Easily one of the most gutsiest, and possibly dumbest things I've ever done.

[TheLastStone]

So, I will just copy and paste the email that I sent to the Dean of graduate school at my current undergrad school. I had the idea last night and I said I was going to do it and I did it. Now I'm not sure whether it was stupid to do this, but I felt I needed to voice something I strongly care about. Would love to know what y'all think about this. I'm sure I bit off more than I can chew, but sometimes you have to just go for it, I guess. Here it is. The title of the email was "Graduate Program Proposition" but it didn't show up here. 

 

Dean Reynolds,

 

I am currently an undergraduate student at UNCC. I was in engineering, but after my father had passed away unexpectedly, I took a semester off to be with family and help work. I took up training as a medic and becoming one. I have since returned to school and my first semester back was great! I have decided that undergraduate learning wasn't where I wanted to end my learning. After doing a lot of research I have chosen the Physician Assistant route. 

 

I have noticed that a lot of schools around NC do have the PA programs. However, UNCC, a huge school in a huge metropolitan area that would easily pull the student population, as well as having two huge, prestigious healthcare systems, it seems odd that we do not have one. I do realize that NP programs are offered but not PA, so there is a partnership with the healthcare system. I do not claim to know all of the ins and outs to logistically have a program come together and provide a cohort and area for it, but I was curious if the PA education program was ever something proposed or planned for the future possibly? It just seems to make sense with all of the resources all around the area. Especially when considering what this profession expected to grow exponentially, compared to just about any other. I have resources from the bureau of labor and statistics to prove that, but it's not at my fingertips at the moment.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to read this, and please respond at your earliest convenience. I just believe this is something that would certainly add to the school's legacy, financial income and appeal from a bigger student population, and ultimately be a win-win for both parties, students and school, involved.

 

Best,

Michael Stone

[SoCal_PA]

Ummm. Manic phase? 

[TheLastStone]

I mean, my school has a partnership with the healthcare system. It's a huge public institution; huge doesn't even give it justice. We have city busses than run from 7 AM- 2 AM, a mall, theatre, etc.. all inside of the school. The school offers various NP programs, CRNA, DPT, MPH, and I was by no means saying it was something that had to absolutely be done. But considering we offer all of those other things, in a huge city, and schools are focused on revenue and making the right choices on programs to have that won't plummet.. this seemed like a reasonable thing to bring up, considering the previously mentioned circumstances.

I don't believe having that thought process makes me seem like I'm having a "manic" phase, though. But I appreciate the input. I did ask for opinions, so I'll take it. If you want to elaborate on it, that'd be more helpful for me, though. 

[ilygurlie]

I think having another PA program in NC just adds to the saturation of the profession that is inevitable within the next couple of years.

I know a couple of people who are not pleased with the nursing program at your institution. They say it is expensive, disorganized, and has awful clinical rotations where they do not feel fully prepared once they graduate. If they can't pull off a good nursing program, how will they pull off a pa program?

Additionally, the healthcare systems in the area has a partnership with the UNC Chapel Hill medical program. PA students would most likely have to be alongside the residents and probably won't get as much one on one experience with their preceptors. 

[TheLastStone]

49 minutes ago, ilygurlie said:

I think having another PA program in NC just adds to the saturation of the profession that is inevitable within the next couple of years.

I know a couple of people who are not pleased with the nursing program at your institution. They say it is expensive, disorganized, and has awful clinical rotations where they do not feel fully prepared once they graduate. If they can't pull off a good nursing program, how will they pull off a pa program?

Additionally, the healthcare systems in the area has a partnership with the UNC Chapel Hill medical program. PA students would most likely have to be alongside the residents and probably won't get as much one on one experience with their preceptors. 

Good points. I like that you gave me an angle to see it from; I appreciate that. I didn't think of it that way, but that does make sense. I didn't know the nursing school was that bad. Obviously the school will advertise as such, but everyone on campus always praises it, but I know nothing of it. I barely see the students, as they tend to take some of the lower level science courses instead of what we take. 

I could see how that would cause an issue with competing at the hospitals. Don't med students and PA students have different preceptors, though? I could be wrong, but I thought that was the case for some reason. 

