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Hey guys, so a while ago I posted a thread about undergrad grades and getting into PA school which I am obviously aware is very competetive. I recently got a copy of my transcript and my final GPA was a mediocre 2.42 mainly due to one very bad Junior year (Not going to go into detail as to why but the other three years are pretty normal.) My major GPA was closer to a 3 and I never took any science or PA pre req courses which I suppose is the good news.

 

Obviously the past is done and I can't change that and I do plan on taking classes and getting A's but I feel like even that won't make me competetive. If I became an EMT for a year or two and got some good HCE while also shadowing a doc or PA would that be sufficient? I have volunteer experience but nothing paid, I do speak several languages and have traveled a lot and plan on applying when I'm closer to 30 (They like more mature candidates I'm guessing.)

 

Another thought was to try and get into a BSN program and then NP or PA but that would be a long (but probably rewarding) road.

 

What do you think? I'm sure I want to go into healthcare and am confident I can make up for slacking off in undergrad but just want to know more experienced people think is the best way.

 

Thank you for your help!

 I have volunteer experience but nothing paid

Is this how you found out that you are "sure" you want to go into healthcare? Also, you mentioned a BSN so why not nursing instead of PA and not just as a means to get there? Beefing up your application will take some time and I don't think the BSN --> NP road would be that much longer. You should look into both and decide what's the best fit for you and prepare for it.

 

That being said, you definitely can improve your application if you are sure you want to become a PA. If your other three years were 'pretty normal' I don't see why that one year should hold you back (TIP: consider addressing that in your personal statement).

 

But as you probably know, you need to bring up your overall GPA to at least a 3.0 to be competitive for most programs. 

 

So yeah, your plan seems like a good start. But you need to both, bring up your GPA and get more experience.

  • Shadow PAs
  • Take pre-reqs and ace them
  • Take other courses to boost up your overall GPA
  • Rack up some quality HCE 
  • Consider getting involved in some community service activities

Since you don't have science courses it might be worth taking a look at post-bacc programs.

 

Also, your age at the time of application really doesn't hold much weight. Age has nothing to do with it, I have seen programs with accepted students as young as 21 up to people in their 50's.

 

Good luck! 

Hey guys, so a while ago I posted a thread about undergrad grades and getting into PA school which I am obviously aware is very competetive. I recently got a copy of my transcript and my final GPA was a mediocre 2.42 mainly due to one very bad Junior year (Not going to go into detail as to why but the other three years are pretty normal.) My major GPA was closer to a 3 and I never took any science or PA pre req courses which I suppose is the good news.

 

It's pretty hard to pull a GPA of 2.42 to 3.0. I recently took 14 credit hours to pull 3.3 to 3.4, although it also depends on how many classes you have taken so far because it is an average, but regardless, it's pretty tough and will take a long time. Some schools will take a sub 3.0 GPA,  and some look at the last 60 or so credits, but most are pretty straight forward with a 3.0 average, they won't look at anything below it. You might want to consider a graduate program, if you do well, you can make the case they you've matured and capable of succeeding on the graduate level. I don't know what your time/resources are, but I feel this is the best path for getting interviews. 

 

A friend of mine went back to a BSN program after getting a BS in public health to become an NP or Midwife specialist and it will still take her about 2 years to finish. Each path is long, so think hard about what you want. 

 

Good luck.

I do have the time and resources to do that, or at least take a year or so of graduate classes and not work so I'm lucky in that sense.

 

I realize It's going to be hard to pull those grades up, but I do really like science and the like so a year or two of successful classes could hopefully at least make my GPA competetive.

 

I have also heard of programs accepting students in the 2.5-2.7 range as a bare minimum, I would obviously shoot for higher than that but it's nice to know they're out there.

 

And yes T pac I know I want to go into healthcare but I haven't decided yet if it will be nursing or PA, both seem like great career paths and I know I am capable of either.

 

Thanks for the replies!

