d2305 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Do we still get the exam score with all the tested areas and scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASO Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 @surfnturf....this happened to me a few weeks ago! I was shocked when I failed with a 261. Wow, and I thought it was just me. I'm in Neurosurgery and have been practicing for more than 20 years. I recently took the PANRE (June 29th) and was floored when I got my score.... my first thought was this MUST be a mistake. I am in Neurosurgery but we also take trauma call. I first assist in surgery, take ER call, and have clinic patients. I too took the "surgery" focused exam and again, felt exactly the same! I felt as if there were NO questions related to surgery. However, when I walked away from the exam, while I knew I didn't get a perfect score, I was confident I passed. But when I got my score, to say I was shocked is an understatement. My score was 200!!! That's the lowest score there is? If I had failed the test, it would have been equally disappointing, but to get the lowest score possible... 200... I can't believe for a minute that is correct. I've gone the route of contacting NCCPA and have already put up my money to take the exam as well as taking a review course the week before the exam. I practice in CA where it is not required to have NCCPA certification, and frankly, I could care less. However, of the six hospitals I hold privileges at, one insists I maintain certification despite CA law. I am convinced there had to be some sort of error in scoring and there is NO possible way I got the lowest score possible. It was of some benefit to hear others have had the same problem recently and I do wish we could have some sort of recourse, but at this point I've concluded my only choice is to retake the exam. Wish the best of luck to you and if you hear of anything different, please post. James H. Kimber, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASO Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 @surfnturf....this happened to me a few weeks ago! I was shocked when I failed with a 261. Wow, and I thought it was just me. I'm in Neurosurgery and have been practicing for more than 20 years. I recently took the PANRE (June 29th) and was floored when I got my score.... my first thought was this MUST be a mistake. I am in Neurosurgery but we also take trauma call. I first assist in surgery, take ER call, and have clinic patients. I too took the "surgery" focused exam and again, felt exactly the same! I felt as if there were NO questions related to surgery. However, when I walked away from the exam, while I knew I didn't get a perfect score, I was confident I passed. But when I got my score, to say I was shocked is an understatement. My score was 200!!! That's the lowest score there is? If I had failed the test, it would have been equally disappointing, but to get the lowest score possible... 200... I can't believe for a minute that is correct. I've gone the route of contacting NCCPA and have already put up my money to take the exam as well as taking a review course the week before the exam. I practice in CA where it is not required to have NCCPA certification, and frankly, I could care less. However, of the six hospitals I hold privileges at, one insists I maintain certification despite CA law. I am convinced there had to be some sort of error in scoring and there is NO possible way I got the lowest score possible. It was of some benefit to hear others have had the same problem recently and I do wish we could have some sort of recourse, but at this point I've concluded my only choice is to retake the exam. Wish the best of luck to you and if you hear of anything different, please post. James H. Kimber, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainiac Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I am a new (few yrs) PA & haven't taken the PANRE yet. Compared to the PANCE what do you get for scores / info? Thx PS I feel sorry for all u that didn't pass. That blows. I hope that there is some problem that can be fixed for u all. All my best. I'm always sorry to hear about this happening to practicing PAs and can only imagine the nightmare of logistics in having to go through this stress for another round of testing. I took the PANRE last fall and found it to be one of the most challenging exams I have taken in my years as a PA-C. I was quite disappointed to discover that NCCPA no longer offers feedback that once was part of the exam results. "In the old days" we got a print out with not only our score for the various specialty areas but also feedback about content missed. Exam results would include content areas that were missed ie aortic valve disease,hydrocephalus etc. It was great feedback to areas of weakness and didn't jeopardize any of the security issues with specific question analysis. From an educational perspective, I also appreciated that I was taking an exam that supported meaningful feedback to allow for improvement. The current PANRE does very little to promote the continuum of learning through meaningful feedback. I really think that we all deserve a much more detailed report of our PANRE performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainiac Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I am a new (few yrs) PA & haven't taken the PANRE yet. Compared to the PANCE what do you get for scores / info? Thx PS I feel sorry for all u that didn't pass. That blows. I hope that there is some problem that can be fixed for u all. All my best. I'm always sorry to hear about this happening to practicing PAs and can only imagine the nightmare of logistics in having to go through this stress for another round of testing. I