agree...i find it funny that a couple of the best attendings i ever learned from were smokers :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToppDog Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 When employers pay for your health insurance, they can make policies like this, & even worse. Do you know that a small company can legally fire someone for getting cancer because their healthcare premiums will skyrocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted April 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2012 as much as i agree...i find it funny that a couple of the best attendings i ever learned from were smokers :) I always find this strange when docs who should know better do really stupid stuff...one of my first attendings smoked like a chimney and drove a disposable micro car with no airbags or side impact protection( chevy sprint) despite making big bucks and having essentially no debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 What about smoking? I know of a number of hospitals, including Cleveland Clinic that test their employees for smoking, and do NOT hire smokers.. They won't fire existing employees who smoke, but for the last 4-5 years they will NOT hire anyone who smokes... Why would you be against this? BTW, I think it's comical that FOX is against this. Those that truly believe in the "free market" should understand that this is an example of market mechanics in action. Companies want to lower health care costs, absenteeism, lost productivity, and long term employee health issues. They will present the face of this being about a "healthy" image, but this is all about reducing costs. If you truly believe in unrestricted capitalism and the free market you should support this (nod to Lucas). Nice that they like to pick and choose when they support it and when they don't.....LOL. I didn't get the impression that the network was pro or anti just reporting what they were aware of, they did comment on Facebook posting being against the policy not the network. I didn't find any other news reports on this subject.A Chicago station reporting a Texas story caught my attention. I recall the big to do when Salve Regina University kicked a student out of the nursing program b/c she was "too fat" to be a nurse. I do believe a large check passed hands on that one. I think it's smoke and mirrors to reduce costs. I wonder when fertile females will be targeted or married folks with "too many" children may not be acceptable employees? Yep it's a free market, so I think the consumers/customers need to know who they are doing business with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 I came across another story which I think "fleshes out" the original story. I went to the Citizen's Medical Center's web site and took notice of the prominently displayed Bariatric Surgery Program listing! They don't wnat your fat body , except for good reimbursed elective surgery! Texas hospital says fat people need not applyBy Eve Tahmincioglu There have been undercurrents of weight discrimination in the workplace for years, but a Texas hospital decided to go anti-fat full throttle. A Texas newspaper recently reported about a fat-averse Texas hospital — Citizens Medical Center in Victoria, Texas — and its unheard-of policy of refusing to hire anyone with a body mass index of more than 35. The policy, according to The Texas Tribune, states: … an employee’s physique “should fit with a representational image or specific mental projection of the job of a healthcare professional,” including an appearance “free from distraction” for hospital patients. “The majority of our patients are over 65, and they have expectations that cannot be ignored in terms of personal appearance,” hospital chief executive David Brown said in an interview. “We have the ability as an employer to characterize our process and to have a policy that says what’s best for our business and for our patients.” Body mass index is calculated based on height and weight, with a measure over 30 qualifying as obese. A 5-foot-10 man who weighs 245 pounds would have a BMI of over 35, the hospital's cutoff. A 5-foot-2 woman would be over the cutoff at 195 pounds. The hospital’s policy may cause outrage, but it’s an extreme example of an obesity bias that has been percolating in the nation’s workforces, starting with seemingly benign measures such as encouraging workers to walk at lunch. Companies are beefing up their efforts to make you healthier, and they’re taking out the big guns. You’re costing employers too much money for medical coverage, and increasingly firms are imposing penalties on workers who don’t get with the healthy program. According to a report released this week by consulting firm Mercer: “87% of large employers say they will add or strengthen programs or policies to encourage more health-conscious behavior.” While this hospital is talking about the image heavier workers send to customers, what drives so much of these decisions is the cost fatter employees represent. Healthier workers cost less when it comes to insurance, sick time, productivity, etc., according to many business experts. But are any these policies legal? In fact, weight discrimination is one of the last types of bias that’s, for the most part, legal. Michigan is the only state that has any laws on the books protecting the rotund among us, and a handful of cities also have some restrictions. The Michigan law, on the books in that state since 1977, has seldom been used but appears to be getting dusted off lately by overweight workers who believe they were given the shaft because of their weight. For anyone who lives outside Michigan, the only recourse is going to the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and seeking help under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Don’t expect a lot. Simply being overweight generally does not qualify as a disability. David Scher, an employment attorney with the Employment Law Group, said: “This issue was litigated extensively in the airline industry sometime ago. The bottom line is that it is not illegal to discriminate solely on the basis of weight provided the employer has a legitimate business reason.” However, he added, the Texas employer has two problems here. “The slippery slope for this hospital is that its reasoning may be questionable and (it) specifically states ‘appearance’ as its basis," he said. "For example, in Washington, D.C., it is generally illegal to discriminate based on ‘any’ surface characteristic for its own sake, commonly called the ‘ugly law’. So a bold policy like this would likely be illegal in D.C. because it flat-out uses “appearance” itself as the basis for the policy." He said the hospital could be on shaky legal ground unless it can establish a job-related reason for banning heavy workers, such as the possibility that they would be unable to physically fit between hospital beds. "Further, the hospital will either need to ‘eyeball’ an applicant or do an actual BMI test and obtain highly personal medical information about an applicant," he said. "A hospital of all places should know that merely obtaining this information will likely violate privacy laws.” The Texas example may seem over the top, but heavier workers have been hit in the wallet before. In a study by John Cawley, an associate professor at Cornell University, he found that obese white women had worse labor market outcomes than any other overweight workers. “The obesity penalty for wages was much greater for white than black females,” he told me a while ago. He pointed out that research has shown that obesity tended to lower the self-esteem of white women much more than black women. “That could end up affecting your work potentially,” he speculates. It’s hard to make a case for such bias at work, especially in today’s economy where finding a job can be so difficult. Who’s looking out for these portly citizens? Not Citizens Medical Center. Will they be turning away fat patients next? A version of this story also appears on the website CareerDiva. