PA after PhD

[tokidoki]

I've been lurking for a bit, looking for people in similar situations, but finally I decided it would be easiest to just post my thoughts directly. 

 

I am currently in my second-to-last year in a PhD program in computational biology. My work is highly theoretical and I currently do not have any clinical experience whatsoever. So I am coming from a place where I know I have to pretty much start from scratch if I go the PA route, and am trying to gather as much information as possible before committing to anything. I am smart and a fast learner though. I have only told a few people about my thoughts, because I am worried they would not approve of such a drastic career change; maybe they would think my education at a prestigious tech school and then PhD program would have been for nothing. So I would welcome the thoughts, especially of current PA's, on how plausible it would be for me to break into the field. 

 

So here are my motivations: I have come to the realization that I do not enjoy research at all, and long for something more hands-on, and something that helps people more immediately. My thoughts keep coming back to medicine. However, I don't want to go to medical school because of the huge financial and time investment it entails. I am eager to join the workforce after so much school, so the relatively shorter school requirements for PA are appealing to me. Of course, I would have to spend some time gaining experience first to get into PA school in the first place, so either way it is a time commitment, and I understand that. That's why I want to be absolutely sure that this is the right path for me. Also, I like the idea of working under a physician, who could give me guidance and I wouldn't have to shoulder all the responsibility on my own. I really like the idea of lateral mobility that one of my PA friends told me they have. I really like the idea of working directly with patients, and the fact that I would not be just doing one thing all day long, and especially not having to sit at a desk for 8 hours a day. 

 

So. Am I completely crazy for considering such a drastic career change and starting over? Are there things I can do to learn more about being a PA and whether I should go back to school after getting my PhD? Any thoughts appreciated, thanks!

[KMD16]

Have you thought about considering US MD or off-shore MD program where you could teach, earn money while pursuing an MD degree all at the same time? Just a thought. Forget about the lateral mobility your friends talked about. With a PhD and then been called called and treated as an assistant (PA). You will be disappointed! Just my 2c.

[Glorious_Ignoramus]

 I see a trend in your thoughts:

 

1) It took you nearly a PhD to realize that you do not really enjoy doing research

 

2) You have no healthcare experience to speak of

 

So...what leads you to believe you would like being a PA?  How do you know you wouldn't just be repeating the same mistake?  It would be possible for you to get into PA school with only a little, obligatory HCE, but then you could very well end up in the exact same spot you are at right now...almost with a PA master's degree and on a forum for another occupation stating that you decided you don't really like treating patients that much.

 

The only way to truly know you want this is to get some experience.  Just like the only way to truly know you would enjoy research is to do a summer internship during undergrad or as a paid research assistant.  Although, maybe you did that, and I am being pretentious.  Get some experience treating patients under your belt before you make any decisions!

 

Offshore med schools, even the reputable schools, have poorer USMLE pass rates than stateside schools.  A few are just now allowed to hand out federal grants, but not the same med loans that stateside schools are allocated.  What about clinical research?  Why not jump ship into another PhD program which puts you in a clinic? 

[EMEDPA]

do you enjoy teaching? with your PhD you could likely teach biology or other topics in the life sciences at the college level.

[PACdan]

One of my professors has his Biology PhD. Got his PA degree after 15 years of teaching/research and is actively practicing. Definitely can be done, and the man knows his stuff.

 

I would absolutely finish your degree and utilize it for at least a few years. See how you like it. In that time you can shadow some PAs and maybe join your local volunteer rescue squad or something. If becoming a PA remains an attractive goal, your degree and a few years work experience will make you an attractive applicant.

[NuttyPhd]

I am in the same boat, just a few years ahead of you. I finished my PhD in Molecular Biology in 2013 with four publications in the field of mass spectrometry and proteomics. I landed a prestigious postdoc even before I started writing my thesis. After a year of misery, I left. I loathe academic research for many of the same reasons that I suspect you have as well. You are not crazy, like many PhDs despite the hours you may have spent doing undergraduate research, or as a technician before grad school, it's not the same as a PhD. The pressure and expectations about a project that is, let’s face it, not within your overall control is daunting.

Here is my two cents:

1) If you currently don't like doing research, please do not kid yourself into thinking it will get better as a postdoc, it only gets worse. You will spend half your time writing grants and the other half trying to figure out how to carve out your own little niche of research that doesn’t belong to your PI.

 

2) Everyone will tell you to just go and teach: This is a joke, for every adjunct position there are 500 applicants. If you really want to teach, start networking now, take classes do whatever you need to get serious teaching experience on your resume.

 

3) Shadow a PA and make certain you really want to work with patients.

 

4) Get certified in something, Nurses Aid, Phlebotomy, Pharmacy Tech, EKG or EMT.