took the PANRE last fall and found it to be one of the most challenging exams I have taken in my years as a PA-C. I was quite disappointed to discover that NCCPA no longer offers feedback that once was part of the exam results. "In the old days" we got a print out with not only our score for the various specialty areas but also feedback about content missed. Exam results would include content areas that were missed ie aortic valve disease,hydrocephalus etc. It was great feedback to areas of weakness and didn't jeopardize any of the security issues with specific question analysis. From an educational perspective, I also appreciated that I was taking an exam that supported meaningful feedback to allow for improvement. The current PANRE does very little to promote the continuum of learning through meaningful feedback. I really think that we all deserve a much more detailed report of our PANRE performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainiac Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wow, and I thought it was just me. I'm in Neurosurgery and have been practicing for more than 20 years. I recently took the PANRE (June 29th) and was floored when I got my score.... my first thought was this MUST be a mistake. I am in Neurosurgery but we also take trauma call. I first assist in surgery, take ER call, and have clinic patients. I too took the "surgery" focused exam and again, felt exactly the same! I felt as if there were NO questions related to surgery. However, when I walked away from the exam, while I knew I didn't get a perfect score, I was confident I passed. But when I got my score, to say I was shocked is an understatement. My score was 200!!! That's the lowest score there is? If I had failed the test, it would have been equally disappointing, but to get the lowest score possible... 200... I can't believe for a minute that is correct. I've gone the route of contacting NCCPA and have already put up my money to take the exam as well as taking a review course the week before the exam. I practice in CA where it is not required to have NCCPA certification, and frankly, I could care less. However, of the six hospitals I hold privileges at, one insists I maintain certification despite CA law. I am convinced there had to be some sort of error in scoring and there is NO possible way I got the lowest score possible. It was of some benefit to hear others have had the same problem recently and I do wish we could have some sort of recourse, but at this point I've concluded my only choice is to retake the exam. Wish the best of luck to you and if you hear of anything different, please post. James H. Kimber, PA Are u taking the same "surgery" PANRE? Can u switch back to primary care exam? To all who failed since June 1 switch, how many of u took "surgery" exam? Since ur saying there were no surgery questions on it. I'm wondering why have a surgery exam? Confused.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mainiac Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Wow, and I thought it was just me. I'm in Neurosurgery and have been practicing for more than 20 years. I recently took the PANRE (June 29th) and was floored when I got my score.... my first thought was this MUST be a mistake. I am in Neurosurgery but we also take trauma call. I first assist in surgery, take ER call, and have clinic patients. I too took the "surgery" focused exam and again, felt exactly the same! I felt as if there were NO questions related to surgery. However, when I walked away from the exam, while I knew I didn't get a perfect score, I was confident I passed. But when I got my score, to say I was shocked is an understatement. My score was 200!!! That's the lowest score there is? If I had failed the test, it would have been equally disappointing, but to get the lowest score possible... 200... I can't believe for a minute that is correct. I've gone the route of contacting NCCPA and have already put up my money to take the exam as well as taking a review course the week before the exam. I practice in CA where it is not required to have NCCPA certification, and frankly, I could care less. However, of the six hospitals I hold privileges at, one insists I maintain certification despite CA law. I am convinced there had to be some sort of error in scoring and there is NO possible way I got the lowest score possible. It was of some benefit to hear others have had the same problem recently and I do wish we could have some sort of recourse, but at this point I've concluded my only choice is to retake the exam. Wish the best of luck to you and if you hear of anything different, please post. James H. Kimber, PA Are u taking the same "surgery" PANRE? Can u switch back to primary care exam? To all who failed since June 1 switch, how many of u took "surgery" exam? Since ur saying there were no surgery questions on it. I'm wondering why have a surgery exam? Confused.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgatus Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Wow, and I thought it was just me. I'm in Neurosurgery and have been practicing for more than 20 years. I recently took the PANRE (June 29th) and was floored when I got my score.... my first thought was this MUST be a mistake. I am in Neurosurgery but we also take trauma call. I first assist in surgery, take ER call, and have clinic patients. I too took the "surgery" focused exam and again, felt exactly the same! I felt as if there were NO questions related to surgery. However, when I walked away from the exam, while I knew I didn't get a perfect score, I was confident I passed. But when I got my score, to say I was shocked is an understatement. My score was 200!!! That's the lowest score there is? If I had failed the test, it would have been equally disappointing, but to get the lowest score possible... 