Possible Professionalism Dinge/Probation

[samhamiam]

Hi everyone! 

I hate making this post as I don't like this situation but I wanted to ask advice from all of your intelligent people!

SO I have to meet with our dean of students for a SECOND time in the last two months. 

So last month, in July, I unknowingly tailgated a security guard (honestly, I just didn't realize I was driving so close). When he got out of his car and yelled at me, I apologized 3 times saying, "it was an honest mistake, and it won't happen again". He ended our conversation with, "Sorry I can't drive fast enough for you" and I said "no that is not my intent, I apologize it won't happen again". That security guard wrote an email to the dean saying and I'm quoting it, "she somewhat apologized, her tailgating me is a hazard to driving, she was on her phone". I was never once on my phone, my car has bluetooth and a cell phone holder so I don't ever need to. I saw the dean, he said it's a warning and to be more careful.

 

This past Friday, I got an email from the dean that I have to meet him again for a second "reckless driving" offense. I emailed to inquire what was the exact nature of my offense and he wrote back, "i will happily show documentations of everything I was given when you arrive". I went down to administration and talked with the head of security and he told me it was due to me turning the wrong way to park my car in the lot that morning and that the security guard (same one) said I seemed distracted most likely due to phone use and I was going 40 mph in a 25 mph lot. 

First thing, I never speed. Also our school has no radar, that security guard's method of judgement is sight of my car moving.  The security guard is really mean (like seriously, people have cried), and he watches me like a hawk. Even when I walk to school, he literally stares when I walk past, it's creepy. So I'm going to say to the dean I never speed, people ride with me all the time and can vouch that I drive like a grandma. Maybe I was going 30 mph, I wasn't going like 50 mph, I was well within the grounds of driving a safe speed given a parking lot I drive in daily. There were NO cars and I do admit to wrong turning to get into a close parking spot rather than making a loop around the parking lot to find a spot. I wasn't ON MY PHONE AT 8:45am in the morning AND my phone has bluetooth! I am going to show him pictures of my car with proof that I talk to people on bluetooth, that I have a cell phone holder on the dashboard. Lastly, that Friday I went and bought a brand new bike ($450 receipt, yikes!) and that from now on, I will be riding my bike to school as I am 5 months out to rotations and this is not worth it to me. 

My question is: Do you think I get put on professionalism probation? I'm seriously freaking out. 

Second question: Advice on what to say when I meet my dean a second time.

[UGoLong]

Talk to your cell phone carrier and get the detailed report of your calls (day, time, number called, and duration). That will prove whether you were on the phone or not at the time of the complaint and hopefully nip some of this in the bud.

 

I doubt that this is going to ruin your life.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[samhamiam]

3 hours ago, UGoLong said:

Talk to your cell phone carrier and get the detailed report of your calls (day, time, number called, and duration). That will prove whether you were on the phone or not at the time of the complaint and hopefully nip some of this in the bud.

 

I doubt that this is going to ruin your life.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Hi! 

Thanks for that useful tip! I printed out my phone calls and texts from AT&T,  I didn't use calls/texts until 2pm that day, so not at all in the morning! I will show that. Thank you!

[UGoLong]

Good! Get the report for the earlier event too, unless you were on the phone that time.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[samhamiam]

3 hours ago, UGoLong said:

Good! Get the report for the earlier event too, unless you were on the phone that time.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

Yup! got that too. I wasn't on my phone. He wrote, "I in fact did confirm that she was on her phone when she left her car". I had my phone in my hand, maybe? Either way my cellphone carrier records over his words is what it'll come down to. I will admit that I was lazy and instead of making a circle around the parking lot, I just took a quick wrongful turn into a parking spot.

Anything else I should say? Thank you again!

[UGoLong]

I wouldn't directly attack the security guard, but show the evidence that his two claims about your cell phone use were clearly in error. They should start to question what other claims he might also have made in error.

Going around a parking lot the wrong way won't keep you out of PA school.

Let us know how the hearing goes!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[samhamiam]

35 minutes ago, UGoLong said:

I wouldn't directly attack the security guard, but show the evidence that his two claims about your cell phone use were clearly in error. They should start to question what other claims he might also have made in error.

Going around a parking lot the wrong way won't keep you out of PA school.

Let us know how the hearing goes!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yeah I know it won't keep me out, I'm just afraid I will get a professionalism dinge throughout the remainder of my program on my record.

Any advice on how to convince the dean to not do that? 

Also I bought a bike and all the accessories (lock, helmet) so for the next 5 months I'll just be riding my bike to campus (2 miles from my house). I'll show him that too. 

I told my program director and my advisor. I just want to convince the dean to not have it be on my record at all. 

 

Thanks!

