Is my healthcare experience the problem?

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

People absolutely get invited and then denied on stats they knew beforehand. Why they do this, I do not know. Many people were told in some of my interviews that they were denied because "they needed more experience" and nothing was said about their interview ability.

 

It's a numbers game at many programs as well. Many places have a formula with points assigned to certain GPAs, GRE scores, years experience, with bonus points for leadership, upper level classes, volunteer, and the only subjective points are PS and interview. I have SEEN these sheets with the rankings and equation. Add all the objective points together and interview those with the highest numbers. Then, add in interview scores. So say you did great on the interview, but that person who had more years experience and same GPA also did a great interview. So you lose because your HCE was lacking. It's not that hard to believe.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

People absolutely get invited and then denied on stats they knew beforehand. Why they do this, I do not know. Many people were told in some of my interviews that they were denied because "they needed more experience" and nothing was said about their interview ability.

 

It's a numbers game at many programs as well. Many places have a formula with points assigned to certain GPAs, GRE scores, years experience, with bonus points for leadership, upper level classes, volunteer, and the only subjective points are PS and interview. I have SEEN these sheets with the rankings and equation. Add all the objective points together and interview those with the highest numbers. Then, add in interview scores. So say you did great on the interview, but that person who had more years experience and same GPA also did a great interview. So you lose because your HCE was lacking. It's not that hard to believe.

[Just Steve]

Then, add in interview scores. So say you did great on the interview, but that person who had more years experience and same GPA also did a great interview. So you lose because your HCE was lacking. It's not that hard to believe.

 

But she self reported that she interviewed poorly...we aren't making it up, she TOLD us. Here is a quote from one of her posts "The interview. I don't think it went as well as it could have. I wasn't asked anything at all pertaining to my medical knowledge or experience and was instead asked my opinion about an environmental issue close to home. In general, this threw me and I don't think I made as great of an impression as I wanted to. They stated they liked my stats and courted me from the time I first got turned down (with no interview that time) back in 2010. I did everything they asked and matched their candidate profile as well as I could tell from the information they provide. I've been analyzing everything since like crazy to determine my weak areas and because they did interview me, I at least met their academic and experience qualifications. So in this case, I am becoming more aware that I just was not a strong interviewee this time."

 

So while I do agree, and have said as much to the OP that using that EMT card may carry some benefit, I think there needs to be a concentrated effort on the interview. She didn't go out there and play a great game...she had a couple of errors. It's time to get some practice in before the big game rolls around again.

[Just Steve]

Then, add in interview scores. So say you did great on the interview, but that person who had more years experience and same GPA also did a great interview. So you lose because your HCE was lacking. It's not that hard to believe.

 

But she self reported that she interviewed poorly...we aren't making it up, she TOLD us. Here is a quote from one of her posts "The interview. I don't think it went as well as it could have. I wasn't asked anything at all pertaining to my medical knowledge or experience and was instead asked my opinion about an environmental issue close to home. In general, this threw me and I don't think I made as great of an impression as I wanted to. They stated they liked my stats and courted me from the time I first got turned down (with no interview that time) back in 2010. I did everything they asked and matched their candidate profile as well as I could tell from the information they provide. I've been analyzing everything since like crazy to determine my weak areas and because they did interview me, I at least met their academic and experience qualifications. So in this case, I am becoming more aware that I just was not a strong interviewee this time."

 

So while I do agree, and have said as much to the OP that using that EMT card may carry some benefit, I think there needs to be a concentrated effort on the interview. She didn't go out there and play a great game...she had a couple of errors. It's time to get some practice in before the big game rolls around again.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

But she self reported that she interviewed poorly...we aren't making it up, she TOLD us. Here is a quote from one of her posts "The interview. I don't think it went as well as it could have. I wasn't asked anything at all pertaining to my medical knowledge or experience and was instead asked my opinion about an environmental issue close to home. In general, this threw me and I don't think I made as great of an impression as I wanted to. They stated they liked my stats and courted me from the time I first got turned down (with no interview that time) back in 2010. I did everything they asked and matched their candidate profile as well as I could tell from the information they provide. I've been analyzing everything since like crazy to determine my weak areas and because they did interview me, I at least met their academic and experience qualifications. So in this case, I am becoming more aware that I just was not a strong interviewee this time."

 

So while I do agree, and have said as much to the OP that using that EMT card may carry some benefit, I think there needs to be a concentrated effort on the interview. She didn't go out there and play a great game...she had a couple of errors. It's time to get some practice in before the big game rolls around again.

 

You totally missed my point. Whether she interviewed well or not wasn't my subject. And for what it's worth, I agree with your previous post. However, just because you get an interview does not mean everyone there is equal, which was my point.

