Reapplying!

[kawatson]

Well, looks like I will be reapplying and I know I'm not alone!

 

I thought I had a very strong application, but obviously something was wrong. My one interview seemed to go well, but I got concerned when they implied I had "lots of choices to make" when in reality it was my only shot, and also when two of my interviewers asked why I didn't "just apply to med school with all this research experience?". 

 

Quick stats:

Undergraduate: George Washington University

Undergrad GPA: 3.98

Science GPA: 3.98

Post-Bac GPA: 4.0

GRE: 159Q 159V 4.0W

Healthcare Exp: I work at Shriners Burns Hospital and UTMB in clinical research (2.5 yrs full time), I work alongside PA's but I didn't list this as "shadowing" experience and I guess I should have.

Recs: two MDs including the chief of burn surgery and my boss who is a PhD and head of research (obviously next time I will want to get a PA to write one instead)

 

Anyway I started this because the old thread seems to be defunct and I know I could use some advice on how to proceed form here. I'm sure others could too!

 

My plan as of right now is to take a CNA course and try to work in that field for the next year. It will mean a pay cut and it's honestly a bit below what I do now, but it seems to be the best and fastest way into a more hands-on career, which I can only assume is my biggest missing piece.

 

I'll also be re-writing my personal statement and I suppose looking into different schools for this cycle.

 

Anyway, the whole process seems like a little bit of a crap-shoot at times.

 

Who else is reapplying?! Got any tips or concerns?! 

 

 

[MT2PA]

You were right not to list working along side a PA as shadow experience - they are 2 different things.  That said, I think you're on the right track that your HCE was a red flag.  You might want to also specifically shadow some PAs.  

 

Barring that - find programs that consider research experience acceptable/valuable/desired HCE.  You may have just targeted the wrong programs with the HCE you had.

 

You do have an app (based on what is here) that would indicate med school is an option for you.  With little hands on experience and no PA shadowing, adcoms were probably concerned you hadn't done your research on WHY PA instead of MD.

[cop to pa]

As above: no HCE, no shadowing, no PA LOR. These are some flags that need to be addressed to improve your chances. The high research and high GPA is great, but not a typical PA background. Also, fine tune your personal statement. No matter how good it is, if you're reapplying, take another hack at fine tuning it.

[paproof]

After you get a good amount of HCE you should be a shoo-in for the PA program of your choice. You're on the right track though. Good luck!

[lanime]

I also have quite a bit of research experience, zero shadowing and had no LORs from a PA (had an MD, professor & manager). My GPA and GRE are also lower than yours... However, I have a lot of HCE. So, that is definitely where you should focus your efforts for next cycle. Nothing should be beneath you, as it is all a learning experience and part of the journey/joy of being a provider! Use your experience to write a revamped PS with your new set of "PA is right for me" eyes and attitude! Good luck to you; I'm sure next year will be your year, so hang in there.

[MyNameWasUsed]

Well, this is terrifying. 

[loliz]

The comment of "lots of choices to make" was probably in reference to something you said in your interview.... You very well could have inadvertently inferred that you were considering other careers. 

I don't think having research is hurting your app, but make sure you have the basics as well. Rewrite your personal statement and choose your LOR writers carefully. 

 

I do agree that your research position alongside PAs is not shadowing. Reporting as such is misleading. 

[UGoLong]

I agree. You need some hands-on experience to apply. Your grades are excellent.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[puravidaPA]

Hi there!

 

You've obviously knocked the GPA/GRE requirements out of the park, and schools aren't worried about your academic capability. However, you probably need to demonstrate "knowledge of profession" and your commitment to it. As others have mentioned, this would include gaining HCE/PCE, shadowing PAs (not just working alongside them!), getting that LOR, and speaking to these things in your personal statement. You CAN safely mention something along the lines of "working alongside PAs made me realize I was interested because X, so I shadowed and learned Y and Z".

 

Try to think of it from an Adcom point of view. How do they know you've done your homework on what PAs are, made sure it's a good fit for you, and aren't just someone who wants to do it because medical school is too long? Or because you decided you want to work in healthcare and that seemed like a good route? Show them it's a conscious, well thought-out decision and not a whim, through both your actions and your personal statement. Because of the volume of applicants, I felt like I really had to PROVE everything and the benefit of the doubt wasn't given. Otherwise, how would they separate people who are casually interested because of what they've read in the news, and people who are pursuing it at all costs?

