Just Steve Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I have a hard time believing that the work schedule is not equitable on each side of the proverbial fence. For every skating doc who strolls in and out on their own time table, I can point to an equal number of PAs who keep similar hours (albeit, far less money). Yes, there are PA jobs out there where u can work 30-35 hours a week with no call. You won't make 6 figures a year but you can probably keep Mac and Cheese in the bowl with a roof over your head. I can also point to an equal number of PAs and docs who have their nose to the grind stone putting their heart and soul into medicine. If you want to get away from the cheese and find a niche where patients be unbearably grateful for any sort of medicine you provide for them and be far removed from the notions of entitlement, I would suggest you finish your MD and look overseas to developing nations for a place to practice. Doing time in some bush clinic seeing patients who walked miles to seek care for a nearly debilitating situation will put your medical training to test, and to good use. PAs don't get that same sort of opportunity. You can do anything for a short period of time. No one is shooting at you, there is not a high likelyhood you'll drive over an IED on your way to and from school, the chance of a car bomb going off at the market while you are picking up your evening meal is pretty damn low. All you gotta do is study a bit, put up with the bull that is around you for a relatively short period of time, and then get out on your own and practice medicine as you state you want to. PA school is no guarantee that you won't have to deal with cheesy poofs and silly political games. As a PA..getting out from under the games is not any easier. Someone, somewhere, always has their eye on you. It's simply a matter of finding that "eye" that is looking out for your well being verses looking out to catch you messing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradtPA Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Also, bradtpa ... an internist working 8-2? None of the internists I've seen get to go home that early. They get to go home that early, because me and my PA counterpart work the late afternoon instead of them, and people like me brought in over $500,000 in collections to give them a hefty payday at the end of the year in profits to the practice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayla2013 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 just some food for thought, my physiology teacher (who is really a genius IMO) dropped out of med school in her 4th (maybe 3rd) year because she decided she didnt like getting puked on for a living (thats oversimplifying it though) she just got her phd and teaches for a living. i have no idea what she did with the debt or why she didnt figure it out sooner she doesnt like clinical medicine (probably her age, i think she was 24 by the time she got her phd) but she seems to enjoy her life and have no regrets. you sound like me but in a more expensive situation. i am TIRED of going to school and studying this crap (chemistry in particular) but i know its a means to an end and has to be done. if i quit now its time wasted i wont get back, and im that much farther from my goal. if youre not passionate about it you wont do well (pass) and you wont become a doc anyway. if you think its just a phase (it does suck that friends get to go out and have all this fun while your hitting the books and in class but youre 'suffering' to have that fun later.) then just make the most of your time off and get back to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 3, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 3, 2011 FWIW pa's in my group work 18 ten hr shifts/mo, docs work 12-14 eights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 3, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 3, 2011 and the docs make more than the pas. 3x as much for 2/3 the hrs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omppu27 Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 It sounds like a lot of people in this thread are complaining/regreting becoming a PA in the first place (which i'm sure isn't true, but just seems like it). How come you guys choose to be PA's instead? I'm a pre-PA (19 years old, sophomore in college) and am still figuring out which path is right for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 It sounds like a lot of people in this thread are complaining/regreting becoming a PA in the first place (which i'm sure isn't true, but just seems like it). Nahh... What you are reading is folks being honest about the real deal of the field. Back when may of us became PAs... there was no internet website that a wanna-be could go to for free 24hrs a day to get straight-up, un-adultrated, real-deal, non-sugar coated info about what it has been, or may be like for PAs practicing medicine across this nation. Back them... most PA practiced in relative professional isolation from fellow PAs. Many entered this field without a clue to the "poli-tricks" concerning NPs, MDs/DOs. There was nowhere to go to get a pre-glimpse of the too often encountered pathological attitudes of malignant physicians and administrators. So