Low GPA, told I'm NOT a lost cause, but having anxiety... help?!

[Dante311]

I have a 2.9 ugrad (Kinesiology) ... a 3.3 grad (Exercise Physiology) (MS)... some a's, b's and c's in a post-bacc (there's a good reason behind this).  Now I think my Cum is 2.8 or 2.9 still... not sure.

My BS and MS suffered due to familial problems with my dad's serious cardiac complications including a mitral valve prolapse (followed with an emergency open heart mitral repair)... congestive heart failure and a myriad of serious health complications... followed with pericarditis in 2012 (followed by an emergency pericardectomy in 2012) that impacted both my UGRAD and GRAD GPA.  

Because my dad was in and out of the hospital through my ugrad and grad career (with my kind of disappearing in the final semester of my grad career - impacting my grad GPA), I didn't have financial guidance and ended up taking out loans per advice of financial officers in my alma mater.  I wish I knew then what I know now.  :/

Because of this, I work insane hours @ >70 / week, impacting my post-bacc grades... and I cannot stop working or I'll be drowning financially.  I wish I could.  That's the #1 piece of advice.. stop working so much.  Simple answer, unless I get a better paying job (and I get paid decently)... I can't.

my GRE right now?  151 in verbal... 148 math (I need to get this up)... 5.5 in writing.  I am planning on retaking the GRE, I only studied a few days - not happy with these scores... but it's enough to scrape by.

The rest of my application?  ...

Since 2012.. I was a Starbucks Barista @ 35 hours /week.

Since 2013 - 2014, I worked in Research Data Management in a Pediatric Hospital's Emergency Department. @ 20 hours / week

Since September 2013 - Present, I am the lead Exercise Physiologist running a pulmonary rehabilitation program with direct patient care, overseeing patient care, patient outcomes, exercise programs, etc... in addition I do pulmonary function testing, I am the lead on both adult and pediatric exercise challenges, I oversee and educate the complex cardiopulmonary exercise stress tests (level 1, 2, and 3 - 3 being with a right-heart cath in a potential PHT patients)... I am also on the inpatient and outpatient tobacco treatment team - all direct patient care and bedside... @ 40 hours/ week

Since March 2015 - Present I have been a research coordinator at the medical school for the hospital i work in overseeing clinical research with direct patient care/contact in a COPD population; while maintaining data integrity, and contributed to the research protocol etc... @ 15 hours / week

From November 2013 - Present Day.. I have also served as a research associate, lab manager, data research coordinator, ... I could go into more detail, but I'm still a research collaborator @ 20 hours / week

I also have been a medical volunteer for the Boston Athletic Association since 2012 as a member of their sweep team at the boston marathon and a number of small races

I also run races for the hospital team and raise money for them...  since last year.

I also volunteer non-medical > 100 hours for the Salvation Army (cooking for the homeless)

I have accumulated > 4500 direct health care experience hours

I have accumulated > 5000 indirect patient / research hours

I have 9 peer reviewed publications / contributions including papers, abstracts/posters .. 2 are first author

My 4 recommendations are STRONG.  All directors of their respective programs, or the chief surgical PA.. and 1 was a professor of mine (director of pathology @ hospital) <~ I have been told this.

I have had frequent communication with some admissions coordinators - some tell me b/c of my GPA there are programs who will over look me.  That's inevitable.  There are some who are interested in my backstory and how hard I've worked to overcome my GPA flaw.  It's a big flaw.  

 

...Anyone have any advice for me?  I know I have some serious flaws, and I don't think taking MORE classes and working my ass off can help me much now... Retaking the GRE, yes. 

Where have I applied?

So far I've applied to MGH and Northeastern, both state they do look at entire applications, and do consider non-traditional candidates with strong backstories if the GPA or GRE are lacking.

Where am I applying?

Yale - told me to apply with an appeal for consideration for my backstory

Temple - told me to apply with an appeal for consideration for my backstory.  

EVMS - They take the highest > 3.0 GPA (my Masters)

Touro - with an appeal

Quinnipiac - with an appeal

Methodist - someone on admissions told me to apply, she was very impressed after speaking with me by accident!