 

5) Start networking now and leverage your computational skills to get into a clinical research lab, at least it's a start.

 

6) Research, research and research PA programs! You will likely need to take a few additional classes and get some clinical experience.

 

7) Make certain this is what you want to do, don’t burn bridges and keep all of your options open. Investigate all of your alternatives including working in industry. Talk to your sales reps and technical sales support reps they are extremely knowledgeable and are a great networking resource.

 

BTW: You are in the “Holly crap what have I gotten myself into” years of your PhD and it is normal to want a way out.

Good Luck.

[Glorious_Ignoramus]

Hold on a second...this is how I understand Nutty's advice:

 

1 - Research is dumb, and it just gets worse.

 a - you spend too much time writing grants

 b - you live in the shadow of your PI

 

How do you not know this going into a PhD program??  No offense meant, but what in world were either of you thinking before you began such a long and arduous journey?  This right here demonstrates to me that neither of you really understand what you are getting into with respect to treating patients, which is nothing like what you see from the outside.

 

2 - There are many more applicants for professorships than there are seats.

 

It is the same with PA school.  Lots of applicants, relatively few seats.  Every medical profession is this way; the shorter/easier the schooling, the more saturated the job market becomes with fresh grads.

 

The rest seems like solid advice, I am just a bit unconvinced that one who obtained a PhD before deciding it really wasn't for him/her really understands what he/she wants to do in life.  Before looking any further, the very first thing you should do is start a long term conversation with someone very close to you, who can help guide you to a realization of what it is you really desire as an occupation.

[tokidoki]

Thank you for your thoughts. The reason I joined this forum and posted in here was go gather information about the PA profession and try to form a picture of whether and how my background could fit into it. Since I posted a few months ago I have also gathered information in other ways: shadowed a PA, began volunteering at a hospital, and talking to a health profession advisor at my school. I have also been considering medical school despite the enormous commitments, but PA seems to fit my ideal type of career better.

 

I am at least two years from possibly starting PA school (I have to finish my PhD and then take some prerequisites and get some HCE for probably a year). So no one get their panties in a bunch because I may not know what I'm getting into yet! Yes, I need to keep gathering information and getting experience; I guess the purpose of my original post was to get an idea of whether my current reasons for considering being a PA are realistic. To summarize, they were: 

 

1) working with patients

2) learning a lot about medicine

3) lateral mobility

4) work-life balance (compared to doctors)

5) good pay

6) relatively (compared to med school) short and less expensive training

7) don't particularly care about being in charge; more interested in patient care itself

 

Are those good reasons for exploring this career path? 

[EMEDPA]

#3 and #4 are not. lateral mobility is getting harder every year and will likely go away entirely within the next 20 years as more pas specialize and fewer do primary care. credentialling bodies require proof of competence before being allowed a new scope of practice. switching within related fields is easy. switching unrelated fields is almost impossible without taking a 50% pay cut and doing only scut work in the new specialty.

most pas I know work MORE hours than most docs out of residency. why do you think docs hire pas? they hire them to do the work they don't want to do at the times and places they don't want to do it. most pas work lots of nights, take call, cover weekends/holidays/early am rounds etc. The M-F 9-5 job is out there somewhere, but it is the exceptuion, not the rule. in my group a typical pa works 180 hrs and a typical doc works 120 hrs/mo. we work 12 hr shifts, they work 8. we work 14-18 shifts, they work 12-14. we make 125k, they make 375k.

[Joelseff]

#3 and #4 are not. lateral mobility is getting harder every year and will likely go away entirely within the next 20 years as more pas specialize and fewer do primary care. credentialling bodies require proof of competence before being allowed a new scope of practice. switching within related fields is easy. switching unrelated fields is almost impossible without taking a 50% pay cut and doing only scut work in the new specialty.

most pas I know work MORE hours than most docs out of residency. why do you think docs hire pas? they hire them to do the work they don't want to do at the times and places they don't want to do it. most pas work lots of nights, take call, cover weekends/holidays/early am rounds etc. The M-F 9-5 job is out there somewhere, but it is the exceptuion, not the rule. in my group a typical pa works 180 hrs and a typical doc works 120 hrs/mo. we work 12 hr shifts, they work 8. we work 14-18 shifts, they work 12-14. we make 125k, they make 375k.

So true about the comparison with Docs. I work 8, 10 and 12 hr shifts and 4-6 days per week. I see pts q15. The Docs I work with, NONE! I mean NONE of them work 5 days. At most 4, most if them work 3 days/week and they are 8 hr shifts at the most while most get off at 2. They see pts q20 and 45 for new pts. They also make twice as much as me with this schedule.

 

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