Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 25, 2011 http://nurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com/Features/Articles/A-Million-Dollar-PA-Public-Education-Campaign-for-Free.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 http://nurse-practitioners-and-physician-assistants.advanceweb.com/Features/Articles/A-Million-Dollar-PA-Public-Education-Campaign-for-Free.aspx What a bunch of ... NICE. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 "It's a question with no clear answer. An argument without resolution. A debate that refuses to go away. Is "physician assistant" a respectful and time-tested title for a group of well-trained health care practitioners? Or is it a demeaning label that damages efforts to advance the profession? It depends on whom you ask. Or don't ask, even". If the title "Physician Assistant" is to be taken so literally as only being an "assistant to a doctor" and nothing else....... Why aren't Nurse Practitioners agruing for a name change? I mean all they're doing is practicing nursing..right?...Our title is perfect. Been doing this for 12 yrs, I have as of yet to have to explain my job. At least here in the greater Clearwater Fl area, patients are knowledgeable. Going back and Google-searching this topic, it's almost as old as the profession itself. And after reading many articles, and also perusing the "comment" sections and MD chatter I'm disappointed to see how such a trival topic continues to flourish.... A title-change won't impact a PA's ability to provide health care, period. His (her) clinical expertise will. I sent a letter to FAPA stating my objections to a title change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physio Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 i kind of agree with the above, and thats from an outsiders point of view. nursing is a good example. it used to be that nurses were "just nurses" to everyone. now its a sought after career, and people know that they can make good money (although a lot of folks think they make more than they do). seems like nursing turned around the image, rather than expecting a title to hold them back. Nursing is different since they can actually "control" their image. They have really turned around their image because they've advocated for themselves and their title. Advocating for the PA is different, because to advocate for the title of Physician "Assistant" effectively would require one to advocate for all so-called "assistants" (CNA,MA...) since its obviously part of our title and thus the lay person would logically compare us to them. So, essentially, we'd be advocating that all assistants should no longer be viewed as what society today views as an assistant since since we believe PAs don't function as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain1028 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Nurses also get a sweet National Ad campaign that one can see on the Johnson & Johnson ads on TV. Can't touch that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACali Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Let's be honest...Nurse sounds a lot better than "Assistant" I think a title change WILL impact PA's ability to provide health care. It will open more doors for PAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 If the title "Physician Assistant" is to be taken so literally as only being an "assistant to a doctor" and nothing else....... Why aren't Nurse Practitioners agruing for a name change? I mean all they're doing is practicing nursing..right?...Our title is perfect. Been doing this for 12 yrs, I have as of yet to have to explain my job. At least here in the greater Clearwater Fl area, patients are knowledgeable. Going back and Google-searching this topic, it's almost as old as the profession itself. And after reading many articles, and also perusing the "comment" sections and MD chatter I'm disappointed to see how such a trival topic continues to flourish.... A title-change won't impact a PA's ability to provide health care, period. His (her) clinical expertise will. I sent a letter to FAPA stating my objections to a title change. Nurses are pushing for a title change...it's "Doctor". The recommendation for the DNP is their case for a title which will create opportunities and open doors for their profession. I will answer your arguments with two points- 1. It is the domain of PAs to determine their own title. A title is the name which best represents what we are and what we do. The perceived professional advantages aside, I ask- what is inherently wrong with the profession voting for a title which describes who we are? Just because you feel things have been fine for you in your career doesn't mean it has been for everyone else. Isn't that a provincial view to look at it only in how it affects/has effected you? 2. There are numerous examples, on this forum and elsewhere, of how the "assistant" title has kept PAs out of clinical and administrative roles. The gatekeepers to leadership positions or professional opportunities will scoff at dealing with an "assistant". This is not an opinion but true stories of real PAs out there trying to advance themselves and the profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelseff Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Nurses have been around for a million years and "the public" knows that they are "medical". It is also safe to say that most people perceive nurses as the "closest thing to a doctor." I have many times in my short career as a PA have been asked if I was studying to be a Nurse or if I was going to "move on to get my nursing degree." Often said at the end of the visit AFTER I just prescribed them medication. :saddd: But YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 "It's a question with no clear answer. An argument without resolution. A debate that refuses to go away. Is "physician assistant" a respectful and time-tested title for a group of well-trained