Since it probably would be extremely hard (or impossible) to pull a 2.42 up to a 3 in just 2 years, are BSN programs generally more forgiving of low undergrad performance or weight sciences higher? Are they less competetive in general? I have seen a few PA programs that say "overall gpa of 3.0 recommended."

 

Thanks!

Guest MedLib42

 

I have also heard of programs accepting students in the 2.5-2.7 range as a bare minimum, I would obviously shoot for higher than that but it's nice to know they're out there.

 

They are, but it's less common. The majority of PA programs require a 3.0 minimum, which means they will throw out any app that comes in below 3.0 (even if it's a 2.99). I think Miami Dade, Sophie Davis, and University of Detroit Mercy have a 2.5 minimum GPA (there may be more), and there are a few other schools out there that have a 2.75 minimum. So if you're going to apply with anything lower than a 3.0, make sure you're applying to a school with a lower minimum. And if you are just barely meeting minimum GPA requirements, that means your letters of recommendation, healthcare experience, shadowing, and volunteer experience are going to have to not just meet minimums but be pretty stellar, so you'll need to put a bit of time into developing your application that way.

 

It would take another 72 credits, with an "A" average in all of them, to bring a 2.4 up to a 3.0. It would take 12 credits to bring it up to 2.5, and 35 credits to bring it up to 2.75. In my opinion, if PA school is what you want, it's totally doable - I got an entire second Bachelors degree to make up for past GPA performance and get into PA school. 

 

However, in the time it takes you to bring your GPA up to 3.0, you could have completed (or be close to completing) your RN by then, and be closer to starting an NP program. Nursing programs are competitive, yes, but many have lower GPA minimums at 2.0 or 2.5 (although it really depends on the program). I'm not advocating one over the other - nursing wasn't the right fit for me, so I spent the extra time to get my grades up and apply to PA school. 

 

But if I were in your position, I'd start by shadowing before I made my decision. Shadow several PAs, NPs, and even a couple RNs. That should help you figure out which profession is the right fit in the long run before you invest a ton of time and money into one path or the other.

It would take another 72 credits, with an "A" average in all of them, to bring a 2.4 up to a 3.0. It would take 12 credits to bring it up to 2.5, and 35 credits to bring it up to 2.75. In my opinion, if PA school is what you want, it's totally doable - I got an entire second Bachelors degree to make up for past GPA performance and get into PA school. 

Basically, thats what you would need to do John, go back another 3 or 4 years of undergraduate to raise your GPA to acceptable for most PA schools, and you would have to ace most of these classes. 

 

A BSN program is another bachelors, it will be much easier to get into. You can also become a RN with an associates degree for two years. But shadow, shadow, shadow; you want to be sure from this point on.

I had a 2.8 cumulative GPA by the end of my sophomore year. It took me 3 years, but I pulled it up to a 3.44. My poor academic performance from freshman and sophomore year were overlooked by my last 3 years of an up trending GPA. Most of what I was going to say has already been mentioned. Raise your GPA, get some health care experience (even if it's just a nurse assistant), get involved in community service and volunteer, shadow PAs, get a LOR from one of them, write a convincing personal statement, and just keep up the motivation. It's definitely possible, but it's going to take a lot of hard work. Trust me, i've been there!

Hey guys, so a while ago I posted a thread about undergrad grades and getting into PA school which I am obviously aware is very competetive. I recently got a copy of my transcript and my final GPA was a mediocre 2.42 mainly due to one very bad Junior year (Not going to go into detail as to why but the other three years are pretty normal.) My major GPA was closer to a 3 and I never took any science or PA pre req courses which I suppose is the good news.

It's your business if you don't want to go into detail on your junior year problems but you will have to do it at interview time. Problems in your freshman or sophomore year are easier to explain away than junior year. Things like the death of a parent or a severe illness can explain a lot but since you are unwilling to share the reason I have to wonder if it wasn't something of your own doing and you don't want to receive criticism. You need to think about how you will explain that year at an interview and I promise you, you won't be able to hand wave it into non-existence.

IF you get an interview, you will get about 3 minutes to explain your junior year and convince the interviewer that you deserve consideration.