200... I can't believe for a minute that is correct. I've gone the route of contacting NCCPA and have already put up my money to take the exam as well as taking a review course the week before the exam. I practice in CA where it is not required to have NCCPA certification, and frankly, I could care less. However, of the six hospitals I hold privileges at, one insists I maintain certification despite CA law. I am convinced there had to be some sort of error in scoring and there is NO possible way I got the lowest score possible. It was of some benefit to hear others have had the same problem recently and I do wish we could have some sort of recourse, but at this point I've concluded my only choice is to retake the exam. Wish the best of luck to you and if you hear of anything different, please post. James H. Kimber, PA It's hard to believe a PA practicing for over 20 years getting the lowest possible score... and that's WITH studying? Holy cow... Sounds like it's either a catastrophic error on their part or a money making scheme (I'm assuming you pay for each retake?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgatus Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Wow, and I thought it was just me. I'm in Neurosurgery and have been practicing for more than 20 years. I recently took the PANRE (June 29th) and was floored when I got my score.... my first thought was this MUST be a mistake. I am in Neurosurgery but we also take trauma call. I first assist in surgery, take ER call, and have clinic patients. I too took the "surgery" focused exam and again, felt exactly the same! I felt as if there were NO questions related to surgery. However, when I walked away from the exam, while I knew I didn't get a perfect score, I was confident I passed. But when I got my score, to say I was shocked is an understatement. My score was 200!!! That's the lowest score there is? If I had failed the test, it would have been equally disappointing, but to get the lowest score possible... 200... I can't believe for a minute that is correct. I've gone the route of contacting NCCPA and have already put up my money to take the exam as well as taking a review course the week before the exam. I practice in CA where it is not required to have NCCPA certification, and frankly, I could care less. However, of the six hospitals I hold privileges at, one insists I maintain certification despite CA law. I am convinced there had to be some sort of error in scoring and there is NO possible way I got the lowest score possible. It was of some benefit to hear others have had the same problem recently and I do wish we could have some sort of recourse, but at this point I've concluded my only choice is to retake the exam. Wish the best of luck to you and if you hear of anything different, please post. James H. Kimber, PA It's hard to believe a PA practicing for over 20 years getting the lowest possible score... and that's WITH studying? Holy cow... Sounds like it's either a catastrophic error on their part or a money making scheme (I'm assuming you pay for each retake?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Who or what determines an adequate level of competency for the re-certifying PA? A Bell curve, where a certain portion are doomed to failure no matter what the baseline knowledge level seems to be the standard of the NCCPA. The PANRE seems to have questions pulled from the same menu as the PANCE with both current and out dated questions mixed. Given the choices of a one “best” answer, the test taker who has an older knowledge base is at a real disadvantage. Some renaming of an existing disease with it’s associated new acronym or for example, the American Heart Association changes some little ditty about the number of chest compressions or the preferred drug for a code, how is a person suppose to know from which aged group of right answers to chose. Is there a watchdog over the NCCPA? If not, seems like it might be time for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Who or what determines an adequate level of competency for the re-certifying PA? A Bell curve, where a certain portion are doomed to failure no matter what the baseline knowledge level seems to be the standard of the NCCPA. The PANRE seems to have questions pulled from the same menu as the PANCE with both current and out dated questions mixed. Given the choices of a one “best” answer, the test taker who has an older knowledge base is at a real disadvantage. Some renaming of an existing disease with it’s associated new acronym or for example, the American Heart Association changes some little ditty about the number of chest compressions or the preferred drug for a code, how is a person suppose to know from which aged group of right answers to chose. Is there a watchdog over the NCCPA? If not, seems like it might be time for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 A letter from a lawyer goes a long way!!!! Nahh... Bet the NCCPA has a cadre of lawyers... and that they get letters regularly from folk who either aren't allowed to sit for the test or who have failed the PANCE/PANRE, or lost their certification for various reasons. Point: A simple letter from a individual lawyer may work for some small company or org, but means little to a large org. A "class action" may get some attention though... The folks thus far affected by this may want to start a Facebook group to gather strength and momentum and have a place to strategize on how to force the NCCPA to respond and maybe instill some transparancy and accountability or at the least a credible avenue for some recourse. YMMV Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 A letter from a lawyer goes a long