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 No mountain climbers, motorcycle riders, parachute jumpers,scuba divers, big game hunters either,if you don't wear seat belts,don't eat enough seafood or green vegetables , too many dental caries the list of exclusionary conditions/behaviors can be unlimited . Substative and accurate issues be damned! Please use their facilities to manage or treat injuries or illnesses these conditions! I wonder if the hospital excludes "fat" physicians from admitting patients? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookspa Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Private Hospital?? if so..whatever rules they want is ok with me... marketplace ethics. everything else is sweet, kind, non offensive and a cohoice. Thats what wi not mentioned , the plolitical correctness of not saying anything about fat people. Thats because there are so darn many of them now.. The main defense against the disease of fatness is ... push away from the table a little sooner and a little more often. Think about the occasional walk to stimulate your mind and metabolism. There are exceptions to this...a few. Like i said, obesity is a choice for most. A choice to get fat and a choice to remain so.. I know that sounds ugly. It is. It is also a fact. Sometimes facts are ugly but it does not make them less true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaston Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Potentially pregnant females.... Good point. Risky behavior leads to a medical condition. Maybe demand to see evidence of birth control regimen. After all... They don't have to pay for it anymore.... The insurance companies and the catholic church do now! It's not so much about risky behavior as it is about overall cost. We had a lecturer come talk to us about contract negotiations and job prospects. He made a lot of the women in my class angry when he was asked about pregnancy and women planning on starting a family. He said they were seen as a money drain, particularly if they were currently pregnant while applying for jobs. If you are working for a smaller company, a pregnancy + birth = increased insurance premiums for the business. Add to that the fact that the majority of women in America expect 2-3 months of maternity leave (with or without pay) which equals lost revenue for the practice. All of this for a new employee. In the end it ALL boils down to money. Do I agree with this? NO. Is it a reality that women face? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookspa Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 why cant you have your cake and eat it too. why cant you have it all. why do men supposedly make more than women? Men dont produce children , which would interupt their career path, schooling, practice, family life ect...as much as women do. is that fair? Is it fair that only women can experience the joy of childbirth and have a bond with their child that the father can only imagine in his wildest dreams. Fair has diddly squat to do with anything in this life. Fair is a concept, vague and indistinct, totally subjective and in contention at all times if there is more than a single subject requesting fairness. Fair is what comes to town in the fall and it has cotton candy and pony rides...thats a fair. One should hope for justice and pray for mercy. Thats as good as it gets. just a passing thought. Thats fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 why cant you have your cake and eat it too. why cant you have it all. why do men supposedly make more than women? Men dont produce children , which would interupt their career path, schooling, practice, family life ect...as much as women do. is that fair? Is it fair that only women can experience the joy of childbirth and have a bond with their child that the father can only imagine in his wildest dreams. Fair has diddly squat to do with anything in this life. Fair is a concept, vague and indistinct, totally subjective and in contention at all times if there is more than a single subject requesting fairness. Fair is what comes to town in the fall and it has cotton candy and pony rides...thats a fair. One should hope for justice and pray for mercy. Thats as good as it gets. just a passing thought. Thats fair. I agree, I'm more of a right or wrong guy, fairness is a concept often used or abused as a tool against reality in this world. It's "not fair" that coyotes eat helpless bunnies, but it is reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted April 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2012 wait wait here it comes...... yet another reason for a single payer national system..... then they would not have the excuse of increase premiums to hire/not hire people..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAdamsPAC Posted April 11, 2012 Author Share Posted April 11, 2012 wait wait here it comes...... yet another reason for a single payer national system..... then they would not have the excuse of increase premiums to hire/not hire people..... It something to consider.........if they were still around under a single payer system! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlst2 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This is obviously a move to save lost man hours and increase productivity. Tell me when when a corporation truly cared about employees health and well being (Hospitals included). If hospitals could outsource menial jobs to a sweat-shop in Korea, they would. The bottom line is the bottom line and CEO's will do what it takes to make it black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hospitals love fluffy bariatric patients. They love heart bypass and knee replacement. Hospitals my like the bottom line but we all would prefer to be doing fewer invasive, costly, high risk procedures for preventable/lifestyle diseases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Then why not discriminate based on race/etc... Race is not a choice It would have to be proven that MO is not a choice/lifestyle Private enterprise has the freedom to this at their own peril Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlst2 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 My point is the following: Hospitals lose money on many (but not all) DM and obesity related health issues. When you have DM or obesity and work for a hospital, chances are that you will seek care there when you are sick etc. Not only does the hospital suffer with losing man hours but it also has to deal with reimbursement loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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