I obviously can't take back sending the email, but I was curious as to why they didn't have a program. Financially for the school it would only help them, considering we were just given a huge grant of money to build new science buildings. I don't regret sending it, as I was hoping for an explanation from our graduate school department on the matter, and if it had ever been brought up. But I really appreciate your feedback, Gurlie.

[ilygurlie]

25 minutes ago, Michael Stone said:

Good points. I like that you gave me an angle to see it from; I appreciate that. I didn't think of it that way, but that does make sense. I didn't know the nursing school was that bad. Obviously the school will advertise as such, but everyone on campus always praises it, but I know nothing of it. I barely see the students, as they tend to take some of the lower level science courses instead of what we take. 

I could see how that would cause an issue with competing at the hospitals. Don't med students and PA students have different preceptors, though? I could be wrong, but I thought that was the case for some reason. 

I obviously can't take back sending the email, but I was curious as to why they didn't have a program. Financially for the school it would only help them, considering we were just given a huge grant of money to build new science buildings. I don't regret sending it, as I was hoping for an explanation from our graduate school department on the matter, and if it had ever been brought up. But I really appreciate your feedback, Gurlie.

No problem. It took UNC Chapel Hill several years to build up their new PA program and their graduate programs are very highly ranked.

I have heard MD, DO, and PA students sometimes sharing the same clinical sites for their rotations. Depending on if it's a big city I suppose, but I wouldn't want to be fighting other students just to get a chance to suture, you know?

I don't think sending the e-mail was a bad thing. You were just curious and weren't rude about inquiring.

 

[TheLastStone]

Yea, I'm not gonna get mad because someone got to sew a lac up over me. Getting pimped and all of that.. that's a different story ha.
I just recently learned that some schools don't even require the GRE. I thought that was kind of odd, or maybe shooting the students in the foot because it's a good opportunity to try and get good at important standardized tests. The PANCE is standardized, and I'm sure there's many other standardized tests throughout PA school, so maybe that's just me... but I wouldn't choose a school that didn't require it because I think it should be an important part to be evaluated to show how we retain information. That's another subject, though.

For a while I was all for going anywhere for PA school, but when someone told me usually where you go to school and do your rotations is where you'll make your connections and find work, plus, wanting to stay relatively close to home and come back, as I own a house here... I will exclusively be applying to schools just in NC. 

[wookie]

Please no more new PA schools! I can't figure out whether you want a new PA program added to your school so that you can attend it or if it was just an e-mail sent out of curiosity. Programs that were around for a while, though, usually are considered safe bets as they have good, established rotations.

You're right. As long as you get through any accredited program and pass the PANCE, you'll be able to find jobs. However, the quality of rotations is very important. There was a thread recently about a PA program that sent students to an urgent care center for their internal medicine rotation. Those students maybe won't ever get to experience inpatient care unless they work in internal medicine after graduation. Newer programs may be more pressured to make decisions such as these.

If your stats are good and you can choose from several accepted PA programs, I'd recommend going to a program with a longer history instead.

Btw, financial motives are probably all you need to convince a school to open up a PA program. I doubt anyone who makes these decisions cares about legacy.

[boli]

IMO we already are facing the dilution of quality of the providers that are pumped out each year due to the exponential growth of program numbers. There are a limited number of quality rotations available and a limited amount of jobs. Adding more schools that will have "meh" rotations and "meh" education for a number of years while they figure out their programming won't help much at all. We need better providers, not just more. 

[boli]

2 hours ago, Michael Stone said:

Yea, I'm not gonna get mad because someone got to sew a lac up over me. Getting pimped and all of that.. that's a different story ha.

You should. The quality of your rotations is of the UTMOST importance in preparing you to be a good PA, not just pass the PANCE. You should want every opportunity to learn and practice while in school because PA school is so accelerated. Med students get 4 years and a residency to learn. You get 12 months of clinical rotations. Every patient encounter is important and you shouldn't be "okay" with sharing them with NP and MD students just so you can go to a school in NC (or anywhere else for that matter). 

[TheLastStone]

I appreciate everyone's feedback and it makes more and more sense with each response. I definitely have my sights set on programs that have a long and good reputation in NC, such as Duke and others.. but I was just curious why all of these other schools had the programs and ours didn't. I wasn't sending the email to push the Dean's hand or anything, and I really hope he understands that when he sees it. 