[LT_Oneal_PAC]

But she self reported that she interviewed poorly...we aren't making it up, she TOLD us. Here is a quote from one of her posts "The interview. I don't think it went as well as it could have. I wasn't asked anything at all pertaining to my medical knowledge or experience and was instead asked my opinion about an environmental issue close to home. In general, this threw me and I don't think I made as great of an impression as I wanted to. They stated they liked my stats and courted me from the time I first got turned down (with no interview that time) back in 2010. I did everything they asked and matched their candidate profile as well as I could tell from the information they provide. I've been analyzing everything since like crazy to determine my weak areas and because they did interview me, I at least met their academic and experience qualifications. So in this case, I am becoming more aware that I just was not a strong interviewee this time."

 

So while I do agree, and have said as much to the OP that using that EMT card may carry some benefit, I think there needs to be a concentrated effort on the interview. She didn't go out there and play a great game...she had a couple of errors. It's time to get some practice in before the big game rolls around again.

 

You totally missed my point. Whether she interviewed well or not wasn't my subject. And for what it's worth, I agree with your previous post. However, just because you get an interview does not mean everyone there is equal, which was my point.

[EMEDPA]

you do realize there is more to being a pa than just emergency medicine, right?

 

.

 

what! Sacrilege.....:)

( oh yeah, there's trauma surgery and critical care....)

[EMEDPA]

you do realize there is more to being a pa than just emergency medicine, right?

 

.

 

what! Sacrilege.....:)

( oh yeah, there's trauma surgery and critical care....)

[cinntsp]

I disagree with the previous posts regarding the interview as the major cause of the rejection. I think her absolute lack any HCE is what got the rejection. If pharmacy tech experience qualifies as patient care experience then so should being a cashier at walmart, and I don't mean that in any disrespectful way to the OP or walmart employees. My advice is use your EMT-B license to acquire HCE. I think all her other stats are excellent.

 

Had you looked at the school's website, you'd see that they don't require patient care experience. This thread is becoming a little misleading. She has the stats to get in somewhere so it's obvious the interview was what hurt her. It may not even be that the interview went bad; it could be that she just didn't shine enough to make the cut. The real problem here was that she applied to a single school and she has said that she will apply to 10+ in this upcoming cycle. Unless she bungles every interview, she'll likely get in this time around even without patient care HCE.

[cinntsp]

I disagree with the previous posts regarding the interview as the major cause of the rejection. I think her absolute lack any HCE is what got the rejection. If pharmacy tech experience qualifies as patient care experience then so should being a cashier at walmart, and I don't mean that in any disrespectful way to the OP or walmart employees. My advice is use your EMT-B license to acquire HCE. I think all her other stats are excellent.

 

Had you looked at the school's website, you'd see that they don't require patient care experience. This thread is becoming a little misleading. She has the stats to get in somewhere so it's obvious the interview was what hurt her. It may not even be that the interview went bad; it could be that she just didn't shine enough to make the cut. The real problem here was that she applied to a single school and she has said that she will apply to 10+ in this upcoming cycle. Unless she bungles every interview, she'll likely get in this time around even without patient care HCE.

[bigdude]

You do realize there is more to being a PA than just emergency medicine, right?

 

I've met some really nice cashiers who were eloquent when they spoke, attentive to detail, considerate in their approach, and dutiful to their assignment. I've met some EMTs who were calloused, rude, inconsiderate, ignorant of how much they didn't know, and a hazard to any patient they touched. If I was going to run a school to educate health care providers, I'd much rather have a room full of eager, bright, willing to learn students than a panel of arrogance who belittle the experience of others in such broad strokes. Yes, I do encourage people to get hands on health care but come on... If you have to qualify your statement with the classic, yet un-classy "no disrespect" then perhaps it may be time to wait a moment before you post. After all...the OP got invited to an interview..and only about 40% of PA schools even require any health care experience.

 

As a pre hospital provider since 1988 and a HUGE advocate of quality health care experience I can see your enthusiasm for breaking out of the back supply room. However, I bet the OP can smoke any EMT basic when it comes to side effects of meds, contraindications, indications, cross reactions, identification...seeing how PAs prescribe and need to know that stuff, it's a valuable skill to have.

 

You do realize that PA programs were developed to utilize the skills of a combat medic, right?

 

I won't try to explain to you the skills needed for PA school that are learned from working in EM since you have over 20 yrs of HCE. After reading your post I kind of agree with you, maybe opening a PA school with an emphasis on cashier skills as a pre-req for the students is a good idea. Yea, that would definitely be considered "quality health care".

[bigdude]

You do realize there is more to being a PA than just emergency medicine, right?