health care practitioners? Or is it a demeaning label that damages efforts to advance the profession? It depends on whom you ask. Or don't ask, even". If the title "Physician Assistant" is to be taken so literally as only being an "assistant to a doctor" and nothing else....... Why aren't Nurse Practitioners agruing for a name change? I mean all they're doing is practicing nursing..right?...Our title is perfect. Been doing this for 12 yrs, I have as of yet to have to explain my job. At least here in the greater Clearwater Fl area, patients are knowledgeable. Going back and Google-searching this topic, it's almost as old as the profession itself. And after reading many articles, and also perusing the "comment" sections and MD chatter I'm disappointed to see how such a trival topic continues to flourish.... A title-change won't impact a PA's ability to provide health care, period. His (her) clinical expertise will. I sent a letter to FAPA stating my objections to a title change. My SP was out of the office today, and a patient didn't want to see me because she thought I was similar to a Medical Assistant in some way. I had to go and explain to her, then she understood and allowed me to proceed with her wound care. You can object all you want, but that won't change the fact. Further, there's a huge difference between the words 'practitioner' and 'assistant', and I won't insult any reader's intelligence by taking the time to explain. Maybe the reason NPs aren't arguing for a name change (on wait, only DOCTOR), is that they're now licensed to practice independently in, what, 14 states? Hmmmm ... but you go ahead and fight fight fight to stay in the trenches. Me, I want to get out there and practice at the level I've been educated at, i.e. as a practitioner and not an assistant. *edited to note: but even if the name change weren't to happen, tho i think in this age of communication that it probably is going to, i would still love my job :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Nurses are pushing for a title change...it's "Doctor". The recommendation for the DNP is their case for a title ..... Somewhat misleading. As their degree creep actually involves obtaining a "doctorate" degree. A PA with a doctorate, "Doctorate-Physician-Assistant" seems redundant. IF a name change is so "vital" to the PA future then I'd advocate dropping the "Physician" part of our name. Because just as the "Physician Assistant" title is seemingly misunderstood, so to will "Physcan Associate"... Associate implies "partner", Partner implies "equal"....... This is all semantics, so anyone who supports a discussion on "assistant" really should understand the fuuture dilemma Either way, anyone who is frustrated with having to explain what PA means/does will agree that with change we will still have to explain 1. the name change and 2. WHat Physician Associate is and 3. why the change......I'm sorry but I don't have that much extra time in the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 If folks want to change the name of the profession, and are willing to do the heavy lifting, all the more power to you. Putting public relations and marketing efforts on hold for the years it will take to accomplish this in fifty states and additional jurisdictions? Not a really intelligent or reasonable idea in my opinion at this point of our professional evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 It's actually a bit frightening and more than a bit sad to see people protesting a change which is so due. I hate to point fingers, but these are the types of people who need to step aside in this day and age of NPs gaining so much ground medically and politically ... it's like one political party protesting any type of better health care plan, but failing to take any actions of their own. As to addressing patient questions about the name, we already have to do that with 'PA' (which will stay the same) as it is. At least there will be far less issues with the 'assistant' misnomer. And it really isn't too difficult to say, 'not a physician, a physician associate'. Right there you a have a more accurate and positive presentation/representation, and it's one that plainly says, 'i'm not a doctor, but i'm similar'. If any more questioning comes, a simple 'they completed more schooling and i work with them very closely' will be enough. Where it will make an even more substantial impact is on the medical/political level. as·so·ci·ate [v. uh-soh-shee-eyt, -see-; n., adj., uh-soh-shee-it, -eyt, -see-] Show IPA verb, -at·ed, -at·ing, noun, adjective verb (used with object) 1.to connect or bring into relation, as thought, feeling, memory, etc.: Many people associate dark clouds with depression and gloom. 2.to join as a companion, partner, or ally: to associate oneself with a cause. 3.to unite; combine: coal associated with shale. verb (used without object) 4.to enter into union; unite. 5.to keep company, as a friend, companion, or ally: He was accused of associating with known criminals. 6.to join together as partners or colleagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Somewhat misleading. As their degree creep actually involves obtaining a "doctorate" degree. A PA with a doctorate, "Doctorate-Physician-Assistant" seems redundant. PAs are not pushing a universal doctorate. Nursing had rebranded themselves- just as Associate is trying to do- only by using their degree. This is primarily about how perception affects reality, so whether the perception is acheived by a degree or a cosmetic name change, the end result is what term the public/healthcare uses and how it affects our opportunities. IF a name change is so "vital" to the PA future then I'd advocate dropping the "Physician" part of our name. Because just as the "Physician Assistant" title is seemingly misunderstood, so to will "Physcan Associate"... Associate implies "partner", Partner implies "equal"....... This is all semantics, so anyone who supports a discussion on "assistant" really