way!!!! Nahh... Bet the NCCPA has a cadre of lawyers... and that they get letters regularly from folk who either aren't allowed to sit for the test or who have failed the PANCE/PANRE, or lost their certification for various reasons. Point: A simple letter from a individual lawyer may work for some small company or org, but means little to a large org. A "class action" may get some attention though... The folks thus far affected by this may want to start a Facebook group to gather strength and momentum and have a place to strategize on how to force the NCCPA to respond and maybe instill some transparancy and accountability or at the least a credible avenue for some recourse. YMMV Contrarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simkin Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Thanks Contrarian for your advice. The facebook idea is a good one as I bet it would throw out a wider net to reach other PAs that this has happened to. (I didn't even know this forum existed until I googled "failed PANRE" recently). Unfortunately I am not facebook savvy at all. Is there anyone out there that could help us get this started? I received the exact same letter that Surfnturf did from Richard Carr, word for word. I replied with an email asking him to clarify that I was given the correct exam and that all questions were answered (as you did) and was given the exact response you received. This tells me that they are receiving enough calls of concern that he has generated a form letter response that isn't even answering the personal email questions. In fact, his email was sloppy in that his copy and paste wasn't even in the same font as the rest of the email, making it so obvious that he did not type it out. The NCCPA is a separate entity from our profession and I am fairly sure there is no watchdog. I am also fairly sure that Richard Carr is not a PA. The NCCPA should be accountable to someone and that should be us, Physician Assistants as a collective group whose primary concern is to help each other stay competent and honest PAs. It is frightening that PAs may not have any recourse. Surely James, myself, Surfnturf, tinksfan, PAMaryland and others must be able to have some better recourse than a form letter. I would pay to have a hand re-scoring done if that's what it would take. I would also pay to see them prove to me that my test followed the blueprint and was indeed surgery-based. I, like the others will most likely have to retake this exam, however if someone could spearhead a facebook group we could likely gain numbers. If enough people come forward to challenge the exam we may have a shot. At the very least we can hopefully help out future PAs from going through this depressing nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simkin Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Thanks Contrarian for your advice. The facebook idea is a good one as I bet it would throw out a wider net to reach other PAs that this has happened to. (I didn't even know this forum existed until I googled "failed PANRE" recently). Unfortunately I am not facebook savvy at all. Is there anyone out there that could help us get this started? I received the exact same letter that Surfnturf did from Richard Carr, word for word. I replied with an email asking him to clarify that I was given the correct exam and that all questions were answered (as you did) and was given the exact response you received. This tells me that they are receiving enough calls of concern that he has generated a form letter response that isn't even answering the personal email questions. In fact, his email was sloppy in that his copy and paste wasn't even in the same font as the rest of the email, making it so obvious that he did not type it out. The NCCPA is a separate entity from our profession and I am fairly sure there is no watchdog. I am also fairly sure that Richard Carr is not a PA. The NCCPA should be accountable to someone and that should be us, Physician Assistants as a collective group whose primary concern is to help each other stay competent and honest PAs. It is frightening that PAs may not have any recourse. Surely James, myself, Surfnturf, tinksfan, PAMaryland and others must be able to have some better recourse than a form letter. I would pay to have a hand re-scoring done if that's what it would take. I would also pay to see them prove to me that my test followed the blueprint and was indeed surgery-based. I, like the others will most likely have to retake this exam, however if someone could spearhead a facebook group we could likely gain numbers. If enough people come forward to challenge the exam we may have a shot. At the very least we can hopefully help out future PAs from going through this depressing nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2011 seems like there should be some verification of the test groups always have more pull - should be some PA/JD that can write a letter for free - anyone out there??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted July 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2011 seems like there should be some verification of the test groups always have more pull - should be some PA/JD that can write a letter for free - anyone out there??