Boli, I agree that it is important that I have as much exposure and chances as possible compared to counter parts in rotations. I just meant that I wouldn't get red in the face if just one or two small procedures like that were given to another student. I do agree that we should have more opportunities for the procedures as we only have a fraction of the time that MD/DO students do in their rotations, so it is important. I didn't want to come off sounding like I was uninterested. 

I saw a video recently of student who goes to some university I had never heard of for his PA school. I think he is kind of popular. Anyway, I was on there and he was talking about his IM rotation, actually. He was sent to a prison for his. And he said that since the major stuff was sent out to the hospital they were exposed to lower acuity cases. That got me thinking after you said that, for sure. 

So, I am aiming very high to put myself in a great school with a great foundation, resources and rotations. I am learning more and more, the more that I post and ask for feedback on, watch vlogs, see posts on instagram, etc. I posted not long ago about how I was concerned about oversaturation in the future, but as long as I prepare myself well and shine for my preceptors and reach out during my rotations to make good connections, I feel like I should have a decent chance at finding my niche.

[electric130]

No harm done in asking, and I can see how you would find UNCC a good option possibly. My husband is a UNCC graduate from their engineering program which he said was excellent.  And of course he is a brilliant engineer.  

 However I agree that NC is very saturated, there are 11 PA  programs when I last looked this up, Pfeiffer university is planning to offer a program as well.  Elon and Wingate are both very close to Charlotte.  I have lived in the Charlotte area for close to 15 years, the last two times I interviewed they told me how many applicants they had and I was very surprised.  One was 10 years ago for a IR group in Charlotte, 200 resumes submitted, a GI practice I interviewed with a couple years ago said they also had over 100 resumes submitted.  I was actually offered both of those positions, the GI position was because I have a tremendous amount of experience, the IR one I think was because my doc was retiring and they liked that I wasn't "jumping ship"  and I think I interview well.  This is just to give an example of the amount of competition for one position in this area.  I really don't think pumping out more grads is wise, yes this is a very popular, growing, area but at some point salaries will start to go down, I am honestly already seeing that in the Charlotte area.

[TheLastStone]

17 minutes ago, electric130 said:

No harm done in asking, and I can see how you would find UNCC a good option possibly. My husband is a UNCC graduate from their engineering program which he said was excellent.  And of course he is a brilliant engineer.  

 However I agree that NC is very saturated, there are 11 PA  programs when I last looked this up, Pfeiffer university is planning to offer a program as well.  Elon and Wingate are both very close to Charlotte.  I have lived in the Charlotte area for close to 15 years, the last two times I interviewed they told me how many applicants they had and I was very surprised.  One was 10 years ago for a IR group in Charlotte, 200 resumes submitted, a GI practice I interviewed with a couple years ago said they also had over 100 resumes submitted.  I was actually offered both of those positions, the GI position was because I have a tremendous amount of experience, the IR one I think was because my doc was retiring and they liked that I wasn't "jumping ship"  and I think I interview well.  This is just to give an example of the amount of competition for one position in this area.  I really don't think pumping out more grads is wise, yes this is a very popular, growing, area but at some point salaries will start to go down, I am honestly already seeing that in the Charlotte area.

UNCC definitely has an amazing engineering program. I was in the mechanical engineering department; Motorsports, specifically. I raced growing up, and when I realized I would never have the means, sponsorship wise and etc., I looked into becoming an engineer for a team and possibly a crew chief. I got tired of it after calc 3 and physics. I enjoy science, but I knew I wasn't going to enjoy doing it for the rest of my life like that. 

I'm 26 and I've lived in Charlotte my whole life. I have seen this city change and grow so much over what seems such a relatively short amount of time. There seems to be so many people moving here. Whenever I meet someone and we start talking casually, they can't believe I'm from here. Apparently, being born and raised here is like seeing a unicorn these days ha. Most of my friends and family were born and raised here, though, so I guess we're just a bunch of unicorns! Ha

It is crazy to see how fast everything happens. I miss when it wasn't this hectic in the city. I didn't realize the market here was becoming that saturated, though. I was curious a few times how I might find a decent job, so I would go on the job sites and there seemed to be a bunch of listings for PAs particularly in the Charlotte area, but that doesn't mean there will be that amount in say... 3 or 4 years when I'm a PA looking for work. It's not just my house, so it's not a crazy thing if I move, but I would like to stay around my family. So, if that meant moving an hour away or something to find a good job that's fine too. I tend to prefer the more slow-paced, outside of the city life anyway. That's crazy to hear about the amount of resumes, but it is a big city with a lot of healthcare establishments all over. 