should understand the fuuture dilemma well, I wouldn't let things get too far ahead just yet. The profession is not dying acutely from Assistant. But it can only clarify the role by using Associate. as far as equality, I would bet that our PA colleagues in non specialty practice certainly feel that their productivity and workload merit equality if we are looking at $$$/RVUs. I miss what you are saying about "future dillema". If both titles are misunderstood, where is the error in choosing the one that is more accuratley descriptive and dumping the one that has evidently hindered PAs in the past? Either way, anyone who is frustrated with having to explain what PA means/does will agree that with change we will still have to explain 1. the name change and 2. WHat Physician Associate is and 3. why the change......I'm sorry but I don't have that much extra time in the day... We can ask the several other professions who have changed their title and see if they had many headaches...chiro, podiatry, etc. They seem to be doing OK. And you mentioned that you have not had to explain your title in 12 yrs. If your pts are so satsified with your care currently, why would Associate change that for the worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulPA Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 First to those that have never had to explain what a PA is I say really? honestly? you have never had to explain to a pt, Dr. med student, family or friend what a PA is.... how wonderful! I have had to explain to all at one point in the last 5 yrs and I live in a pretty PA friendly state. Second I don't believe that "Associate" in anyway implies "equal" parnters. In fact in many professions the just the word "associate" is used as in a legal practice, CPA, Marketing firm etc... Associate implies a closer collaboration than Assistant IMHO I don't have to explain often what a PA is as a hospitalist PA and I still feel that Associate is a better term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 26, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2011 Putting public relations and marketing efforts on hold for the years it will take to accomplish this in fifty states and additional jurisdictions? Not a really intelligent or reasonable idea in my opinion at this point of our professional evolution. the aapa has put it on hold for 40+ yrs already so what's another 5 or so....they have yet to promote the CURRENT title to the public...."the president still thinks we are physician's assistants....see his announcement yesterday about increasing options for veterans.... "one pt at a time" (the aapa mantra, aka working pa's do all the work, we do nothing) isn't cutting it......I work in one of the top 3 pa friendly states and the vast majority of pts here have no idea what a pa is....they either think I am a medical assistant or a physician.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIPPER Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Second I don't believe that "Associate" in anyway implies "equal" parnters. In fact in many professions the just the word "associate" is used as in a legal practice, CPA, Marketing firm etc... Associate implies a closer collaboration than Assistant IMHO . Not the best example. Paralegals, etc aren't "associates" in a practice as they are not on equal footing, nor will you hear an attorney refer to the PL as "my associate" . Re Heme's definition of "associate".. If we look at "assistant" you will see no connotation implying subservience/inferiority. So that may be a magnified self-perception and lower-than-necessary self-esteem issue... We should all be very proud of our profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiseordinance Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Re Heme's definition of "associate".. If we look at "assistant" you will see no connotation implying subservience/inferiority. So that may be a magnified self-perception and lower-than-necessary self-esteem issue... We should all be very proud of our profession. The definition depends on the source. Dictionary.com has this as one of the meanings of assistant: "a person who is subordinate to another in rank, function, etc.; one holding a secondary rank in an office or post: He was assistant to the office manager." That sounds pretty subservient to me, and I get the feeling (through many conversations) that the general public views the definition in a similar context. It's certainly not a fitting title for those who work in near-complete autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersenpa Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Not the best example. Paralegals, etc aren't "associates" in a practice as they are not on equal footing, nor will you hear an attorney refer to the PL as "my associate" . Re Heme's definition of "associate".. If we look at "assistant" you will see no connotation implying subservience/inferiority. So that may be a magnified self-perception and lower-than-necessary self-esteem issue... We should all be very proud of our profession. the freedictionary.com- 1. Holding an auxiliary position; subordinate. 2. Giving aid; auxiliary. dctionary.com- a person who is subordinate to another in rank, function, etc.; one holding a secondary rank in an office or post: He was assistant to the office manager. Plus, it is a false equivocation between how PAs see their profession perceived and their pride in their profession. We are all proud of what we do personally and how PAs contribute to health care. That has NOTHING to do with how we are viewed externally. given that another source uses "Helper" as a synonym for assistant, t is easy to see how much of the public (and even other health professionals) view Physician Assistants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 the aapa has put it on hold for 40+ yrs already so what's another 5 or so....they have yet to promote the CURRENT title to the public...."the president still thinks we are physician's assistants....see his announcement yesterday about increasing options for veterans...."one pt at a time" (the aapa mantra, aka working pa's do all the work, we do nothing) isn't cutting it......I work in one of the top 3 pa friendly states and the vast majority of pts here have no idea what a pa is....they either think I am a medical assistant or a physician.... One of the top and most desirable professions on any list. Great practice environments in nearly all states. Great pay. overwhelming demand. How in the wide, wide world of sports do you think this happened?!? Yep, the AAPA has been sitting on its hands for 40+ plus years.... So, your patients equating you with a physician is a bad thing?! 