no... I don't see it as 'complaining/regreting becoming a PA in the first place' but more of clear and candid warning and dispelling of common myths and misconceptions about the profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted September 5, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 5, 2011 If I had to do it over I would have become a DO then done a dual EM/FP residency program. PA has been good for me but DO would have been better. it's not about the money, it's about the scope of practice and respect and opportunities to do things like doctors without borders, work(anywhere) overseas, etc I know there are "work arounds" for a lot of these things but there shouldn't have to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Savage Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) You can always hope to have a positive experience as a PA. If you have earned it, you should be treated with respect and credit just like any other healthcare team member. What I have seen from the providers and people that do not treat PA's with respect is that they generally do not treat anyone with respect. They also demand respect just because they are the "Doctor" or the "Fill in the blank" person and they lack the concept that even "Doctors" and professionals must earn professional respect. I debated going to Med school and still do sometimes, I asked the people who I respected for their opinions and they told me it was a good career and that I would be valued and respected... but that was within that small pocket of people who wanted to support and respect me and try to nurture my career choice. They offered me a Job and said they would be very happy if I came to work with them. This was my past employer that I have worked at the last 4 years. I busted my butt off everyday at work and never let myself make the lazy choice and tried to treat everyone with professional respect, even when they did not earn or deserve it. I have had my battles... charge nurse yelling at me about why I am doing what the manager says and not what she is saying... ward clerk chewing me out for not bringing her the chart right away before I drop the patient off in the room. Nurse yelling at me about why her med sheets are not done while I am answering the phone, paging people, looking up numbers for the doctor, talking to ultrasound about how I ordered the wrong test while I have just admitted three patients back to back, and oh yeah and not to mention trying to watch the telemetry monitors. When I would do patient care I would go from code brown to code brown for hours at a time on some days, then stop and ask if anyone needs anything before I try to squeeze lunch in. (Another Code brown... why did I ask... because I know it is the right thing) I never lost my cool, I never let it get to me, I always returned professional respect and when I thought something was wrong I took it straight to the person, never behind their back, or straight to management (unless it had to be that way). I earned the respect of everyone in the Hospital from the CEO's, Docs, Nurses all the way down to the Environmental Service Workers... as a lowly tech. So to be happy as a PA and to be respected as a PA I may have to do that all over again... Everyone has to... the only difference is for Doctors... you have to follow their orders if you do not want to loose your job... you have to feign professional respect and courtesy because they are on the top and are use to it, and they get huffy with those that do not. But to truly earn respect is hard work, and some people it is way harder to earn from because they have a chip on their shoulder or personal bias. That does not mean I will ever stop trying to earn it... If you get with a good group of people around you( Docs, nurses, MA's Techs etc.) and you work hard and earn their respect, I think you could be as happy as you want... PA/NP or Doc Edited September 6, 2011 by redonems80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted September 5, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 5, 2011 hang in there honestly you are through the hardest part once you pass step 1 (or so doc friends tell me) you will have SO MANY more doors open to you as an MD/DO Pick a short residency (medicine or Occ Health or Physiatry) and in 5 years (2 more school/3 residency)you are a full fledged doc and will make 100+ per year even with a part time gig and full time will be in the 150-200k mark pretty easily - this leaves A LOT of time for life outside of work. Honestly I think you will likely be a great doc as you do not have your head in the wrong place (once you get out of training) as you have seen and experienced both sides! You will be able to work 1/3 the time of a PA and make more $$ to allow you to do more outside of work you are likely just "in the mill" right now and they are trying to weed out the people that can't cut it for the high paying residency ie ortho and radiolgy - heck you don't want those anyways so go back to enjoy learning, learn what is interesting (after passing step 1) and figure out what area of medicine you want to have a "hobby" in and get 100k peer year..