[True Anomaly]

I just find it to be a really odd, out-of-the-blue email.  If I was the dean and got that email, I'm not sure how I would respond to it.  If you were on the board of regents for the university, it would make a lot more sense inquiring about the possibility of adding a new academic program.  Otherwise, it's like contacting one restaurant about this kick-ass dish that another restaurant does and telling them how great it would be for everyone if you made the same dish 

[mmchick]

I think you're weighing your email too heavily to be realistic. You sent a somewhat random thought more than an organized plan that would carry any influence. The Dean is more likely to be amused by your curiosity and get back to you, if he does at all, with a kind "thank you" for showing your interest in future programs. Your email is not going to throw the whole department up into arms as if they've never thought of pursuing a PA program before. I highly doubt this email is anything to be kept up at night about, as True Anomaly put it - if I were a Dean and received this email I wouldn't quite be sure how to respond.

Schools have to weigh a lot before they consider opening a new program, and a lot of it is financially driven. If you aren't an investor, board member, director of anything, etc. then your opinion on the matter is as useful as the rest of us.

Not to put you down in any way, but you seem to be really reflecting on an action that really is not all that serious or impacting whatsoever.

[TheLastStone]

6 hours ago, True Anomaly said:

I just find it to be a really odd, out-of-the-blue email.  If I was the dean and got that email, I'm not sure how I would respond to it.  If you were on the board of regents for the university, it would make a lot more sense inquiring about the possibility of adding a new academic program.  Otherwise, it's like contacting one restaurant about this kick-ass dish that another restaurant does and telling them how great it would be for everyone if you made the same dish 

I like the analogy haha. I was just curious, considering what's all around where I'm at, and the programs offered. It was certainly out-of-the-blue, and even if a program were put together,  I would still be attending another PA program, as it takes time to establish a good reputation and get the right "formula" if should even use that word. But I was just curious, that's all. 

[TheLastStone]

34 minutes ago, mmchick said:

I think you're weighing your email too heavily to be realistic. You sent a somewhat random thought more than an organized plan that would carry any influence. The Dean is more likely to be amused by your curiosity and get back to you, if he does at all, with a kind "thank you" for showing your interest in future programs. Your email is not going to throw the whole department up into arms as if they've never thought of pursuing a PA program before. I highly doubt this email is anything to be kept up at night about, as True Anomaly put it - if I were a Dean and received this email I wouldn't quite be sure how to respond.

Schools have to weigh a lot before they consider opening a new program, and a lot of it is financially driven. If you aren't an investor, board member, director of anything, etc. then your opinion on the matter is as useful as the rest of us.

Not to put you down in any way, but you seem to be really reflecting on an action that really is not all that serious or impacting whatsoever.

No offense taken! I posted on here because I wanted honest feedback and I appreciate it. I had no intention of trying to persuade him with ideas, but I was just curious. I'm sure it has been something brought up. It may be something in the future, but I was up the night before and I just was thinking and thinking... I guess, I felt the urge to ask, more than anything. I'm just a curious person.

I've lived here my whole life and seen the fast growth in this area, and we were even given this HUGE grant that went to all of the UNC schools, divided, from something that happened a really long time ago and a bill was passed last year, freeing up a huge sum of money... hundreds of millions of dollars. So, my school has been adding on like crazy. A new and larger science building, new dorms, a light rail that runs from campus to all the way downtown... which is all the way across town. It seems effective for commuters, as well as students to be able to go and drink and party safely without driving. 

Back to my post, though: I didn't know what kind of response I would get, but I find a sense of comfort and trust here, so I figured why not throw this out there? But, like I responded to Anomaly, and reiterate to you, I appreciate your feedback, and seeing others' perspectives on this gives me different angles to see things from and understand more. I loudly profess to not know everything, and sometimes being curious like this can bite me, but more times than not I'm left with at least knowing more than I started with and it being enough to pique my curiosity. So, I get that sense of peace.

