amesch1 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 In short, I graduated 2 years ago in construction management and after a battle with cancer, I have decided to return to school so that I can work with cancer patients. Originally, I was dead set on doing it the MD way. I stumbled across the PA route when my girlfriend's friend mentioned that she was looking into it. When I read into it, I thought that is what I want to do and started forming my future class schedule to handle the pre-reqs and I took the GRE. The more I think about it though, I keep feeling in the back of my mind that I will regret not going the full distance. I'm going to be 25 in the fall and me and my girlfriend (future wife) have no kids and it will just be the two of us and she finishes grad school a year before I would start either. I've watched the videos with Sundance and I have shadowed both doctors and PAs but am still at crossing point. I have had two doctors encourage me to pursue med school because they say they see potential and doctor qualities in me in how I carry myself. Ultimately, I know I must decide for myself. If it was just me and I had no one, I would do the MD route. I know some will argue that that is how you should approach the decision anyway, but I can't be that selfish and not consider my future wife. She has told me that she is on board with whatever I decide and although the med school route will be tough, that she supports me. So I have teetered and tottered and I don't have to make any concrete decisions today, but I can't stand not having a definite plan. Based on what I have said, what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted July 20, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 20, 2015 looks like med school is what you want to do and you have the support to do it. people do have kids during med school and residency all the time. it can be done. for a subspecialty like oncology, you really need to be a physician to have access to the full scope of practice. think of med school as 50 weeks more than pa school plus a period of paid on the job training, because that is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmood Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 "Doctor qualities in me in how I carry myself"? Yep. Go to med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted July 22, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2015 Med school, no question Women frequently have children during residency- I saw it happen in my wife's residency many times. With you being a male resident, it's entirely doable getting married and having kids while you're training. If you want to be the lead dog, go to med school. I assume these are the "doctor qualities" that others see in you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amesch1 Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 I maybe should have elaborated more on what the doctors see in me. I've heard from them that they see how detail oriented I am and my thirst for knowledge on all things medical. I've shadowed both doctors and PAs and not every doctor has gone out of their way to tell me anything about it, so when I had some do, I did pay attention to that in choosing which path to consider. I don't necessarily have to be the "CEO" per say, but once I know what I am doing and feel very confident in my work, I don't want someone else nitpicking everything I do. I can be a number two or even three, but with that contingency of course. I don't have to choose today, but since I would lack the MCAT if I went the MD route, in December, I really need to decide which way I am going. I know for sure that I want to be in medicine, this I am certain. Choosing how to be in medicine though is turning out to be a tougher choice than I had anticipated. I like aspects of both PAs and of MDs and there are also negatives of both PAs and MDs. I also plan on working in Oncology either route I choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator True Anomaly Posted July 22, 2015 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2015 I maybe should have elaborated more on what the doctors see in me. I've heard from them that they see how detail oriented I am and my thirst for knowledge on all things medical. I've shadowed both doctors and PAs and not every doctor has gone out of their way to tell me anything about it, so when I had some do, I did pay attention to that in choosing which path to consider. I don't necessarily have to be the "CEO" per say, but once I know what I am doing and feel very confident in my work, I don't want someone else nitpicking everything I do. I can be a number two or even three, but with that contingency of course. I don't have to choose today, but since I would lack the MCAT if I went the MD route, in December, I really need to decide which way I am going. I know for sure that I want to be in medicine, this I am certain. Choosing how to be in medicine though is turning out to be a tougher choice than I had anticipated. I like aspects of both PAs and of MDs and there are also negatives of both PAs and MDs. I also plan on working in Oncology either route I choose. It's getting harder and harder to carve your niche in a specialty that even if you're a PA with a lot of experience and respect, you're still going to be "nitpicked" by your supervising docs or other physicians. You'll be "nitpicked" by other entities even if you become a physician, but by being a physician you're much less likely to have another physician micromanaging your patient care. You say you don't necessarily have to be a CEO, but your next immediate statement suggests that you actually DO want to be the CEO in the decision making. Nothing wrong with that- we have a pathway for that very thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Either route you have to decide if you want to be an employee or a solo provider. Corporate medicine sucks - I work for a giant mammoth Catholic hospital organization and I am a peon, worker bee. Good benefits but ultimately too many chiefs and not enough smart workers. So, PA or MD - decide if you want to be part of a large group that is managed by non-med CEO types or if you have the hutszpa to own your own practice and guide your own destiny. Becoming an MD or PA is not the same as when I graduated many years ago. EHRs, managed care, asinine insurance companies and policies will drive your work more than your brain - be prepared and go in with eyes open. It is not all Patch Adams or Marcus Welby, MD. You WILL be managed by someone and becoming a medical provider in now way implies that you know how to run a business. Know your limits and your talents - hire the right people or work for them. Also, prepare for the over $200K debt of MD and 3-5 years of residency followed by fellowship and the potential to move based on your match. PA - less debt, no less intense or "the full distance". PA is a career in itself and not a stepping stone or halfway - it IS medicine - do not ever think it is less. So, hope your decision works out well for you. 25 yr PA been there, done that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amesch1 Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Thank you everyone for the responses! I really appreciate thought out statements from people who have actually been there and not just someone throwing in their thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlj25950 Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Doctors are in more debt, have more stress, are more liable, and hate their profession more than PAs. My hubby is an ortho surgeon, and we've been married since undergrad. I had wanted to go to med school