Research?

[teenyfish]

I was looking over the CASPA FAQs to get ready for the upcoming cycle and I noticed that research experience should not appear as college credit. One of the classes I took was a directed study, where I worked 1:1 with a professor doing 100% research, no testing or other coursework was involved. I did this for 3 semesters but only 1 of them is listed as a class on my transcript. I would like to list this as research experience but I'm not sure if it would be appropriate? 

[Teacher2PAC]

I called CASPA directly for the same question and they said it was not appropriate to list a research experience for which credit was received on a transcript. 

[MT2PA]

It's the same thing as HCE not counting if it's for credit/part of a training program (i.e nursing school clinicals don't count as HCE bc you are doing it for school even if you do have patient contact).

[teenyfish]

Ah I see, bummer, I've done a lot of poster/oral presentations for the project as well. 

[rev ronin]

Ah I see, bummer, I've done a lot of poster/oral presentations for the project as well. 

So?  If you want people to care about your research, apply to med school, not PA school.  PA is a clinically-oriented, rather than research-oriented, profession.  I think it'd be more intellectually honest if CASPA didn't even have specific spaces to list research experience.

[teenyfish]

So?  If you want people to care about your research, apply to med school, not PA school.  PA is a clinically-oriented, rather than research-oriented, profession.  I think it'd be more intellectually honest if CASPA didn't even have specific spaces to list research experience.

 

A few of the programs I've looked at require a scholarly project, and in some cases a presentation of this project to faculty or at a symposium. Wouldn't this be looked upon as positive experience in some capacity? I don't think it would make or break my application but it's something I've done that I'm proud of and thought be at least a bit relevant. 

[lanime]

Instead of listing my research directly, I listed my publications and presentations in the achievements (can't remember is that's what it's called) section, since it was separate and extra from what I received credit for.

[db_pavnp]

A few of the programs I've looked at require a scholarly project, and in some cases a presentation of this project to faculty or at a symposium. Wouldn't this be looked upon as positive experience in some capacity? I don't think it would make or break my application but it's something I've done that I'm proud of and thought be at least a bit relevant. 

 

Unless I am misreading, rev's opinion obviously doesn't apply to those programs.  The CAPSA rule is probably there to avoid double dipping, not to suggest that research isn't important.

[rev ronin]

Pretty much everyone has to do some sort of a project in PA school, but mine was very much an EBM systematic review, rather than doing original research.  The former is within the scope of PA practice, in terms of influencing your SPs based on evidence.  Original research is not--know any PI PA's?  Me neither.

[db_pavnp]

Programs are diverse.  Some require it, as OP stated.

[rev ronin]

Programs are diverse.  Some require it, as OP stated.

... and even the programs (all of them around my area, and all the ones I've talked with other PAs about) which require some sort of research during school do not qualify PAs to WORK as researchers in any meaningful way, which is why I highlighted the fact that "research" projects in PA school do not entail "medical research" as most people think of it.  Thus, my assertion that having a separate section on CASPA is misleading, and why my opinion on the appropriateness of a research section on CASPA applies to ALL PA programs, whether or not they require some research in PA school.

 

My point wasn't ever that programs didn't require it on entry; some clearly do, but that is beside the fact that asking for research experience on CASPA is likely misleading pre-PAs about how much research PAs can actually do *as PAs*. Heck, CASPA might as well have a "spiritual care/chaplaincy experience" section, because I do far more of that in my role as a primary care provider than I ever do any sort of research.

 

Specifically to the OPs situation, being a research assistant for three terms is a far cry from what I did for research (and what I've heard of in other folks' programs) in PA school.  Even if his ideal school thinks he's going to be a better candidate for doing that research, that will not likely translate to additional or higher level research opportunities post-graduation *on the basis of the master's degree and PA license*.

 

That may be far too subtle a semantic difference, but I think we do a disservice asking for research experience for PA school, when research vs. no research is one of the things that differentiates MD/DO path from PA.

