PAinMaryland Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 surfnturf, This happened to me recently too. I took mine the end of June and got a pretty low score. I have been practicing for 11 years and considered myself pretty knowledgeable. I felt that the exam was somewhat challenging but I didn't think I performed so bad. I contacted NCCPA and they relayed to me that the exam was graded by two different computer systems. I felt prepared for the exam but who knows what happened. I am debating as to what other sources to use to prepare for my second go. It would be interesting to see if many more people have had a similar experience and maybe NCCPA will agree to look at the exams again and possibly regrade. take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAinMaryland Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 surfnturf, This happened to me recently too. I took mine the end of June and got a pretty low score. I have been practicing for 11 years and considered myself pretty knowledgeable. I felt that the exam was somewhat challenging but I didn't think I performed so bad. I contacted NCCPA and they relayed to me that the exam was graded by two different computer systems. I felt prepared for the exam but who knows what happened. I am debating as to what other sources to use to prepare for my second go. It would be interesting to see if many more people have had a similar experience and maybe NCCPA will agree to look at the exams again and possibly regrade. take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhageremtp Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'm a bit dense sometimes, especially when the heat indices is over 106 degrees like today. Does this mean a state, Alabama for instance, you don't have to take the PANCE or PANRE? They have "-" marks at the appropriate location. On you list, I think my state NC, I believe is incorrect. They have the same "-" marks. Also what does * mean? This list was taken off the AAPA website, which they say is current as of 6-2011: http://aapa.org/images/stories/Advocacy-state-summaries/Current_Certification_6-11.pdf * = Requirement of current certification does not apply to PAs who submit proof that they were practicing as a PA in another jurisdiction while original license was inactive/expired ** = While current certification isn’t required for licensure, it is required for PAs who prescribe medications (in Washington, this requirement only applies to PAs working with osteopathic physicians who prescribe schedule II medications) ^ = If PA license has lapsed for three years or more, medical board may require examination as condition of recertification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhageremtp Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I'm a bit dense sometimes, especially when the heat indices is over 106 degrees like today. Does this mean a state, Alabama for instance, you don't have to take the PANCE or PANRE? They have "-" marks at the appropriate location. On you list, I think my state NC, I believe is incorrect. They have the same "-" marks. Also what does * mean? This list was taken off the AAPA website, which they say is current as of 6-2011: http://aapa.org/images/stories/Advocacy-state-summaries/Current_Certification_6-11.pdf * = Requirement of current certification does not apply to PAs who submit proof that they were practicing as a PA in another jurisdiction while original license was inactive/expired ** = While current certification isn’t required for licensure, it is required for PAs who prescribe medications (in Washington, this requirement only applies to PAs working with osteopathic physicians who prescribe schedule II medications) ^ = If PA license has lapsed for three years or more, medical board may require examination as condition of recertification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Okay, you guys are freaking me out a bit, as if I don't have enough to worry about right now. I feel terrible for those of you who took the test, studied hard, and failed. I've been a subspeciality for most of my career, taken the sit down test twice and the take home once (or twice?) and have done fine. I've never studied or taken a review course. So here are you bright people, who have studied and failed . . . scary as I have my first attempt in a few weeks. I feel horribly for you folks who seemed to have been screwed. I know that I never got responses from the NCCPA after I failed the neurology section, the area I've spent most of my career in. The questions (and answers) were not just 2-3 years old, but 2-3 decades old and I protested, but no response. If there are enough of you, and the NCCPA won't look into it, there is enough at stake to warrant a legal advice for approaches. So, for someone who historically never studies, I think I should. How should I study? Any books you recommend? If I don't pass the first attempt, I will take the Seattle course in Jan and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Okay, you guys are freaking me out a bit, as if I don't have enough to worry about right now. I feel terrible for those of you who took the test, studied hard, and failed. I've been a subspeciality for most of my career, taken the sit down test twice and the take home once (or twice?) and have done fine. I've never studied or taken a review course. So here are you bright people, who have studied and failed . . . scary as I have my first attempt in a few weeks. I feel horribly for you folks who seemed to have been screwed. I know that I never got responses from the NCCPA after I failed the neurology section, the area I've spent most of my career in. The questions (and answers) were not just 2-3 years old, but 2-3 decades old and I protested, but no response. If there are enough of you, and the NCCPA won't look into it, there is enough at stake to warrant a legal advice for approaches. So, for someone who historically never studies, I think I should. How should I study? Any books you recommend? If I don't pass the first attempt, I will take the Seattle course in Jan and try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgatus Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Apparently studying is what doomed everyone. Avoid at all costs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgatus Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Apparently studying is what doomed everyone. Avoid at all costs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah Mike... Without that "C"... your Physician "sponsor" becomes a "supervisor" and chart review becomes required/mandatory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah Mike... Without that "C"... your Physician "sponsor" becomes a "supervisor" and chart review becomes required/mandatory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah Mike...Without that "C"... your Physician "sponsor" becomes a "supervisor" and chart review becomes required/mandatory... I know. Without the C, I'm doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmj11 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yeah Mike...Without that "C"... your Physician "sponsor" becomes a "supervisor" and chart review becomes required/mandatory... I know. Without the