 

As an aside, it always strikes me as curious that so many PA wannabes don't internalize the simple fact that they are competing with a LOT of candidates with GPAs of 3.5 or better, great health care experience, a really convincing story about their passion to become a PA, solid volunteer experience, really good LORs, NO DUIs or drug offenses, etc. I admire those willing to go through the PA school admissions gauntlet and wish everyone success in their careers but you need to step back and ask yourself if this is the right career for you and, if so, how will you get from here to there.

 

Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX using Tapatalk 2

 

 

It's your business if you don't want to go into detail on your junior year problems but you will have to do it at interview time. Problems in your freshman or sophomore year are easier to explain away than junior year. Things like the death of a parent or a severe illness can explain a lot but since you are unwilling to share the reason I have to wonder if it wasn't something of your own doing and you don't want to receive criticism. You need to think about how you will explain that year at an interview and I promise you, you won't be able to hand wave it into non-existence.

IF you get an interview, you will get about 3 minutes to explain your junior year and convince the interviewer that you deserve consideration.

 

As an aside, it always strikes me as curious that so many PA wannabes don't internalize the simple fact that they are competing with a LOT of candidates with GPAs of 3.5 or better, great health care experience, a really convincing story about their passion to become a PA, solid volunteer experience, really good LORs, NO DUIs or drug offenses, etc. I admire those willing to go through the PA school admissions gauntlet and wish everyone success in their careers but you need to step back and ask yourself if this is the right career for you and, if so, how will you get from here to there.

 

Sent from my Kindle Fire HDX using Tapatalk 2

 

The reason was mainly due to severe depression and medication (which some people don't even recognize as an illness). Part of me feels like I should avoid talking about it (although you're right I would probably have to) because 'mental illness' might scare people away when in reality I'm at a much better point in life now.

 

There are a few programs I've looked at that say '3.0 recommended'

 

I'm guessing that means that they can forgive an overall of under that and focus more on the sciences? 3 years is a long time but I do understand that that's what it will take and I'm okay with that. I do think nursing would be a good fit for me as well though... you say the programs are less competetive, why is that?

 

Everyones replies have all been very helpful so thanks for that!

Guest MedLib42

 I do think nursing would be a good fit for me as well though... you say the programs are less competetive, why is that?

 

First of all, there's a significantly larger number of nursing programs in the U.S. relative to the number of nursing applicants than PA programs; this equals a lower number of people you have to compete against to get a seat in a nursing program. There are exceptions to this - there are some states where there are fewer nursing programs and more applicants, so those areas can tend to get pretty competitive. But on the whole, the program to applicant ratio is more favorable in the nursing profession. 

 

You also have a better range of schools to choose from if you're a less than ideal applicant. If you're willing to go anywhere, or you live in a state with a large number of programs, you should be able to find plenty of nursing schools whose minimum GPA requirements are anywhere from 2.0 to 2.5, and who will be more forgiving with regard to past performance. Granted, there are also plenty of nursing programs that are very competitive with minimum requirements at or above 3.0, but those schools aren't your only options. For example, Denver school of nursing and Auburn U take a 2.0, Remington in FL takes a 2.5, Oklahoma City University requires a 2.0 and has almost a 100% acceptance rate of students who meet their minimum requirements (and actually has a decent program). There are many more like this, depending on where you live or where you're willing to go. Most nursing schools also don't require interviews, and you don't have to worry about accruing competitive HCE.

 

The National League of Nursing's report in 2012 stated that on average, most BSN and ADN nursing programs accepted around 40% of all applicants, 50% of all applicants who actually met all of their criteria. PA program acceptance rates are typically under 10%.

 

Not to discourage you - if PA school is the right path, I still say go for it; the time and energy you put into getting accepted will be worth it if it will be the best fit for you. But as I said before, if you're not sure, shadow them both, then make a decision. It's really almost impossible to decide between the two without having at least some occupational exposure to these professions (which is why shadowing is a requirement for so many PA schools).