Rosalind Franklin - with an appeal

Not sure where else I'll apply yet...

PS - I was a medical first responder at the Boston Marathon, that is in my personal essay

Help :( I think I'm a lost cause.  This is my SECOND year applying.

[ajames]

I wouldn't give up. I don't know exactly which schools to apply to but it seems like you have an idea of which ones with an appeal. You have a lot of interesting and diverse experience in both research and a unique background in PCE. This is only your second year, some people don't get in until their third, so do not be discouraged. Yes, more classes would help you, but they don't have to be crazy classes. Simple science classes contribute to your cGPA and you could take classes at your community college. Perhaps even consider getting an advanced certificate in a medical pathway that allows you to grow into a new position. Histology, for example, pays well, or even ultrasound in the meantime. All those credits count towards your GPA. If student loan debt is a problem, continue to work, pay off your loans before you go to PA school so you can be more secure financially. Remember, this career is for the rest of your life, so keep trying but don't be so rushed that you have to have it right away. And if this is what you want, then do not give up. I hope someone can also give you further advice, someone who has been in your shoes. 

[Dante311]

Thank you ajames, it's really hard.  Taking 2-4 classes and getting A's right now isn't my solution.  Yeah, the adcomms might see it - but a, it's going to be hard (anything worth getting is never easy.. I know) and b, it's raise my GPA by what?  .01?

 

I'm trying to make up for it in other areas.  I really want to shift my time carrying multiple roles in healthcare - which are not easy to manage or balance w/out dropping the ball to studying for 6-7 classes at a time full time.

[bocc54]

It is very tough if your cGPA and sGPA do not meet the minimum 3.0 cutoffs. With that said, if schools are telling you they will allow you to apply with an appeal, go for it! You have so much experience and are a really well rounded candidate else wise. If you do not get in this round do everything you can to get those GPAs over that "magic" 3.0 mark. If I were on an admission committee I would definitely be interested in your application given your backstory and experience, and I don't say that to most people with low GPAs. 

[ilygurlie]

I have definitely heard your story before but I'm going to give you the same advice..

Take more classes and do well in them. Programs do consider things happen in undergrad but they want to see growth and you overcoming these barriers. There are many programs who place emphasis on last 45-60 credits for this reason... so even if your cGPA is low, if your last 45 credits is a 3.7+, these programs can consider you a competitive applicant. However, you can't have a 3.3 in your masters and expect programs to overlook your low gpa completely. EVMS is one of the most well known programs that do a replacement gpa of your last 40 credits but their average class has a ~3.7 due to this (additionally pre req gpa is a ~3.9). I understand that you have to work to pay off loans and bills.. but if you can't make high marks consistently .. programs see you as a risk. They have 15 other people competing for your seat who have proven they have a strong academic record. What if you have another emergency during PA school? They don't know how you'll be able to handle that + the stress of PA school. 

I apologize if this is harsh, but I would advise you put all your focus and efforts into your grades. I've been in a similar situation to yours. I made many many failing grades in undergrad. I had to redeem myself 10x harder than the average applicant with a 3.5 gpa. I worked 30... 40.. 50 work weeks sometimes while taking 4-6 science classes. 

Sometimes life is not fair and if you can't handle surviving financially + attending school.. maybe put PA school on the back burner for a while until you can save up money and not have to work while in classes. 

You obviously have the drive. This path is a journey so don't feel discouraged if you don't get in this round or the next or the next. Focus on things one step at a time and you will eventually get there!

 

** also, Yale is pretty set on having high stats. Maybe you can be an exception but you're most likely throwing money applying there. Additionally, EVMS wants very high stats on past 40 credits and pre req gpa as previously said.**

[newton9686]

Dante311, I am a Methodist student getting ready to graduate in December. After being in the program a couple years I can say you are the type of applicant we like to recruit. I would say 10-20% of our class are applicants who have been turned down by multiple programs elsewhere. However, admissions has a really good feel for who has that "it" factor and will be a tremendous provider despite having application flaws. I will not be surprised if you are offered an interview. Hope to see you around. 