too, once upon a time, and there is no way I'd do it now. It's not worth it. I'm a PA student now, and am ecstatic that there is no residency in my future. As someone who has lived through that, it's beyond anything you can imagine in difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious_Ignoramus Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 OP, take the advice of students with a grain of salt. We all know what it's like to be optimistic as a student and have that hard reality check when we leave academia and enter into the real world, where often the mantra is "ok, now forget everything you think you know, this is how it really works." In short, I think it's bogus that a doctor is pretentious enough to push you toward medical school on the basis of "seeing something in you." Or perhaps you should know better than to assume you have what it takes to survive the pre-med meat grinder just because someone said something to you. What health care experience do you have? If you don't really have any, then how in the world do you know this is for you? Being a patient is no substitute for actual, hands on, paid experience. I love keeping up with bike races like the DK200, but an interest, and even having a number of long rides under my belt, in no way indicates that I would even enjoy participating in it. There are those of us here who think they know something about the med school admin process, and then those of us who have actually been through all or part of the process. I guarantee you that getting into medical school is the most difficult path you will have ever taken in your life. Then there's four years (well, more like three) of beat down after beat down, USMLE, matching, residency games, board cert, and then one day down the road, 10 years or so away, you will be seen as a worthy, competent doctor...or something like that anyways. Nobody here can tell you which direction to take, bottom line. There are those who will champion for either side; those who will erroneously tell you that you need to go to med school since you're young; those who had former med students in their PA graduating class; those who went to med school after being a PA for x years; you can certainly find an opinion to affirm what you may already know you want to do. There are both docs and PAs who hate their jobs. Admin burdens are rising for everyone. Yes docs have more debt, they also make a hell of a lot more than we do. A $1600/month loan payment isn't that hard to make when you live within your means at a salary of $150-200k/yr. The financial arguments can be skewed to favor either profession. PAs don't necessarily need to do residencies but a number of wise PAs here are of the opinion that the PA market is crowded and residency is one of the few things you can do to set yourself apart from the growing crowd. Average pay is good, but some populous states like NY don't pay as much as you'd think, considering cost of living. Also consider that you will shoulder much of a doctor's burden (while many of them trade stocks at their work station and flirt with nurses) while receiving - at the top end of the scale - half of what your doc does (pc/er docs, that is). Spend some time on the professional PA subforum and see what current PAs think about their profession and get a feel for what you are up against. You can do the same on SDN (that is if you can see past all the vitriol from burned out premeds who think they know everything). If you really are set on this, you can always start down the pre-med path and change directions along the way...many here have done that. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amesch1 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Glorious_Ignoramus that was great! I don't have to decide one way or the other yet and the schools I'd be applying to both medical and PA have basically the same pre-reqs. I would have to take the MCAT next year, however, so by December, I will need to say which way to go. I'm talking to an oncology PA today to get the last bit of information I feel like I lack in making my decision. So until December, I'll be taking classes, working as a nurse assistant, and mulling over my decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious_Ignoramus Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 That sounds like a good course of action. You're giving yourself time, gaining HCE, and taking classes that satisfy pre-reqs for both paths. I myself changed my mind about med school right before I sat for the MCAT, so it sounds like you're in the same boat as I was in many respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlumsden Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I maybe should have elaborated more on what the doctors see in me. I've heard from them that they see how detail oriented I am and my thirst for knowledge on all things medical. I know you aren't trying to offend, but I would submit to you that PAs are also detail oriented and have thirst for knowledge on all things medical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAAdmission Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I have had two doctors encourage me to pursue med school because they say they see potential and doctor qualities in me in how I carry myself. Be careful. "Doctor qualities" might be code words for "a-hole." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amesch1 Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Be careful. "Doctor qualities" might be code words for "a-hole." That it could. But, this was geared more towards my organizational skills and the way I approached shadowing. I took notes so that I could look up different diseases and terminology that I came across. Many of the people that I've seen shadowing are just there to wander around with the the doctor or PA not taking notes or anything. I'm actually a pretty likable person, however biased that may sound. My decision was more on the fence because I was worried about getting bored or dissatisfied when I feel like I've reached a max height of what I could reach. But, the more I weigh my decision the more at peace I feel with choosing PA over MD. There are aspects to both routes that I like and that I dislike, but at the end of the day I have to accept my decision when it is all said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGoLong Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Your "doctor qualities" are what we see in good PA shadows as well. I think everyone who practices has to be detail-oriented or people can die. It's been said that we all arrive in the world with "sealed orders" and have to work to see what we are supposed to be doing with our lives. Well-meaning people will tell us what they think should be important to us, but I don't think we really get our sea-legs for the journey until we decide on our own what is actually important. What will give us the satisfaction we want. What we would like our kids and friends to say about us after we're gone. It's all in your lap. Do your due diligence as far as research goes. Take the next few months to not obsess about the decision facing you and instead decide what's important to you (and your future wife). If you make decisions with that perspective -- and blot out what everyone else tells you -- then you should be fine. And at the very least, the person facing the consequences is making the decisions. We are all captains of our own souls, after all. And if you start down what turns out to to be the wrong path, it's surprisingly easy to change course at almost any age. Been there, done that. Best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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