C, I'm doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfnturf Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Simkin,Tinkfan, PAMaryland and other who have recieved an email response from Richard Carr. It sounds like a form letter. It did not address any of my questions and he talks about the PANCE not the PANRE. Does yours look like this? My apologies for not sending this sooner. I fully understand your confusion as to why your scale score is lower yet you have a percent score as you calculated it to be higher than before. There are few reasons why you see this score this time. First, each test form for PANCE is built to match our blueprint as you have seen online and in your feedback you have received for each test form. The larger categories count for more on the overall test. Each test form is also built to be similar in statistical criteria so that the overall test form difficulty is nearly the same. If your test was a little easier or a little harder we would statistically adjust for that so it was fair. For example, if the passing standard was set on a test form that had an average difficulty of say 70% (for the base form) for argument sake, and your test form had an average difficulty of 68% we would "equate" or essentially credit you 2% for having a test form that was slightly more difficult. So if the passing standard was 70% set on the base test form and you got a 68% on your test form we would equate that to a 70% and it would be a pass. Again, this is for illustration purposes only and NOT the average test difficulties for PANCE. We do not publish that information. So, to take this a step further, if you had an easier test form, having more items correct would be "equated" back to the base form so that a 51% might be more like a 49%. Again, this is for illustration purpose and NOT specific for your PANCE examination as we do NOT give out this information. At the same time we do the equating of the various test forms we also then apply a conversion of the raw percent correct score to a scale score for reporting. This scale score and the passing standards are not set in stone. Over the past 30 years the NCCPA board deliberates over a lot of information for the candidates and how much content they should know to pass. Every few years the passing standard is reviewed and approved. The general trend has been a very slight increase over time in the amount of information required to pass PANCE. The main reasons for this is based on the increased quality of the candidates themselves going into PA school, the increased duties and responsibilities for clinical PA's, and the quality of PA education and training programs. While this explanation may not make you feel any better about your score I hope I have provided you with an understanding of your scores. I am unfortunately not able to give you any other specifics about the scoring although I can tell you that your test has been scored twice by two independent systems and your score is accurate. Please give me a call or email if you have any other questions. Sincerely, Richard Carr Exam Coordinator 12000 Findley Road, Ste. 100 Johns Creek, GA 30097-1409 678-417-8141 678-417-8135 fax Email: richardc@nccpa.net Something fishy is going on. If you think your test was scored wrong please contact NCCPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfnturf Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Simkin,Tinkfan, PAMaryland and other who have recieved an email response from Richard Carr. It sounds like a form letter. It did not address any of my questions and he talks about the PANCE not the PANRE. Does yours look like this? My apologies for not sending this sooner. I fully understand your confusion as to why your scale score is lower yet you have a percent score as you calculated it to be higher than before. There are few reasons why you see this score this time. First, each test form for PANCE is built to match our blueprint as you have seen online and in your feedback you have received for each test form. The larger categories count for more on the overall test. Each test form is also built to be similar in statistical criteria so that the overall test form difficulty is nearly the same. If your test was a little easier or a little harder we would statistically adjust for that so it was fair. For example, if the passing standard was set on a test form that had an average difficulty of say 70% (for the base form) for argument sake, and your test form had an average difficulty of 68% we would "equate" or essentially credit you 2% for having a test form that was slightly more difficult. So if the passing standard was 70% set on the base test form and you got a 68% on your test form we would equate that to a 70% and it would be a pass. Again, this is for illustration purposes only and NOT the average test difficulties for PANCE. We do not publish that information. So, to take this a step further, if you had an easier test form, having more items correct would be "equated" back to the base form so that a 51% might be more like a 49%. Again, this is for illustration purpose and NOT specific for your PANCE examination as we do NOT give out this information. At the same time we do the equating of the various test forms we also then apply a conversion of the raw percent correct score to a scale score for reporting. This scale score and the passing standards are not set in stone. Over the past 30 years the NCCPA board deliberates over a lot of information for the candidates and how much content they should know to pass. Every few years the passing standard is reviewed and approved. The general trend has been a very slight increase over time in the amount of information required to pass PANCE. The main reasons for this is based on the increased quality of the candidates themselves going into PA school, the increased duties and responsibilities for clinical PA's, and the quality of PA education and training programs. While this explanation may not make you feel any better about your score I hope I have provided you with an understanding of your scores. I am unfortunately not able to give you any other specifics about the scoring although I can tell you that your test has been scored twice by two independent systems and your score is accurate. Please give me a call or email if you have any other questions. Sincerely, Richard Carr Exam Coordinator 12000 Findley Road, Ste. 100 Johns Creek, GA 30097-1409 678-417-8141 678-417-8135 fax Email: richardc@nccpa.net Something fishy is going on. If you think your test was scored wrong please contact NCCPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfnturf Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, Richard responded to an email I sent him today. Here it is: My apologies, I thought I sent you this email but it was in my drafts section of my email. Here are the answers to your question. .Q: Was I given the correct exam? I checked and you were given the correct PANRE exam. Q: Was I given the entire exam? I check and you answered all 240 questions and were given the entire exam. As I mentioned before, I am unfortunately not able to give you any other specifics about the scoring although I can tell you that your test has been scored