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted September 5, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 5, 2011 If I had to do it over I would have become a DO then done a dual EM/FP residency program. PA has been good for me but DO would have been better. it's not about the money, it's about the scope of practice and respect and opportunities to do things like doctors without borders, work(anywhere) overseas, etcI know there are "work arounds" for a lot of these things but there shouldn't have to be. this is so very true - for a few more years of school you have 2-3 times the income with literally every door open that you could want..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happiness Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I think all the people who are recommending you keep going are just projecting their own regrets onto your own situation. Not to mention, missing the point entirely. You dislike medicine. Don't waste the next 5 years of your life training to practice it. Don't waste another minute, if you can. The hospitals of America are littered with doctors who stuck with it because they felt they could not possibly turn back now that they'd "come so far, I'm already in third year!!" and they are absolutely MISERABLE. Figure out what you enjoy and DO it. If that's still medicine, don't be ashamed to leave and enter a PA program. 2 years is shorter than 5, believe it or not...and PA job satisfaction surveys continually blow MD job satisfaction surveys out of the water, no matter what the naysayers in this thread may say. This is how it is: It doesn't matter if the MD will allow you to be a "medical director of a suboxone clinic" if you hate what you do. It doesn't matter if you make $10000 a month if you hate what you do. They don't put your bank statement on your tombstone. It doesn't matter how SHORT a degree for a job is if you hate the job. It doesn't matter how many doors a degree opens if none of those doors are what you envision yourself walking through. There are options for paying your loans back on a small salary. For instance, income-based repayment. Don't allow yourself to think you are trapped and you HAVE to continue, and don't let people who regret becoming PAs instead of MDs talk you into continuing when there are just as many MDs that regret not becoming PAs...or anything in the world besides an MD. This is your life...and you're not going to get the time back when you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paprospect24 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I think all the people who are recommending you keep going are just projecting their own regrets onto your own situation. Not to mention, missing the point entirely. You dislike medicine. Don't waste the next 5 years of your life training to practice it. Don't waste another minute, if you can. The hospitals of America are littered with doctors who stuck with it because they felt they could not possibly turn back now that they'd "come so far, I'm already in third year!!" and they are absolutely MISERABLE. Figure out what you enjoy and DO it. If that's still medicine, don't be ashamed to leave and enter a PA program. 2 years is shorter than 5, believe it or not...and PA job satisfaction surveys continually blow MD job satisfaction surveys out of the water, no matter what the naysayers in this thread may say. This is how it is: It doesn't matter if the MD will allow you to be a "medical director of a suboxone clinic" if you hate what you do. It doesn't matter if you make $10000 a month if you hate what you do. They don't put your bank statement on your tombstone. It doesn't matter how SHORT a degree for a job is if you hate the job. It doesn't matter how many doors a degree opens if none of those doors are what you envision yourself walking through. There are options for paying your loans back on a small salary. For instance, income-based repayment. Don't allow yourself to think you are trapped and you HAVE to continue, and don't let people who regret becoming PAs instead of MDs talk you into continuing when there are just as many MDs that regret not becoming PAs...or anything in the world besides an MD. This is your life...and you're not going to get the time back when you're done. strongly agree with the bold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I think all the people who are recommending you keep going are just projecting their own regrets onto your own situation. Not to mention, missing the point entirely. You dislike medicine... Oh Great "Carnac the Magnificent"... The same could be said for your assertions ... The OP asked for the opinions of the forum members here... NOT your esteemed and learned opinion of the motivations of the posts of the forum members here. Give it a rest. The OP has questions and some preconcieved notions about the nature of PA practice that really, only practicing, experienced PAs can answer without the responses being pure conjecture. We get it... you decided that PA was for you... GREAT...!!! So did may of us who are actually PA-Cs. The difference YOU seem to not under/overstand is that after actually practicing as a PA-C for over a decade... in several divergent practice settings, and seeing some of the same deficiencies/attitudes... give one a learned perspective. It is this perspective that is being honestly shared with