Thanks! :)

[TheLastStone]

Also, to add to the saturation topic.. in the particular area in which I live it is heavily saturated, as it's very close to the heart of the city, where there are two big hospitals from different healthcare systems, which I talked about. I've seen on the job sites and their actual sites that there are still a lot of jobs, but I think for the sake of my own sanity I will move further out and hope to practice in a more rural area than I am at now. I don't necessarily want to be the only place around for 50 miles on a two lane highway with a handful of exits, far enough apart that you'd have to stop to pee before getting to the next, but I would like to get out of the fuss of the traffic and whatnot. If I practice surgery or go into EM, that may be inevitable, but at the same time, if I'm in the building during the busiest hours it shouldn't be too bad in the grand scheme of things. This was somewhat off-topic, though; I just happened to notice a saturation comment above and decided to elaborate. Hope everyone is having a good Monday!

[ilygurlie]

18 minutes ago, Michael Stone said:

Also, to add to the saturation topic.. in the particular area in which I live it is heavily saturated, as it's very close to the heart of the city, where there are two big hospitals from different healthcare systems, which I talked about. I've seen on the job sites and their actual sites that there are still a lot of jobs, but I think for the sake of my own sanity I will move further out and hope to practice in a more rural area than I am at now. I don't necessarily want to be the only place around for 50 miles on a two lane highway with a handful of exits, far enough apart that you'd have to stop to pee before getting to the next, but I would like to get out of the fuss of the traffic and whatnot. If I practice surgery or go into EM, that may be inevitable, but at the same time, if I'm in the building during the busiest hours it shouldn't be too bad in the grand scheme of things. This was somewhat off-topic, though; I just happened to notice a saturation comment above and decided to elaborate. Hope everyone is having a good Monday!

To add to that, Pfeiffer university just put together their new PA program which will accept students next cycle. So it's a total of what.. 12 to 13 PA schools in NC? That is insane.

I hope to go to PA school in NC since it's close to home but i'll probably move after graduation.

[TheLastStone]

13 minutes ago, ilygurlie said:

To add to that, Pfeiffer university just put together their new PA program which will accept students next cycle. So it's a total of what.. 12 to 13 PA schools in NC? That is insane.

I hope to go to PA school in NC since it's close to home but i'll probably move after graduation.

I am applying to a lot of NC schools, as I want to stay here for certain reasons, but I don't believe I'll stay in the metro area for the reasons I listed. It is a lot, for sure. I'm almost hoping that the Dean reads the email and doesn't think twice about it haha. We don't need anymore! ha. I'm somewhat weary of applying to the newer programs like that because of accreditation, and I've heard of horror stories where the school was hurrying to get ready, didactic year was so unorganized and students felt unprepared for clinicals.. I just don't want to deal with that. And I want to have quality rotations as well. Someone posted not long ago on this topic and I was really surprised. I can only hope to get into Duke or UNC or Wake, or another reputable program so I can feel at ease of the curriculum, the faculty, and the quality of education and my rotations. 

[d2305]

I've never heard of North Greenville University, but it looks like they have a PA program. Might be an option. I was looking at the prerequisites for schools, and was interested that my school was listed. Turns out that GWU is not George Washington University. 

[love23cali]

No response back yet?

[TheLastStone]

On 7/31/2017 at 5:56 PM, d2305 said:

I've never heard of North Greenville University, but it looks like they have a PA program. Might be an option. I was looking at the prerequisites for schools, and was interested that my school was listed. Turns out that GWU is not George Washington University. 

North Greenville? I'm confused. Did I miss something? I'm not sure where that's coming from ha. Yea, here in NC it stands for Gardner-Webb, but I'm sure other places it stands for George Washington. Same for USC- University of South Carolina and University of Southern Californa.. Acronyms can be tricky! 

[TheLastStone]

10 hours ago, love23cali said:

No response back yet?

Nope! I have had no response. I probably won't get one. It's so close to our Fall semester starting that he's either out of the office on vacation or busy getting everything ready for the grad students on my campus and whatever else he has to do... meetings and whatnot. I honestly haven't even been worried about it, actually. It was something I asked out of pure curiosity, so just taking it as it comes. I just had a friend pass away unexpectedly so I've been dealing with that, so a lot of stuff that's not as important has kind of gone in the back of my mind. 

 

[d2305]

http://www.ngu.edu/pa-medicine.php