[Dante311]

45 minutes ago, newton9686 said:

Dante311, I am a Methodist student getting ready to graduate in December. After being in the program a couple years I can say you are the type of applicant we like to recruit. I would say 10-20% of our class are applicants who have been turned down by multiple programs elsewhere. However, admissions has a really good feel for who has that "it" factor and will be a tremendous provider despite having application flaws. I will not be surprised if you are offered an interview. Hope to see you around. 

Hi!

 

Thank you, may I private message you?

 

=)

[newton9686]

Of course. I don't have much as far as insider information, but I would be happy to help out if I can. 

[UGoLong]

There are a number of people who had extenuating circumstances and I'd like to think that the human being reading apps would consider that. Still...

...a major purpose of past grades is to judge whether or not someone will be a success in a particular PA program. Having a good reason not to have done well in the past and still not to be doing well in the present doesn't help much to convince someone. You can't undo the past and will your Dad not to have had his health challenges. But I think you have to establish a "new" track record now that helps demonstrate that the past is not prologue.

Unfortunately, some students who had problems -- for whatever reason -- in the past go on to have problems in the future. If you really need to work lots of hours, then I'd slow down and take classes one at a time. This might delay getting into a PA program, but I'd rather see a bunch of As stretched out over several quarters than a couple of quarters of Bs and Cs. As someone who went back to PA school very late in life, I'd like to add that there is a lot to be said for being patient and working your plan.

Good luck.

[Dante311]

22 minutes ago, UGoLong said:

There are a number of people who had extenuating circumstances and I'd like to think that the human being reading apps would consider that. Still...

...a major purpose of past grades is to judge whether or not someone will be a success in a particular PA program. Having a good reason not to have done well in the past and still not to be doing well in the present doesn't help much to convince someone. You can't undo the past and will your Dad not to have had his health challenges. But I think you have to establish a "new" track record now that helps demonstrate that the past is not prologue.

Unfortunately, some students who had problems -- for whatever reason -- in the past go on to have problems in the future. If you really need to work lots of hours, then I'd slow down and take classes one at a time. This might delay getting into a PA program, but I'd rather see a bunch of As stretched out over several quarters than a couple of quarters of Bs and Cs. As someone who went back to PA school very late in life, I'd like to add that there is a lot to be said for being patient and working your plan.

Good luck.

I really appreciate all the feedback, and I absolutely see your point (and ILYGURLIE's)... 

Working 40 hours in Pulmonary Rehab, as a lead ex physiologist (e.g. today I was called in oversee a pediatric complex cardiopulmonary stress test while consulting on an adult exercise complex stress test at another hospital.  This is extremely flattering that these hospitals and physicians consider me an expert...)

While working 20 hours as a research coordinator at another hospital... and 15 hours in my own hospital as a research coordinator...

 

A lot of hours to work, carrying full-time responsibility in two part time jobs with a full time job... 

 

I have not dropped the ball yet.  Thank god.  There is a lot that goes into each.  I want to take that hard work, dedication, etc, etc.. and transition it into my coursework in PA school, clinicals, and the PANCE.  I am confident I will carry the course work well... it's shifting from these multiple work experiences into multiple courses and balancing that load only.  Hmm, this sounded nicer in my mind rather than out loud.

[UGoLong]

I'm sure there is a lot of gratification working those jobs. Just remember: keep your eyes on the prize.

To get something, you often have to give something up. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then maybe deep down you don't really want that particular goal.

You may have a lot to learn from yourself, if you slow down long enough to listen to your thoughts.


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[Dante311]

13 hours ago, UGoLong said:

I'm sure there is a lot of gratification working those jobs. Just remember: keep your eyes on the prize.

To get something, you often have to give something up. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then maybe deep down you don't really want that particular goal.

You may have a lot to learn from yourself, if you slow down long enough to listen to your thoughts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I already do know a lot about myself.  Thank you though.

[UGoLong]

No offense but, the more I hear, the more out of control things seem to be for you.