It's your business if you don't want to go into detail on your junior year problems but you will have to do it at interview time. 

You need to think about how you will explain that year at an interview and I promise you, you won't be able to hand wave it into non-existence. IF you get an interview, you will get about 3 minutes to explain your junior year and convince the interviewer that you deserve consideration.

 

This is not true. I have a couple red flags on my application, but they were not noted or asked about at a single one of my 5 interviews. Plenty of interviews are conducted by people who haven't even laid eyes on your applications. Other times, they're looking just at your basic stats. The OP might have be asked to explain it, but it might get glossed over, too.

 

I think mentioning depression is a bad idea, even if it is the truth. I would have some other explanation handy if the topic does come up.

  • 3 months later...

This is not true. I have a couple red flags on my application, but they were not noted or asked about at a single one of my 5 interviews. Plenty of interviews are conducted by people who haven't even laid eyes on your applications. Other times, they're looking just at your basic stats. The OP might have be asked to explain it, but it might get glossed over, too.

Will wonders never cease?

 

Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk

 

 

The reason was mainly due to severe depression and medication (which some people don't even recognize as an illness). Part of me feels like I should avoid talking about it (although you're right I would probably have to) because 'mental illness' might scare people away when in reality I'm at a much better point in life now.

 

There are a few programs I've looked at that say '3.0 recommended'

 

I'm guessing that means that they can forgive an overall of under that and focus more on the sciences? 3 years is a long time but I do understand that that's what it will take and I'm okay with that. I do think nursing would be a good fit for me as well though... you say the programs are less competetive, why is that?

 

Everyones replies have all been very helpful so thanks for that!

I didnt copy your OP but I would point out a few things.

That must have been a rather poor junior year to knock a near 3.0 down to below a 2.5.

It also seems that you currently dont have any HCE at all. 

3 years is not a long time and you likely will need more than that to truly be competitive.

You explain that you did not take science or prePA coursework during your undergrad. What exactly did you take and graduate with, with the insight that a selection committee will look at your overall academic picture along with specific classes?

 

I can provide you with my anecdotal experience that got me to a successful PA career.

Summer of 1990 latch on to the idea that I wanted to be a PA. Called multiple programs and can sum up the conversations in one word....no.

Academic background, BA in psychology 1988, gpa 2.75. I didnt have any health issues, I just drank a lot of beer and didnt give a sh7t.

No healthcare experience, period.

Enlisted in Air Force as medic, May 1991-95.

Worked with PAs and physicians everyday in a paid and trained capacity. Got LOR from many of them.

Took over 40+ undergrad credits in PA prereqs plus repeat of classes I got C or below during undergrad years.

In the end, my overall gpa rose to about 3.25 at most despite numerous As and a scattering of Bs.

Fall 1995 applied to 10 PA programs nationwide, no CASPA then.

4 interviews, accepted at 3 programs, started fall of 1996.

So this was 6 years of work, not 3. That time separated me from the bad decisions I made late teens and early 20s into a semblance of a responsible adult that interview committees could acknowledge.

 

As for nursing not being as competitive as PA school, that is an apples to oranges comparison. They are both competitive, just on different aspects. What you need to decide is what you want to do based upon aptitude and future goals.

 

The issue of your mental health is important but there are several things to consider. First your health history is yours and no one else's business...though you will have to answer questions about your mental health when applying for a license to practice. You dont have to give an indepth explanation about your junior year and your mental health but you do have to have some explanation ready that is truthful but that you are comfortable with. You will also require some insight into your potential future mental health. PA school and nursing school is difficult. Working as a PA or a nurse is even more so. There can be numerous times when self doubt is common. Stress can be high. While you are in a good place now, can you maintain that good place when stressed? How will you cope with an anatomy quiz, a paper, multiple lectures, a practical lab and a test in cardiology all occurring in the same week, with the expectation to pass that you will score 80-85%? How will you deal with the stress of seeing 20-30 patients a day or participating is several OR cases daily and then rounding on another half dozen prior to the end of your workday?

 

Good luck.

G Brothers PA-C

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