all who read here. No sugar-coating, No rose-colored-glasses, no adultrant, no mix... raw and straight up. Now if that collides with your pre-PA, "I chose PA over MD, rosey view of how its gonna be IF you do actually get accepted, complete a program, pass the PANCE and become a PA... too bad, so sad. To reiterate: The OP is contemplating making a potentially life altering decision that appears to be partly based upon some poorly founded notions and seems to be repeating some myths about PA practice that are being honestly dispelled by actual PA-Cs... In case you didn't know... YOU aren't one so REALLY have no idea. Now please have a very Pre-PA day... Contrarian Edited September 6, 2011 by Contrarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 PAMAC... The "problem" as I see it is NOT the assertion by "happiness" that the OP obviously needs to find the "tune she can dance to, in the key she can stand to hear it"... as I'm sure, like me, many of the folks who read here wholeheartedly agree with that idea. The "problem" is that "happiness" couldn't simply state that without prefacing this notion with a attack on several experienced, PA-Cs who have been long time posters and avid supporters of this profession. The problem is that she steps into this forum as a non-qualified interloper and in several different threads, basically "craps" on folks here who are or have been where she asserts she is headed. She has NO idea what its like to be a practicing Physician or a practicing PA... or a practicing nurse for that matter... but if you read her posts in several threads... one would think she whispered the initial idea/concept of PAs into Dr. Stead's ear one night after a game of snooker... So for clarity: I have NO issue with opposing viewpoints and opinions derived from qualifying info/experience. I DO have a issue with opposing viewpoints and opinions based upon idealistic notions that are not grounded in previous training, experience and reality (ground-truth). A pre-PA arguing with a Licensed Certified, experienced PA-C about the pros and cons of the practice of medicine AS a PA-C ... is akin to a high school varsity football player arguing with a NFL player what its like to play professional foolball... or a highschool ROTC cadet arguing with a NCO member of the 82nd Airbone about what its like to be active duty Military and jumping out of planes... or a medication aid arguing with a Registered Nurse about the nursing process, nursing care plans, NANDA, and what its like to practice as a licensed/registered nurse. That just doesn't fly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted September 6, 2011 Moderator Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) I think one point that is getting missed is "doors open for MD/DO" applying for other jobs? MD/DO is terminal world wide respected degree (and I am talking jobs outside of medicine) applying to strange jobs - MD is accepted world wide in medicine(PA is not yet anyways) restarting life as a "different person" the MD degree gains a lot more respect My anatomy teacher in PA school finished med school, never did a single day of clinical medicine, got a phd and now teaches as an MD/phd...... the program got absorbed by a med school and now he is faculty at a med school..... if he had not had an MD after his name I doubt he would have been invited to stay. Think of all the jobs in industry or social services that would simply LOVE to have an MD applicant - I did insurance adjusting prior to PA - an MD after your name would have held HUGE weight, how about hospital admin or social services agencies - huge benefit to having an MD to drop out of med school in 3rd year to do 2-3 years of PA school just makes no sense - sorry think of it this way...... (and their is a lot of x-military people that will vouch for this) you signed up for a 4 year hitch in and "medical school" of a make beleive service - you have much less worries then some 20 yr old over in the desert or sitting guard in the sand box - you got 2 years left (1/2 way through your hitch) you have not seen family and friends, hate your job, want out - but you buck up, work hard, peerform well, and in 2 more years you are done (well sort of, you would still have 4 years of inactive reserves) you are better off this this guy as you are not getting shot at and life is not in danger - yes you will have some sizeable loans, but paying back based on income is a possible, or just find some way out fun job to do and love life... although I have not gone through medical school I can say if you have not seen or been presented the "very well paid lazy doctor life" you are indeed missing some things. I work for exaclty 1/2 the pay then my office mate, put in 20-30% more hours, generate about 60k more per year in receipts, see 2-3 times the number of patients, stay later, and yet due to the MD after their name their pay is 200% of mine. Course this is full time work. But I have done a per diem job that a monkey could do and the doc's get between 150 and 200 per hour - you could "work" one day per week and be making 50k per year.... Maybe look into the USPHS career posting list (I am on this and it is just signing up via email) as you get postings for all health professions from around the country - many of these jobs are medical but I imagine a fair amount don't require you to see patientss (granted they are probably policy based jobs...) but they are only open to MD/DO and would have loan repayment to get you out of hock..... do 4 years and be debt free and have some corporate experience Edited September 6, 2011 by ventana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primadonna22274 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Lots of truth spoken here. Let me just say it frankly: if you already owe $150k for 2 yr of med school (and I presume undergrad), you CANNOT AFFORD to drop out and switch to PA. There is NOT enough fin aid $$ left to fund this plan EXCEPT to finish a doctoral degree. Loan limits are already near-maxed for graduate education and you will have no way to fund this silly plan. In my educated opinion as a PA-C for 11 yr and now a DO student, your advisor gave you rotten advice. It's time for you to get some therapy. You can't change your parents but you can choose with whom you will spend your time, how you will spend your time, how you will best enjoy YOUR life. Take advantage of this much-needed break and get your head on straight. Review, re-read, do a board review course, get a tutor, and do better on that test. It won't get easier but it will be over sooner than later. Or get out of medicine entirely and find something else that fulfills you--but that debt will haunt you. Student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy and will follow you until you die or have a permanent disability--neither of which I recommend ;) There are very few careers that will supply the necessary income to pay off that kind of debt. I am scratching my head trying to figure out how you could get this far down a path to a PROFESSION when all you want is a JOB. You didn't have to go to college to get a job. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanandGene Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I know you were looking for these types of stories - so here is one. I have a friend who is a first year student at a PA school here in NY who dropped out of med school in the Caribbean after one year. Now that I think about it, she might have left after a semester, not a year. Either way, she wasnt as far along as you are. Good luck with your decision, I think that many good points have been made in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Savage Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 One of my classmates went to Med school in England for 2 years and got here to the U.S. to start her MS3 and 4... well they pulled her financial aid one week prior to clinicals. She was devastated. She worked so hard and she tried every loan there was possible. Her parents offered to sell their house, but even then it would not cover her tuition. I am not sure about the details but she said the first two years was hell and she wanted to quit so bad during Biochemistry... but she toughed it out. Well she got a job as a dialysis tech and tried to put her life back together. She finally got back on her feet but by that time she got enough funds and established some credit for loans they said she would have to start all over. To second what Ventana said I was a Army Medic for 4 years and did two deployments... on my last deployment were were extended indefinitely. When I signed up it was during a time of war... everyone said "NO don't do it, they will send you to WAR!" and my response was always... that is exactly what I expect them to do and why I want to join in the first place. I could have quit... I could have thrown down my rifle and said "No more!" We had a few soldiers do that. They got into a lot of trouble, mind you the penalty for desertion during a time of war is death, but they did not do that. They did lose all their benefits, pay, free time, and got dishonorable discharges... It did not seem worth it. I hung in there and now I have lots of respect, benefits and honor. They faced a lot of consequences after they had came so far, survived so long and they threw it all away at the last minute. They are cowards, traitors, losers, Crap bags, but they did serve a long time at war, they joined up and made it through all of their training...then went to war, and right at the ten yard line they threw the ball down and started crying like big babies... You are over half done... go for the inzone. You do not have to do residency, but if at least you finish the MD, then maybe you could get a job in research or for a pharm company or even a malpractice consultant and pay back some of the mountainous debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplicity Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Tough it out bro! Most people would rather be in your shoes! You were given an opportunity, chosen from thousands, and it would be a significant disappointment to quit at this stage!! Your destination is nigh...have faith! Life is a journey of many routes, each of us must make the journey on our own, doing whatever it takes to reach the destination! You are on your journey of self-discovery, as am I. I'll let you know when I reach my destination, as should you! Trust yourself and the divine, waver and you shall falter. I believe you have it in you to make it through this storm! GODSPEED and GOOD LUCK!