 

Are you involved in your state PA organization? Do you read AAPA's briefings, news, etc? (You can get a pre PA membership but there are also lots of things freely viewable online).

[MyNameWasUsed]

I agree that OP should get more PCE (patient care experience) but I don't think he/she is completely lacking. " I work at Shriners Burns Hospital and UTMB in clinical research (2.5 yrs full time), I work alongside PA's but I didn't list this as "shadowing" experience and I guess I should have." seems like good HCE even if its not PCE. It's pretty crazy you didn't get multiple interviews and at least one acceptance for this cycle. I feel that the problem is more related to your school list than your PCE. Don't get me wrong you should definitely gain PCE for the next cycle to increase your chances. 

[pa-wannabe]

Let me first start by saying the OP has some impressive stats, and it goes to show how much diversity there is in background experience among aspiring PAs.

 

I, too, am reapplying after striking out the first time around. I mostly applied during this past cycle as a way of "getting my feet wet" and understanding the application process. I had a feeling it wasn't my time, but I applied anyway as a shot in the dark. I put in applications to 7 schools which led to one interview (placed number 38 on their waitlist).

 

Here's my worry: I have a non-traditional degree (art) but have taken all the prerequisites (and then some) for the schools I'm interested in. cGPA: 3.6, sGPA: 3.7 and I've received all A's in my upper level science courses that I've taken since graduating. I know there is a distinct difference between HCE and PCE. For HCE I've worked 1,000+ hours as a pharm tech and 2,000+ hours in medical billing. I know I definitely need to do some more shadowing and am in the process of applying to shadow a PA at the VA. Unfortunately, I'm not in the position of having parents or a significant other who can support me financially while I work, go to school, shadow, and so on. I've worked in medical billing because it is the highest paying entry level healthcare work in my area. I am sure a major component of my application that is lacking is PCE, so I have been looking into various certifications or on-the-job training. The result: very little. I have a paramedic in the family, and he has flat out said there are no EMT positions in this area and they pay is terrible if you manage to find something part-time/PRN... the market is too saturated. MA, RT, and X-ray tech positions cost upwards of $15,000 (which I would have to pay out of pocket) and would take a year to complete (which I would not be able to work full-time). So, that brought me to the CNA route. It would cost $1,000 for a two month course. It's a 5 day/week program, so I would have to leave my current job and not work for 2 months. Once completed, I would only be making about $9/hr (the average in my city). I guess what I'm asking is, has anyone else ever had this problem? It seems like so many prospective PA applicants have someone who can financially support them while they take on these endeavors. I wish I could, but at the end of the day, my rent and bills are my responsibility. To work as a CNA for $9/hr would break me. Between working full time now, going to school after work, and shadowing on weekends, I don't even know where to work in volunteer PCE at this point. I feel so discouraged about reapplying. I'm just curious if any of you ever ran into this problem and how you managed to overcome it.

 

I (like many applicants) have been working hard toward this goal for the last 3+ years. I'm committed to it, but the competition is fierce.

[pc21]

@pa-wannabe many people are in your same boat financially. If you really want to become a PA and get some hands on experience, I would suggest becoming a CNA or EMT, yes you would have to take work off and work for less money. Take out a loan to help you through. I had to do this for my first job in the medical field. I made $9 an hour and went to school with no financial help from anyone. I had to take out loans to pay rent/bills and now I am accepted to PA school and will be starting this summer at 23. Yes I am in a lot of debt for the loans but it got me into school which is my dream. You have to decide if debt is worth it because it looks like this is one of your few options

[pa-wannabe]

Thanks, @pc21. You're truly the first person I've talked to who had a similar experience. I hadn't considered taking out a loan. I guess my old student loans currently in repayment have made me shy away from the idea of taking on more debt prior to PA school. Thank you for your input, and it's definitely a plan to consider. I'm glad to hear it paid off for you, and congratulations on your acceptance!

[had1118]

Thanks, @pc21. You're truly the first person I've talked to who had a similar experience. I hadn't considered taking out a loan. I guess my old student loans currently in repayment have made me shy away from the idea of taking on more debt prior to PA school. I'm glad to hear it paid off for you, and congratulations on your acceptance!

I am not so sure I would take out loans and quit my job to become a CNA and gain PCE.  There are other ways, and students loans will come like a brute force soon enough. Being financially wise now will help in the long run when you do get into PA school. 

 

Have you researched volunteer locations in your area that would offer PCE?  I currently volunteering at my local free health clinic and get PCE. However, I had plenty of paid PCE so if your programs specify paid experience that wouldn't help.  How about ER scribe if you are already in medical billing? 