 

I've met some really nice cashiers who were eloquent when they spoke, attentive to detail, considerate in their approach, and dutiful to their assignment. I've met some EMTs who were calloused, rude, inconsiderate, ignorant of how much they didn't know, and a hazard to any patient they touched. If I was going to run a school to educate health care providers, I'd much rather have a room full of eager, bright, willing to learn students than a panel of arrogance who belittle the experience of others in such broad strokes. Yes, I do encourage people to get hands on health care but come on... If you have to qualify your statement with the classic, yet un-classy "no disrespect" then perhaps it may be time to wait a moment before you post. After all...the OP got invited to an interview..and only about 40% of PA schools even require any health care experience.

 

As a pre hospital provider since 1988 and a HUGE advocate of quality health care experience I can see your enthusiasm for breaking out of the back supply room. However, I bet the OP can smoke any EMT basic when it comes to side effects of meds, contraindications, indications, cross reactions, identification...seeing how PAs prescribe and need to know that stuff, it's a valuable skill to have.

 

You do realize that PA programs were developed to utilize the skills of a combat medic, right?

 

I won't try to explain to you the skills needed for PA school that are learned from working in EM since you have over 20 yrs of HCE. After reading your post I kind of agree with you, maybe opening a PA school with an emphasis on cashier skills as a pre-req for the students is a good idea. Yea, that would definitely be considered "quality health care".

[EMEDPA]

maybe opening a pa school with an emphasis on cashier skills as a pre-req for the students is a good idea. Yea, that would definitely be considered "quality health care".

we already have plenty of those programs today.....:)

[EMEDPA]

maybe opening a pa school with an emphasis on cashier skills as a pre-req for the students is a good idea. Yea, that would definitely be considered "quality health care".

we already have plenty of those programs today.....:)

[Just Steve]

You do realize that PA programs were developed to utilize the skills of a combat medic, right?

 

I won't try to explain to you the skills needed for PA school that are learned from working in EM since you have over 20 yrs of HCE. After reading your post I kind of agree with you, maybe opening a PA school with an emphasis on cashier skills as a pre-req for the students is a good idea. Yea, that would definitely be considered "quality health care".

 

No, PA school was first offered to nurses, who refused the program. The program was developed to lend assistance to over worked physicians who needed help in a clinical setting, not on some battlefield or in the back of some ambulance. After the nurses turned him down Dr. Stead then asked the military, Navy Corpsman in particular as they were the next most medically trained people available at the time. While the majority of Corpsmen were coming fresh out of Vietnam, I'll let the combat medic generalization slide but Navy Corpsman are far beyond your average Army medic.

 

Your post was an obvious derogatory dig at the OP's history as a pharm tech. I called you on it. I haven't begin to make fun of EMTs which a casual read of EMS1 or any other EMT forum can illustrate how much their ignorance of what they don't know shines through with the majority of their posts. If you carry this massive "EMTs are the only way to go" chip into your eventual interview, and perhaps even classroom, you will evolve 1 of 2 ways...either 1. You'll be hated by your classmates, regretted by the faculty, and not well liked on rotations or 2. You'll develop and appreciation for the depth of medicine and finally awaken to the notion that there are more than one way to skin a cat. I hope for you it's the latter.

 

Have you bothered to review that particular school's first time PANCE pass rate? Have you bothered to evaluate the 60% of schools that don't require HCE and see what their first time PANCE rate is? UW, which is one of the foremost schools that DO require HCE has a very disturbing first time PANCE rate from this last cycle. (it is not posted yet, but as a student there, I have a heads up) It is worse than their previously posted slump a few years ago. So while you stomp around on the net flouting how great EMTs are you may want to do a little investigating of what things really are.

 

I've been a paramedic since 1999, was an EMT long before that. I was a Navy Corpsman for 10 years in the middle of all that. It's not like I don't know first hand what sort of background you are coming from.

[Just Steve]

You do realize that PA programs were developed to utilize the skills of a combat medic, right?

 

I won't try to explain to you the skills needed for PA school that are learned from working in EM since you have over 20 yrs of HCE. After reading your post I kind of agree with you, maybe opening a PA school with an emphasis on cashier skills as a pre-req for the students is a good idea. Yea, that would definitely be considered "quality health care".

 

No, PA school was first offered to nurses, who refused the program. The program was developed to lend assistance to over worked physicians who needed help in a clinical setting, not on some battlefield or in the back of some ambulance. After the nurses turned him down Dr. Stead then asked the military, Navy Corpsman in particular as they were the next most medically trained people available at the time. While the majority of Corpsmen were coming fresh out of Vietnam, I'll let the combat medic generalization slide but Navy Corpsman are far beyond your average Army medic.

 

Your post was an obvious derogatory dig at the OP's history as a pharm tech. I called you on it. I haven't begin to make fun of EMTs which a casual read of EMS1 or any other EMT forum can illustrate how much their ignorance of what they don't know shines through with the majority of their posts. If you carry this massive "EMTs are the only way to go" chip into your eventual interview, and perhaps even classroom, you will evolve 1 of 2 ways...either 1. You'll be hated by your classmates, regretted by the faculty, and not well liked on rotations or 2. You'll develop and appreciation for the depth of medicine and finally awaken to the notion that there are more than one way to skin a cat. I hope for you it's the latter.