[UGoLong]

I think providing evidence that, contrary to the security guard's statements, you were not unsafe by using your phone. It is important to you that you are viewed a responsible student who is applying to competitive programs that expect proessional behavior. Just to avoid further difficulties, you are going to be biking to school.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rev ronin]

4 hours ago, UGoLong said:

I wouldn't directly attack the security guard, [...]

... yet.

If they do anything other than dismiss the complaint as unfounded, then it's time to...

1) Get a lawyer

2) Formally request records of other complaints made by this security guard.

3) Formally request records of other student complaints against this security guard.

4) Anything else your lawyer thinks might be a good idea.

However, this will 1) cost you at least SOME money ($250ish for a demand letter is probably still in the ballpark, but it may be more), and 2) while victory is almost assured based on what you tell us here, it could cost you A LOT of time and money to win.  Absolutely try to resolve this with kind words and facts; escalation is to be avoided as long and as thoroughly as it can be.

I had a security guard issue in PA school, but it was pretty easily resolved: Pacific has a nice "intermodal transit facility" across the street, funded mostly with federal dollars.  It has public parking, and paid/reserved parking, which we could have rented for some modestly absurd amount.  Students are part of the public, last time I checked, but the other partners were not happy that essentially all of the parking was taken up by students.  They started threatening to ticket students.  After I got talked to by a (very nice, wasn't HIS fault...) security guard, I got his boss' email, and pointed out that if they wrote me a ticket for a non-infraction (public parking in a public parking garage) that was itself a crime.  Never heard a word back, never got hassled again.

They fixed the problem for the next years' class by making them all buy parking.

[samhamiam]

2 hours ago, rev ronin said:

... yet.

If they do anything other than dismiss the complaint as unfounded, then it's time to...

1) Get a lawyer

2) Formally request records of other complaints made by this security guard.

3) Formally request records of other student complaints against this security guard.

4) Anything else your lawyer thinks might be a good idea.

However, this will 1) cost you at least SOME money ($250ish for a demand letter is probably still in the ballpark, but it may be more), and 2) while victory is almost assured based on what you tell us here, it could cost you A LOT of time and money to win.  Absolutely try to resolve this with kind words and facts; escalation is to be avoided as long and as thoroughly as it can be.

I had a security guard issue in PA school, but it was pretty easily resolved: Pacific has a nice "intermodal transit facility" across the street, funded mostly with federal dollars.  It has public parking, and paid/reserved parking, which we could have rented for some modestly absurd amount.  Students are part of the public, last time I checked, but the other partners were not happy that essentially all of the parking was taken up by students.  They started threatening to ticket students.  After I got talked to by a (very nice, wasn't HIS fault...) security guard, I got his boss' email, and pointed out that if they wrote me a ticket for a non-infraction (public parking in a public parking garage) that was itself a crime.  Never heard a word back, never got hassled again.

They fixed the problem for the next years' class by making them all buy parking.

Hey Rev,

 

Thank you! What do you think I should say tomorrow? I was going to show my cell phone records to say I wasn't on my phone. I was going to own up to the fact that, yes, I was lazy and make a wrong turn to get into a close parking spot inside of making a circle around the lot. He said I was speeding, so I don't know how to fight that. He said I was reckless, there were no cars around, that's why I made the turn so I was being lazy but I wasn't reckless. 

I was truly unaware of how close I was to him tailgating the first offense. He is mean, he said "sorry I can't drive fast enough for you" after I apologized a few times for tailgating him. He pointed me out to another security guard saying, "that's that girl that tailgated me", and he has been mean to his coworkers in front of people too. 

Basically, I'll show my phone logs, I'll show pictures of the interior of my car and how I have a wall mount, I have bluetooth in my car so i never hold my phone which is legal, and I'm showing receipts of my new $450 bike to avoid driving to school. 

Thanks for the help!

[rev ronin]

The bike is irrelevant, as is the tailgating incident.  Don't forget that most college administrators have less attention span than attendings: you have to hit this hard, directly, and concretely:

1) Logs show my phone wasn't in use at the time of the alleged infraction (show logs)

2) Even if I had been, here is my (show photo) legal aftermarket hands-free setup.

3) Now that we've established that the most serious allegation is false (not on phone/distracted), what else do we need to discuss?

Then shut up.

Allow the administrator time to either agree with you, or not. If they don't agree to dismiss the infraction, then you may want to request a formal hearing, or have representation, or whatever--It would depend on how your process works.  Point is, attack the worst possible allegation with direct, relevant evidence and then stop.

If you say one word about him being "mean" in a hearing, then you deserve to lose.  Harsh, but this isn't kindergarten so don't act like it.  If you feel harassed or threatened by his unjustified and demonstrably false accusations, say THAT... but if and only if the evidence of his misrepresentation of the facts doesn't solve your problem.