5 years to change the title in 50 states and many more jurisdictions? I have to give you one thing. You are an optimist. :-) We will see how that plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 First to those that have never had to explain what a PA is I say really? honestly? you have never had to explain to a pt, Dr. med student, family or friend what a PA is.... how wonderful! I have had to explain to all at one point in the last 5 yrs and I live in a pretty PA friendly state. Explain to me how changing assistant to associate will change this reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted October 27, 2011 Author Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2011 one of the top and most desirable professions on any list. Great practice environments in nearly all states. Great pay. Overwhelming demand. How in the wide, wide world of sports do you think this happened?!? Yep, the aapa has been sitting on its hands for 40+ plus years.... . a lot of this is in spite of the aapa....the state and specialty societies do most of the heavy lifting responsible for state legislative changes. I will grant you that the aapa has had significant success when lobbying for federal changes. I think the aapa of the last 5 yrs has been more responsive than the prior 20 years and I do remain a member( Dfaapa in fact). see this thread from today for yet another story about how "assistant" confuses people: http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/forums/showthread.php/33161-Changed-PA-Job-ad-to-include-PA-NP-and-received-interesting-results..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemegroup Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Explain to me how changing assistant to associate will change this reality? That wasn't the point, and you know it. The point was that they found it hard to believe someone could not be asked what a PA is in 12 years. If you're addressing the different point of Assistant versus Associate, I would recommend utilizing the Dictionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delco714 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Often said at the end of the visit AFTER I just prescribed them medication. :saddd: also makes me very sad :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 That wasn't the point, and you know it. The point was that they found it hard to believe someone could not be asked what a PA is in 12 years. If you're addressing the different point of Assistant versus Associate, I would recommend utilizing the Dictionary. I'm well versed in the English language. And I again ask the question, how will changing assistant to associate change patient's ignorance as what a PA is and what is their role in the health care system? It was a question aimed squarely at the intent of HopefulPA's post. That was precisely the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnpac Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 a lot of this is in spite of the aapa....the state and specialty societies do most of the heavy lifting responsible for state legislative changes. I will grant you that the aapa has had significant success when lobbying for federal changes. I think the aapa of the last 5 yrs has been more responsive than the prior 20 years and I do remain a member( Dfaapa in fact). The progress of the last 5 years has been built upon the work of the previous 35. You are entitled to your opinion and bias, but not your facts. State constituent organizations (COs) have been the focus of formal AAPA organizational development efforts for 20 years, knowing that the AAPA is only as strong as its constituent parts. The AAPA has staffers like PA Ann Davis and Liz Roe, who criss cross the country endlessly assisting COs with legislation and lobbying, and with cash grants to help the smaller states. They work full time with support staff doing nothing but state legislative affairs, full time. Specialty organizations do help, but mainly through the state organizations as they are national in nature, and not organized around jurisdictions like states. I was on the California GAC at the time we pushed and won prescribing, and know for a fact that we would have failed without the expertise, resources and quick thinking of Ann Davis at the critical moments. There are staffers like Michael Powe, the leading expert on PA reimbursement in the nation, working for the past two decades making sure we all get paid, and that all barriers to PA reimbursement are eliminated. He also criss crosses the country working with COs on reimbursement issues. Don't forget long time federal affairs staffers like Sandy Harding, who's years of toil and hard work on the Hill resulted in near complete success in the AAPA's 10 year legislative agenda in 2010. I greatly appreciate that you are a member and a DFAAPA, as am I. Let's not forget the PAs and members who write the letters and lobby their legislatures for positive change in the profession at the state and national level. The difference has not been made in a vacuum; but together as a team. Give the AAPA its due and at least partial credit for our successes. They have certainly earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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