 

Have you bothered to review that particular school's first time PANCE pass rate? Have you bothered to evaluate the 60% of schools that don't require HCE and see what their first time PANCE rate is? UW, which is one of the foremost schools that DO require HCE has a very disturbing first time PANCE rate from this last cycle. (it is not posted yet, but as a student there, I have a heads up) It is worse than their previously posted slump a few years ago. So while you stomp around on the net flouting how great EMTs are you may want to do a little investigating of what things really are.

 

I've been a paramedic since 1999, was an EMT long before that. I was a Navy Corpsman for 10 years in the middle of all that. It's not like I don't know first hand what sort of background you are coming from.

[EMEDPA]

Steve- I firmly believe pance rates are more about individual students than the programs they graduate from. great programs can have years with poor results and crappy programs can have years with 100% pass rates. it's not about what is taught in the classrom, it's about what the individual student studies at home and how much effort they put into their rotations. for this reason I have always said that pance rates are a poor indicator of program quality. some programs which produce great grads who go on to work in underserved areas in large #s, etc have lower than expected 1st time pance pass rates. Lesh, a program director here on the forum, argues convincingly that eventual pance pass rate is a better indicator of the quality of a program as the casual student who blows off studying for pance will kick it into gear and pass the second time if they didn't the first time around. the poor student will never pass.. see his posts on this if interested.

[EMEDPA]

Steve- I firmly believe pance rates are more about individual students than the programs they graduate from. great programs can have years with poor results and crappy programs can have years with 100% pass rates. it's not about what is taught in the classrom, it's about what the individual student studies at home and how much effort they put into their rotations. for this reason I have always said that pance rates are a poor indicator of program quality. some programs which produce great grads who go on to work in underserved areas in large #s, etc have lower than expected 1st time pance pass rates. Lesh, a program director here on the forum, argues convincingly that eventual pance pass rate is a better indicator of the quality of a program as the casual student who blows off studying for pance will kick it into gear and pass the second time if they didn't the first time around. the poor student will never pass.. see his posts on this if interested.

[EMEDPA]

the key is just to not be one of the few that dont pass. not that hard to do when rates are 85% or above. its just up to the student.

the same could be said of pance. few programs have pass rates less than 85%

[EMEDPA]

the key is just to not be one of the few that dont pass. not that hard to do when rates are 85% or above. its just up to the student.

the same could be said of pance. few programs have pass rates less than 85%

[andersenpa]

what! Sacrilege.....:)

( oh yeah, there's trauma surgery and critical care....)

 

Good save (sort of)

[andersenpa]

what! Sacrilege.....:)

( oh yeah, there's trauma surgery and critical care....)

 

Good save (sort of)

[Just Steve]

EM, you have read enough of my posts to know I whole heartedly support the notion of previous health care experience prior to PA school. I think it's not only a key element in producing a quality care provider on the other end of journey but I find it for me, it makes PA school an overall enjoyable, stress-less time. I was just taken aback by someone bashing an interested perspective student with such an abrupt comment. The same rude comment was made about CNAs in a different post. He just got under my skin as some pompous EMT basic who thinks the have the world by the horns. I know, I know. I'll go meditate and let it go, let life serve the dish he gets. I'm done with this topic.

[Just Steve]

EM, you have read enough of my posts to know I whole heartedly support the notion of previous health care experience prior to PA school. I think it's not only a key element in producing a quality care provider on the other end of journey but I find it for me, it makes PA school an overall enjoyable, stress-less time. I was just taken aback by someone bashing an interested perspective student with such an abrupt comment. The same rude comment was made about CNAs in a different post. He just got under my skin as some pompous EMT basic who thinks the have the world by the horns. I know, I know. I'll go meditate and let it go, let life serve the dish he gets. I'm done with this topic.

[cinntsp]

if you make it to the interview, its based on stats. if you get rejected after the interview based on your stats, its because you didnt live up to them. either way, at that point, its not your stats you need to work on, its your ability to demonstrate that your stats and your demeanor communicate to the evaluator that you are ready for prime time (at least comparative to the others being interviewed). the notion that you make it that far only to have your stats kill you on thier own is absurd. rejection based on stats at that stage is coupled with the interview.

 

That's not true in all cases. I interviewed at one school in my first application cycle and their feedback to me was that my interview was excellent, that they were impressed with my interaction during the group interview questions, and I was well-liked by everyone but my academics still left some doubt so they went with the safer bet. They said that they brought me in to interview because my GPA was bordering their minimum but my GRE score made them think I'd be able to do well. My second cycle was much more successful, having finished my pre-reqs and demonstrating a major upward trend, etc.