If the administrator is looking for a way to save face, you THEN may want to bring up the bicycle, but I definitely wouldn't lead with it: it makes it seem like you're abandoning your car out of guilt. Instead, you should say that for your own health reasons, you have decided to switch to a bicycle, and the inappropriate behavior of the campus security guards has accelerated your desire to not deal with such pettiness.

[Maynard]

If this were me, then once this all blew over and got resolved I would file a formal complaint with the security guard's supervisor.

[samhamiam]

On 8/28/2017 at 1:12 PM, rev ronin said:

The bike is irrelevant, as is the tailgating incident.  Don't forget that most college administrators have less attention span than attendings: you have to hit this hard, directly, and concretely:

1) Logs show my phone wasn't in use at the time of the alleged infraction (show logs)

2) Even if I had been, here is my (show photo) legal aftermarket hands-free setup.

3) Now that we've established that the most serious allegation is false (not on phone/distracted), what else do we need to discuss?

Then shut up.

Allow the administrator time to either agree with you, or not. If they don't agree to dismiss the infraction, then you may want to request a formal hearing, or have representation, or whatever--It would depend on how your process works.  Point is, attack the worst possible allegation with direct, relevant evidence and then stop.

If you say one word about him being "mean" in a hearing, then you deserve to lose.  Harsh, but this isn't kindergarten so don't act like it.  If you feel harassed or threatened by his unjustified and demonstrably false accusations, say THAT... but if and only if the evidence of his misrepresentation of the facts doesn't solve your problem.

If the administrator is looking for a way to save face, you THEN may want to bring up the bicycle, but I definitely wouldn't lead with it: it makes it seem like you're abandoning your car out of guilt. Instead, you should say that for your own health reasons, you have decided to switch to a bicycle, and the inappropriate behavior of the campus security guards has accelerated your desire to not deal with such pettiness.

On 8/28/2017 at 1:12 PM, rev ronin said:

The bike is irrelevant, as is the tailgating incident.  Don't forget that most college administrators have less attention span than attendings: you have to hit this hard, directly, and concretely:

1) Logs show my phone wasn't in use at the time of the alleged infraction (show logs)

2) Even if I had been, here is my (show photo) legal aftermarket hands-free setup.

3) Now that we've established that the most serious allegation is false (not on phone/distracted), what else do we need to discuss?

Then shut up.

Allow the administrator time to either agree with you, or not. If they don't agree to dismiss the infraction, then you may want to request a formal hearing, or have representation, or whatever--It would depend on how your process works.  Point is, attack the worst possible allegation with direct, relevant evidence and then stop.

If you say one word about him being "mean" in a hearing, then you deserve to lose.  Harsh, but this isn't kindergarten so don't act like it.  If you feel harassed or threatened by his unjustified and demonstrably false accusations, say THAT... but if and only if the evidence of his misrepresentation of the facts doesn't solve your problem.

If the administrator is looking for a way to save face, you THEN may want to bring up the bicycle, but I definitely wouldn't lead with it: it makes it seem like you're abandoning your car out of guilt. Instead, you should say that for your own health reasons, you have decided to switch to a bicycle, and the inappropriate behavior of the campus security guards has accelerated your desire to not deal with such pettiness.

Thanks Rev!

 

So I didn't have a formal hearing by any means, it was a meeting with the dean. Thanks UGoLong for the cell phone record log, that helped me TREMENDOUSLY! The dean was very impressed that I brought that and he wrote in the email to my program director, that he is pleased that I gave this meeting great attention and that in fact, I was not on my phone in either instance. He asked me if I thought my speed was too fast, I told him that I don't always abide by the 20 mph speed limit but I am no way at a speed that I find fast and I think it matches the speed of other cars around me. I told him dealing with this brings me great stress as I will be out to rotations soon and do not need this on my professionalism, I have purchased a bike to avoid giving this security guard any opportunity to write me up. I told him I have never gotten a single ticket in my life so this is absurd.

at the end of the meeting, I told him that I know this security guard gives special attention to me more than other students and I don't like it. This security guard has also made a female security guard cry in the foyer of our main building (several students present saw that) and he told her to go to the bathroom to clean up as her crying is a mess. A classmate of mine went to ask him why she got a ticket and he just yelled at her, I told the dean I don't like that security guard's mannerisms toward students and his own coworkers, it's uncalled for. 

He noted that and told me of course I'm free to drive on campus, but he is glad I have a bike too. I've been walking to campus as well (takes me a 25 min walk). 

 

Thank you SO much for the help everyone. I really mean it. I was so nervous I would get a record on professionalism! I am going to be walking/bike riding more, I think that it will be best till rotations, I just don't want to risk anything. 

[UGoLong]

Well done! And now you have some new skills when (not if) you encounter stuff like this again.

Good luck!