twice by two independent systems and your score is accurate. Sincerely, Richard Carr Exam Coordinator 12000 Findley Road, Ste. 100 Johns Creek, GA 30097-1409 678-417-8141 678-417-8135 fax Email: richardc@nccpa.net As I expected, Not much Love here. I asked if the correct score key was used as a follow up questions and informed him that several others have similar situations. I guess I should be studying instead of fighting this thing because it looks like I will be retaking the exam when it all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfnturf Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, Richard responded to an email I sent him today. Here it is: My apologies, I thought I sent you this email but it was in my drafts section of my email. Here are the answers to your question. .Q: Was I given the correct exam? I checked and you were given the correct PANRE exam. Q: Was I given the entire exam? I check and you answered all 240 questions and were given the entire exam. As I mentioned before, I am unfortunately not able to give you any other specifics about the scoring although I can tell you that your test has been scored twice by two independent systems and your score is accurate. Sincerely, Richard Carr Exam Coordinator 12000 Findley Road, Ste. 100 Johns Creek, GA 30097-1409 678-417-8141 678-417-8135 fax Email: richardc@nccpa.net As I expected, Not much Love here. I asked if the correct score key was used as a follow up questions and informed him that several others have similar situations. I guess I should be studying instead of fighting this thing because it looks like I will be retaking the exam when it all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatcat Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I guess I should be studying instead of fighting this thing because it looks like I will be retaking the exam when it all over. I'm always sorry to hear about this happening to practicing PAs and can only imagine the nightmare of logistics in having to go through this stress for another round of testing. I took the PANRE last fall and found it to be one of the most challenging exams I have taken in my years as a PA-C. I was quite disappointed to discover that NCCPA no longer offers feedback that once was part of the exam results. "In the old days" we got a print out with not only our score for the various specialty areas but also feedback about content missed. Exam results would include content areas that were missed ie aortic valve disease,hydrocephalus etc. It was great feedback to areas of weakness and didn't jeopardize any of the security issues with specific question analysis. From an educational perspective, I also appreciated that I was taking an exam that supported meaningful feedback to allow for improvement. The current PANRE does very little to promote the continuum of learning through meaningful feedback. I really think that we all deserve a much more detailed report of our PANRE performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatcat Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I guess I should be studying instead of fighting this thing because it looks like I will be retaking the exam when it all over. I'm always sorry to hear about this happening to practicing PAs and can only imagine the nightmare of logistics in having to go through this stress for another round of testing. I took the PANRE last fall and found it to be one of the most challenging exams I have taken in my years as a PA-C. I was quite disappointed to discover that NCCPA no longer offers feedback that once was part of the exam results. "In the old days" we got a print out with not only our score for the various specialty areas but also feedback about content missed. Exam results would include content areas that were missed ie aortic valve disease,hydrocephalus etc. It was great feedback to areas of weakness and didn't jeopardize any of the security issues with specific question analysis. From an educational perspective, I also appreciated that I was taking an exam that supported meaningful feedback to allow for improvement. The current PANRE does very little to promote the continuum of learning through meaningful feedback. I really think that we all deserve a much more detailed report of our PANRE performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adorizas Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wow, I'm starting PA school this year and I have to say. If this is what I have to look forward to, well maybe I'm getting into the wrong profession... Tests that have material that is outdated? That's just nuts so they expect you to know the old with the new. I'm sure that would make patients feel warm and fuzzy... I agree with an earlier post, you folks need legal advise. You pay for this test that is run by this one entity so you have no options and it looks like it's very poorly regulated. Oh, I'm not just some kid starting school. This is a 3rd career for me after serving 8 years on Active Duty and another few as a government sales contractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adorizas Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wow, I'm starting PA school this year and I have to say. If this is what I have to look forward to, well maybe I'm getting into the wrong profession... Tests that have material that is outdated? That's just nuts so they expect you to know the old with the new. I'm sure that would make patients feel warm and fuzzy... I agree with an earlier post, you folks need legal advise. You pay for this test that is run by this one entity so you have no options and it looks like it's very poorly regulated. Oh, I'm not just some kid starting school. This is a 3rd career for me after serving 8 years on Active Duty and another few as a government sales contractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 23, 2011 Administrator Share Posted July 23, 2011 It's the same in any profession. Certification tests in almost any field rely on the state of the discipline no earlier than 2 years ago, and often more like 5, because it takes that long for new questions to be written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator rev ronin Posted July 23, 2011 Administrator Share Posted July 23, 2011 It's the same in any profession. Certification tests in almost any field rely on the state of the discipline no earlier than 2 years ago, and often more like 5, because it takes that long for new questions to be written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yep... Sort of like by the time you get that brand spankin new smartphone, computer/tablet, blu-ray player, flatscreen tv home and plugged in... it is outdated and a new one is being released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yep... Sort of like by the time you get that brand spankin new smartphone, computer/tablet, blu-ray player, flatscreen tv home and plugged in... it is outdated and a new one is being released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2305 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Do we still get the exam score with all the tested areas and scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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