[db_pavnp]

I would think it odd if PA programs thumbed their nose at research purely because the programs themselves are not generating researchers.  If there is a place for orgo II and non-science majors in the application process, there is a place for research and publication.  These are educational accomplishments and should appear on applications.  I also have a hard time picturing the guy who applies and becomes so deeply confused about the research section on CASPA that they imagine it is an MS with a research focus.  If you want to defend this imaginary guy from getting turned around mid-CAPSA, I suppose that is your cross to bear.

[Teacher2PAC]

I agree db_pavnp, and not to mention there are a number of PA-C, PhDs who are published in JAAPA. 

[rev ronin]

I agree db_pavnp, and not to mention there are a number of PA-C, PhDs who are published in JAAPA. 

There's "research" and then there's research. Anyone can research anything at any time.  Indeed, to get a Ph.D. you have to have researched something.  However, JAAPA isn't remotely in the same league as, say, NEJM, and the sole "Original Research" in this month's JAAPA is about postgraduate PA training programs.  Nothing against that sort of research, but it's not medical research. Research about the business or practice of medicine does not equate to developing new treatments and therapies, which is the point of medical research.

[Teacher2PAC]

Found this from a PA-C: http://www.columbia.edu/~cjd11/charles_dimaggio/DIRE/resources/Misc/paResearchBeamer.pdf

 

It is interesting. 

[db_pavnp]

Nothing against that sort of research, but it's not medical research. Research about the business or practice of medicine does not equate to developing new treatments and therapies, which is the point of medical research.

 

This is a common misconception on the forum - that the term "medical" can be tossed onto something and it suddenly very strictly fits an extremely narrow definition.  "Medical" research includes much, much more than what you suggest.  And even it if didn't, patients are impacted in unimaginably diverse ways beyond the raw development of *new* treatments and therapies so much so that this mistaken definition of "medical" is useless.

[gcox87]

Let's get back on track.

 

List the two semesters you did research and did not obtain credit on your application. It is an accomplishment. Also, list any publications, poster presentations or seminar talks under awards/honors.

 

Rev is right. PAs should not expect to continue research after they graduate, but having it listed should look nice on an application.

 

Rev, I know some schools who look favorably on applicants who have played high school or college sports. They say it helps build character, and I would argue that research does as well.

[rev ronin]

Rev, I know some schools who look favorably on applicants who have played high school or college sports. They say it helps build character, and I would argue that research does as well.

Yes, I'm sure you're correct.  I think the only difference in the two examples pre-PA activities is that no one would remotely think that playing professional sports is a part of a normal PA career trajectory, while research might well be reasonably misunderstood to be a bigger part of PA life than it actually is, and having a specific CASPA section regarding research would only possibly add to the confusion.

[Teacher2PAC]

http://www.wakehealth.edu/School/Physician-Assistant-Program/MMS-PhD-Dual-Degree.htm

[arandy13]

My first post. Hi everyone!

 

It seems that CASPA has changed their rules for what can be reported as research. Can anyone confirm that I'm not imagining things?

 

The FAQ page used to say:

     "-Research projects done in addition to classroom work; research entries should NOT appear as credit on a school transcript."

 

However, after looking over the FAQ today, it now says:

     "-Research projects completed preferably in addition to or outside of regular classroom work."

 

The key word is preferably, meaning that we can now report research that we took for credit? I will call CASPA tomorrow to clarify.

[pabound2016]

My first post. Hi everyone!

 

It seems that CASPA has changed their rules for what can be reported as research. Can anyone confirm that I'm not imagining things?

 

The FAQ page used to say:

     "-Research projects done in addition to classroom work; research entries should NOT appear as credit on a school transcript."

 

However, after looking over the FAQ today, it now says:

     "-Research projects completed preferably in addition to or outside of regular classroom work."

 

The key word is preferably, meaning that we can now report research that we took for credit? I will call CASPA tomorrow to clarify.

I am pretty sure CASPA is open for applicants to submit research experiences for credit.  You can categorize an experience as research AND having receiving academic credit from it.