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadliftyourspirits Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 If I'm lucky, I get some time to work on some outside-of-med-school projects such as programming a computer game. And I'm doing all this while my friends are able to have fun every day after work (based on what their facebook statuses say and what they tell me when I do get a chance to talk to them). All this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I figured that I had two options: stay miserable for the rest of my life while being a doctor. Or get out now and find something that I can actually be happy doing. -Tough the 3rd year out and you can hang out with your friends and accomplish your pet projects thereafter. As EMEDPA said the 4th year is a lot of fluff (my cousin went out drinking 4-5 nights a week during his 4th year). -Many reliable authorities on this thread have stated that you can somewhat easily find a job where you don't work insane hours and still make bank. You said you don't care about the $$$ but I would imagine a high rate/low hour job (MD) would be more appealing to you than a moderate rate/high hour job (PA). -You go the the gym so I'm sure you've heard the expression "short term pain, long term gain". You're miserable now and many signs are pointing to the exit but IMHO, if I were you, I would try my best to endure a year of misery for a remaining lifetime of smooth sailing (figuratively and literally) in a heartbeat...because I know I would regret it down the line if I didn't. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happiness Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Oh Great "Carnac the Magnificent"...The same could be said for your assertions ... The OP asked for the opinions of the forum members here... NOT your esteemed and learned opinion of the motivations of the posts of the forum members here. Give it a rest. The OP has questions and some preconcieved notions about the nature of PA practice that really, only practicing, experienced PAs can answer without the responses being pure conjecture. We get it... you decided that PA was for you... GREAT...!!! So did may of us who are actually PA-Cs. The difference YOU seem to not under/overstand is that after actually practicing as a PA-C for over a decade... in several divergent practice settings, and seeing some of the same deficiencies/attitudes... give one a learned perspective. It is this perspective that is being honestly shared with all who read here. No sugar-coating, No rose-colored-glasses, no adultrant, no mix... raw and straight up. Now if that collides with your pre-PA, "I chose PA over MD, rosey view of how its gonna be IF you do actually get accepted, complete a program, pass the PANCE and become a PA... too bad, so sad. To reiterate: The OP is contemplating making a potentially life altering decision that appears to be partly based upon some poorly founded notions and seems to be repeating some myths about PA practice that are being honestly dispelled by actual PA-Cs... In case you didn't know... YOU aren't one so REALLY have no idea. Now please have a very Pre-PA day... Contrarian Oh, dear Contrarian, so willing to get upset at strangers on the internet over nothing. Perhaps a little more happiness would do you some good. Maybe take a vacation, or have a drink, or just pause for a second before deciding to run your mouth off at someone you know 0% about. As it happens, while I have never dropped out of medical school, I did choose to leave an entirely unappealing, boring, but financially rewarding path for something entirely different...and I'm very glad I did. You know, being a pre-PA doesn't mean I'm an 18 year old college freshman. You DO realize that, right? I've lived enough years to know that it doesn't matter how much you make if you hate what you do. I am grateful every day for my life, even though I'm living off $600 a month, and I wouldn't waste a second of it doing something that didn't mean anything to me (let alone FIVE YEARS, which is what it will take the OP to finally be a full-fledged MD)...a brush with death will do that to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 Oh, dear hapiness... Nothing you wrote in that last post is relevent to the fact that you obviously have NO idea what you are talking/writing about here. 1.) The typical medstudent becomes a "full-fledged MD" after 4 yrs of medical school. That degree (medical doctorate) is awarded prior to internship and residency. So if I read correctly, the OP is in yr 2 or 3 of medschool. Where you get the 5 yr number... who knows. Now if the OP wants to practice independently, she needs to at the very least complete a internship and at the most, the shortest residency... which is 3 yrs. If the OP does not want to practice independently... she doesn't need to do a internship and/or residency. The MD degree is awarded after the 4 yrs of medschool and is not contingent upon attending residency. So the OP should recieve her MD in about 1.5 yrs from where I understand her to be now. 2.) With a MD degree... without internship and/or residency, the OP will have limited clinical options, but will have a myriad of other healthcare/teaching/administrative/research/sales/insurance/business/legal options. The MD degree will open doors that simply aren't available to PAs or NPs. Many of these options will provide loan repayment as a incentive. Even if the OP decides that she does want to practice clinically, she can apply for residency later since she already has the MD degree. 