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Maybe a letter to the NCCPA Board of Directors would light a fire under someone to at least look. What is beginning to rubmy fuzz the wrong way is Nurse Practitioners do NOT have to take a re-certification exam and it seems in some states have more autonomy that PAs. Skills are essentially the same, NPs just have a more active political group. My wife is a CRNA, a group smaller than PAs but have a larger, more active political group. She complains about having to pay $600.00+ dues to the AANA plus dues to nursing association+$100.00 to the state AANA but they are movers & shakers and get stuff done. Having an aggressive, politically active national organization will be key in coming years. A) The NCCPA needs to lighten up, get realistic and comparable to other mid-level practitioners. B) The future seems to be how to save money in medicine. We could be part of the solution or part of the problem, depending on tiptoeing between saving money for 3rd party payers, or making money for our employers. I never did hear way the NCCPA did away with the PATHWAY II way of re-certifying. Darn my luck, ended in June. A day late and dollar short, as said in the south. I use to work with Robert Wooten when we were both Paramedics. An article in a local paper said he is to be the new big cheese at AAPA. Maybe we could clue him to this before he gets tied up on something else. http://www.nccpa.net/board.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dm123 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Maybe a letter to the NCCPA Board of Directors would light a fire under someone to at least look. What is beginning to rubmy fuzz the wrong way is Nurse Practitioners do NOT have to take a re-certification exam and it seems in some states have more autonomy that PAs. Skills are essentially the same, NPs just have a more active political group. My wife is a CRNA, a group smaller than PAs but have a larger, more active political group. She complains about having to pay $600.00+ dues to the AANA plus dues to nursing association+$100.00 to the state AANA but they are movers & shakers and get stuff done. Having an aggressive, politically active national organization will be key in coming years. A) The NCCPA needs to lighten up, get realistic and comparable to other mid-level practitioners. B) The future seems to be how to save money in medicine. We could be part of the solution or part of the problem, depending on tiptoeing between saving money for 3rd party payers, or making money for our employers. I never did hear way the NCCPA did away with the PATHWAY II way of re-certifying. Darn my luck, ended in June. A day late and dollar short, as said in the south. I use to work with Robert Wooten when we were both Paramedics. An article in a local paper said he is to be the new big cheese at AAPA. Maybe we could clue him to this before he gets tied up on something else. http://www.nccpa.net/board.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 We need a "Manchurian Candidate"... a "sleeper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 We need a "Manchurian Candidate"... a "sleeper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapelirroja Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think there's something fishy going on.... a good friend of mine took PANCE in early June. Good student, awesome clinically with rave reviews from preceptors. Studied hard, took several practice tests and scored well on the NCCPA Practice Test, showed no indication that they were ever in any danger of coming CLOSE to failing. After taking the exam, felt fine and expected to pass with a good margin. When this person received their score they were 1 point below the cutoff. Unbelievable. Received nothing but rudeness from NCCPA when asking for score verification. I'm so glad I got my -C but I feel like there are a lot more failures than usual going on right now... hopefully they will resolve this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapelirroja Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think there's something fishy going on.... a good friend of mine took PANCE in early June. Good student, awesome clinically with rave reviews from preceptors. Studied hard, took several practice tests and scored well on the NCCPA Practice Test, showed no indication that they were ever in any danger of coming CLOSE to failing. After taking the exam, felt fine and expected to pass with a good margin. When this person received their score they were 1 point below the cutoff. Unbelievable. Received nothing but rudeness from NCCPA when asking for score verification. I'm so glad I got my -C but I feel like there are a lot more failures than usual going on right now... hopefully they will resolve this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatcat Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 "NCCPA needs to lighten up, get realistic and comparable to other mid-level practitioners." Seriously! I would bet that most NPs couldn't pass the PANRE~especially with all the new focus exams. After my recent PANRE I noted that the exam questions seemed to be intentionally challenging and certainly weren't as straight forward as they could have been. Do we really need to make this professional requirement so obscure & difficult.? I think not. There should be total tranparency with all aspects of the exam that includes meaningful feedback which is something that is currently lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatcat Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 "NCCPA needs to lighten up, get realistic and comparable to other mid-level practitioners." Seriously! I would bet that most NPs couldn't pass the PANRE~especially with all the new focus exams. After my recent PANRE I noted that the exam questions seemed to be intentionally challenging and certainly weren't as straight forward as they could have been. Do we really need to make this professional requirement so obscure & difficult.? I think not. There should be total tranparency with all aspects of the exam that includes meaningful feedback which is something that is currently lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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