Just my opinion, but it sounds like you would benefit from some simplification and peace.

My best to you and your family.


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[Dante311]

1 hour ago, LeQuack said:

Where all did you apply last year? Do schools really make a big deal of .1 off from a 3.0? You'd think all those PCE/HCE hours would counter the GPA issue too.

Last year was sacred heart, temple, touro Manhattan, BU, downstate, upstate, a few others... And yes it is a big deal to most schools.

[Jdabrowski]

I can tell you from personal experience if you have a C in that last 40 credits EVMS is out of the question. I have a 3.77 pre-req for them but couldn't land an interview due to a C+ in my last 40. 

[MarkMass]

I'm also someone who had sub-par undergrad grades and had to do a lot of work in post-bac to build my academic resume.  I can tell you that it does pay off eventually.  

It is annoying that schools care about 0.1 on a GPA.  I was rejected from a school because one GPA was 0.06 below.  They do it because they have so many applicants that they have to narrow it down.  My advice would be to take another class or two to break the 3.0 barrier.  Once I did, I went from 0 to 4 interviews.  The rest of your resume will carry you in that regard.  Keep working, volunteering, and growing your application.  Schools want to see persistence.

My advice for schools would be to concentrate on newer or developing programs and ones with a holistic approach to applications.  They will see what you have to offer and what your circumstances were that led to your GPA issues.  Schools that are well established, like Northeastern, won't give you the time of day unless you have a great GPA or have some crazy heritage. 

[thinkertdm]

Have you looked at Albany medical college?

[Dante311]

4 hours ago, thinkertdm said:

Have you looked at Albany medical college?

It's actually on my list to apply to this year :) thanks!!

15 hours ago, MarkMass said:

I'm also someone who had sub-par undergrad grades and had to do a lot of work in post-bac to build my academic resume.  I can tell you that it does pay off eventually.  

It is annoying that schools care about 0.1 on a GPA.  I was rejected from a school because one GPA was 0.06 below.  They do it because they have so many applicants that they have to narrow it down.  My advice would be to take another class or two to break the 3.0 barrier.  Once I did, I went from 0 to 4 interviews.  The rest of your resume will carry you in that regard.  Keep working, volunteering, and growing your application.  Schools want to see persistence.

My advice for schools would be to concentrate on newer or developing programs and ones with a holistic approach to applications.  They will see what you have to offer and what your circumstances were that led to your GPA issues.  Schools that are well established, like Northeastern, won't give you the time of day unless you have a great GPA or have some crazy heritage. 

Hmm that's weird, someone at Northeastern told me to apply anyways because of my strong PCE/HCE and my Masters degree...

it's so much harder to get into PA school these days.  What was once a secondary career for health care professionals who knew what they were getting into is basically a crash course of medicine for traditional graduates straight out of ugrad with little to no professional experience in patient care, medicine, or healthcare... :/

 

 

On 8/8/2017 at 7:16 PM, Jdabrowski said:

I can tell you from personal experience if you have a C in that last 40 credits EVMS is out of the question. I have a 3.77 pre-req for them but couldn't land an interview due to a C+ in my last 40. 

I guess EVMS is out :(  On the phone they told me they'll only look at my highest GPA degree... that sucks.

[FuturePA9987]

On 8/8/2017 at 7:16 PM, Jdabrowski said:

I can tell you from personal experience if you have a C in that last 40 credits EVMS is out of the question. I have a 3.77 pre-req for them but couldn't land an interview due to a C+ in my last 40. 

@Jdabrowski May I ask what class you received the C+ in? Was it a prereq course or just a random class?

[Jdabrowski]

@FuturePA2021 it was not a class that counted directly toward my pre-reqs. My pre-req GPA for them is 3.77.

[FuturePA9987]

@Jdabrowski  That's crazy. Did Rose or someone from admissions tell you that directly? As long as your GPA is competitive, it shouldn't matter.

[Jdabrowski]

Yes I was told that by Rose. Still waiting for her to tell me how many credits I would need to take to knock if off my last 40 since it is close to being off anyway. Sent her that email over a month ago. :/