3.) I'm well aware that being a pre-PA doesn't necessarily mean that you are some 18yr old college freshmen. Thing is... regardless of how old you are... or how much life experience you claim to have... YOU are speaking to something you know not. YOU are not a PA, Physician, RN, LPN, EMT-P, etc... you have no idea what its like to be any of those things, but don't seem to hesitate giving advice about them. The OP is contemplating making a potentially life altering decision that appears to be partly based upon some poorly founded notions and seems to be repeating some myths about PA practice that are being honestly dispelled by actual PA-Cs... In case you didn't know... YOU aren't a actual PA or Physician so you REALLY have no idea. The OP has questions and some preconcieved notions about the nature of PA practice that really, only practicing, experienced PAs can answer without the responses being pure conjecture. 4.) If you would have read more and posted less... you would see that the OP is decompensating emotionally and needs some help/counseling/therapy. You may have even considered that quitting a 4 yr program in the 3rd yr ... to begin a different 3yr program (interview-didactic-clinical) doing the exact same thing (clinical medicine) is irrational and a cry for help. You may have even seen that the OP has only been exposed to the overworked, burnt-out physicians who seem to have made clinical medicine the center of their lives, and that many here are trying to tell the OP that it doesn't HAVE to be that way. You may have gathered that the OP actually likes medicine, but doesn't want to be the prototypical physician working from 7a-8p 6 days a week and that we are trying to let her know that it doesn't have to be that way. 5.) "Brushes with Death"... pffft.... You aren't the only one. Some here have been in actual combat. Some have been in combat situations as PAs. A couple have even been shot, stabbed, etc... and fully appreciate the post-trauma tecnicolor clarity near death lends those that experience it. Thing is, the "mature" ones don't assume that the experience automatically grants them knowledge, wisdom and inderstanding about things they know not. As for the other stuff... taking a drink and getting upset with anonymous internet people... I don't do either. Anonymous strangers on the interwebs of the internet aren't worth the ATP that would be expended getting "upset." YOU are not important enough to me to invest/waste the emotional energy in/on. I simple have a low tolerance for "A$$hatery," am not a typist and therefore don't mince my words. So my responses should simply be taken as plain, straight-faced, ideas, notions and assertions delivered matter-a-factly. Contrarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirlyGirl Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 haha you my friend, are my new best friend!!! PM me!! we need to talk !!! Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I guess I will have to take the GRE at some point. I will be sure to investigate the credit transfer issue some more as I'd hate to have to retake anatomy. If anyone else can provide some answers, I'd really appreciate it. Also, I would love to hear from anyone is a former MD student or who knows someone who dropped out of medical school and subsequently headed to PA school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystaltide Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to throw in my two cents as well. I come from a similar background with the working part time jobs forever. Even now when I'm working full-time and taking classes on the side, I watch my friends who have "normal" jobs and no commitments when they get home and I want it SO BADLY. BUT I also know that there is an end to this. I will apply to and go through PA school and then I will at least be on par with them in being done with schooling. Yes, you will still have to work, but so will your friends. Sacrifice spending time with your friends now so that you'll have the time to spend with them later. Let's not forget that going to PA school you would be sacrificing the same amount of time with your friends as you are now for studying. If you don't care as much about making a ton of money, get a job for a while that will pay off your loans then get a cushy part-time gig. It IS possible (look into it a little more outside of your area, it seems like you're only seeing a subsect of the vast array of MD positions out there). In this kind of climate there is no way I would go to PA school with 2+ years of medical school debt on top of me. No way. Suck it up, sacrifice your time now, study for your Step 1, finish out your last two years. Your friends will be waiting for you when you finish. You were smart enough to get into medical school, you're smart enough to pass Step 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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