 

Also, MANY programs do not even require experience these days (which is shocking to me), or only want 200 hours or so. I just don't think I would sell my soul to loans just yet without exhausting all other options.  Do you have 401K?

 

EDIT-Many hospice and home health companies in my area also allow home health aides which are essentially CNA positions with plenty of hands on patient interaction without the CNA cert. You could do that on weekends and keep your day job. Just a thought.

[pa-wannabe]

@had1118, I definitely agree that a loan should be an absolute last resort. PA school loans themselves are a large enough undertaking, especially when coupled with undergrad loans still on the table. If it comes to that point, I'd rather take out a loan to better my chances of being accepted, but a personal loan right now doesn't feel like a good step for me.

 

I have researched volunteer programs in the area (free clinic, Red Cross, volunteer hospice, etc.), but unless you are an RN, LPN, or PA, the other positions are strictly clerical with no patient care whatsoever. I did find two local personal care homes that have openings for patient care aides, which requires no certification. The pay would still be only $9/hr, but at least I wouldn't have to pay $1,000 and not work for two months. It's only part-time, so I could get 500-1,000 hours by the end of the year depending on how generous the scheduling is. I applied to both positions and have yet to hear back, but it has only been a week. There again, my worry is how I'm going to stack up against applicants with 2,000+ hours of EMT or MA experience. With each passing year, the pool of applicants becomes more and more competitive. I'm just hoping for an opportunity to interview next year so I can prove my worth and my ability to be just as dedicated and competent as someone with more in-depth PCE.

 

Like many others have said, you gotta stand out and show commitment.

[lanime]

I have had zero financial support and managed to work at low paying jobs for many years (in pricy areas) to get experience and then put myself through nursing school. I finally have a great paying job & will be giving that up to pursue my career goals and attend PA school. Dreams/goals take sacrifice and hard work. And in the end you'll be a stronger and well rounded person from it. Look at ways you can cut down on expenses in order to achieve this... I had no car & rode the bus for a long time, didn't have a tv/cable, ate at home, etc. It can be done & you are not alone! Good luck to you & stay motivated - you will succeed!!

[had1118]

@had1118, I definitely agree that a loan should be an absolute last resort. PA school loans themselves are a large enough undertaking, especially when coupled with undergrad loans still on the table. If it comes to that point, I'd rather take out a loan to better my chances of being accepted, but a personal loan right now doesn't feel like a good step for me.

 

I have researched volunteer programs in the area (free clinic, Red Cross, volunteer hospice, etc.), but unless you are an RN, LPN, or PA, the other positions are strictly clerical with no patient care whatsoever. I did find two local personal care homes that have openings for patient care aides, which requires no certification. The pay would still be only $9/hr, but at least I wouldn't have to pay $1,000 and not work for two months. It's only part-time, so I could get 500-1,000 hours by the end of the year depending on how generous the scheduling is. I applied to both positions and have yet to hear back, but it has only been a week. There again, my worry is how I'm going to stack up against applicants with 2,000+ hours of EMT or MA experience. With each passing year, the pool of applicants becomes more and more competitive. I'm just hoping for an opportunity to interview next year so I can prove my worth and my ability to be just as dedicated and competent as someone with more in-depth PCE.

 

Like many others have said, you gotta stand out and show commitment.

It is definitely tough! Maybe the home health jobs will pan out. Check out PCT with dialysis centers too. Here they require no certs and do on-the-job training and the starting pay is $15. Once you get trained, that will increase. Some will even pay towards school. Plus, you get end of life experience which a PA friend of mine on an adcom said really helps you to stand out.  

 

I totally understand the willingness to do anything and everything you can to be competitive. I actually quit my nicely compensated job in healthcare to apply this cycle. I had plenty of experience, but needed more volunteer hours, shadowing, and had several prerequisites to finish. I haven't been accepted (yet-fingers crossed). Competition is crazy.  I had 22K hours of great hands on experience and a competitive GPA but things just haven't worked out so far.

 

I agree with the original post too, that applying is really a crap-shoot at times, and often just the luck of the draw. Looking back though, I wish I had not quit my job even though it seemed like the best choice at the time. That's the reason I made my post.  I too want to become a PA more than anything, but I could've kept my job and figured out other ways to make it all work. :-/  

 

Anyway, enough of my ramble....GOOD LUCK, do what you feel is best, and knock 'em dead!  Hopefully, next cycle will be yours!