RuralER/Ortho Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Plenty? I don't think so.... does the rare student keep a very limited PRN job? Yes... do "plenty" of students work with any significant frequency during school? Absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 13, 2016 Administrator Share Posted August 13, 2016 C'mon. Plenty of PA students maintain PRN or part time work. So now they are inferior PAs because flipping between roles is hard for a reason you invented on the spot? Let's reign it in a bit. Or reverse it? High quality HCE generates superior PAs, before, during, and after school. I was one of the only ones in my class who did--2 of us out of 42--and I was just doing volunteer firefighting/EMT stuff. I agree that pre-PA HCE is essential. I don't think I've just invented it, but rather put together something that's been nagging me: PA students I've worked with, from two programs, seem to generally be better suited to engage with patients as providers than NP students I've precepted or co-precepted, from three different programs. None of the PA students worked; all of the NP students did. Does this make a statistically valid study? Of course not. Rather, it's a hypothesis now as I've made a projection based on observed reality with a limited data set... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check 2 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 My PA program banned us from working and 1 student actually failed out because she kept working a nonmedical job and slept in classes and missed meetings and such. She was defiant about it. Not a financial hardship - just a very stubborn person. I will cite my professional experience precepting PA students and NP students from 2 programs. My NP students were unprepared, late, less enthusiastic and worked odd schedules with no desire to keep up with mine. One came in 3 days a week and another only half days. They could not take appropriate histories, read EKGs and were certainly not aware of the current guidelines on health maintenance nor willing to look them up. When I challenged my PA students on a subject they came back 90% the next day with a report on what they learned. Most of my PA students were happy sponges anxious to soak in a clinical experience and jump in. If they got to glove up on a first procedure experience - they were enthusiastic- then if the situation allowed - they flew pilot on the next one with me copiloting if I felt they could. The PA program told their students to be on the doorstep when I got there and not leave till I did. NP students did whatever they wanted despite my written requirements to their programs. My NP students did not know sterile technique and not the first thing about biopsies of moles etc. So, in agreement with Rev that my personal experience shows PA students to have a more regimented programs with better preparation for day one. One's experiences shape one's perspectives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralER/Ortho Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 My (much less than 25 year) experience has been essentially identical. Anecdotal, I'm aware.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_pavnp Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I look forward to Rev's published study on why his decision to work PRN generated an inferior provider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralER/Ortho Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 I look forward to you no longer coming to this forum. I imagine we will both be waiting for some time. Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted August 13, 2016 Administrator Share Posted August 13, 2016 I look forward to Rev's published study on why his decision to work PRN generated an inferior provider. I get that you're being snarky--since there's no such thing as a study with an N of 1--but I never said it didn't. What it did do was allow me to maintain uninterrupted fire service participation, which has separate value to me. More importantly, it is also potentially a matter of dose/response curve: I dedicated ~4 hours per week to the volunteer fire service during my PA school studies, not ~40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACdan Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 C'mon. Plenty of PA students maintain PRN or part time work. So now they are inferior PAs because flipping between roles is hard for a reason you invented on the spot? Let's reign it in a bit. Or reverse it? High quality HCE generates superior PAs, before, during, and after school. Sorry, first hand knowledge here. Students can and do carry PRN jobs. Search the forum for your own examples or simply accept that the world is a big place. But please, let's keep this going by continuing to invent things that make for superior providers. Pretty sure that all of us who have or are going through PA school, and commenting here, have a larger sample size of what PA students actually do. And most of your "forum posts" examples are new students or admits asking IF they should work. PA programs discourage employment during school owing to the intensity and dedication to the curriculum required. SOME students do work. Most work no more than 1 shift per week. No where near the 40 hours or more that NP students work while in school. Your trying to equate a few "PRN" shifts a month with full-time work is laughable. 3/40 in my class work (and that has been the average for many classes), and none of them work more than one shift per week. I know you love to blindly defend the NP position while expecting us to never, ever point out disturbing trends we see. But the rise of the online FNP, with students whom can work full-time and graduate with ~700 clinical hours does not inspire confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_pavnp Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 You guys are great at coming to the middle ground when I call you out on it. What began as flatly denying that PA students work at all has become 10% of classes that don't forbid it. If you want to make the argument that working as a generalist directly with patients while in the process of becoming a provider is a negative, I will leave you to that opinion. Please, publish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted August 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted August 13, 2016 this isn't a terribly productive discussion. will close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.