PACdan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Casually perusing USA Jobs and I came across this startling vacancy: Nurse Practitioner or Physician Assistant Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health Administration Coatesville, PA Vacancy Identification Number (VIN) 1035924 Salary Ranges: Nurse Practitioner: $61,343 to $104,924 Physician Assistant: $41,383 to $95,429 What!? How that incredible pay grade difference is even remotely justified, I do not understand! (if anything, it should be reversed) Most listings, be it PA, NP, or combined have a single possible salary range that applies to both. I don't know what wahoo typed that in, but it seems ludicrous IMHO. There is nothing stated in the job description to justify the differential. https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/359903400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Welcome to the VA system. Pay is based on grades and PAs have generally been deemed one or two grades lower than NPs. I think it is getting better as our profession has been Masters prepared now, but don't know what will happen with the DNP degree. Plus if I'm not mistaken, the issue is being addressed on a federal level by PAs? Does anyone else know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACdan Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Welcome to the VA system. Pay is based on grades and PAs have generally been deemed one or two grades lower than NPs. I think it is getting better as our profession has been Masters prepared now, but don't know what will happen with the DNP degree. Plus if I'm not mistaken, the issue is being addressed on a federal level by PAs? Does anyone else know? I'm learning something new every day. I assumed those single salary ranges applied the same to equally experienced PAs and NPs; I had no idea there was a hidden pay grade differential. Nice to know that my FT PA program, where I can't work, costs $80k+, is 102 master's credits, and accrues me a listed *2240* clinical hours (most students end up near 2,900) puts me, as a new grad, below a NP new grad with ~600 program clinical hours, 55 master's credits, and a lot less debt. :/ Yup, makes perfect sense. The math don't lie. I really hope it is being addressed on the federal level. I'll go lobby on the hill until my program starts, sign me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialMedicine Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 you should lobby against the creation of all these PA programs. that is much more a threat towards your future. However it is not clear how one can influence the surge in programs. Get whatever money you can now ... in 10 years salaries may decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACdan Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 you should lobby against the creation of all these PA programs. that is much more a threat towards your future. However it is not clear how one can influence the surge in programs. Get whatever money you can now ... in 10 years salaries may decrease. They are multiplying at an astounding rate. My state, which only has a handful of programs, already has as many new start-ups applying for accreditation. There will never be a glut of providers though. Every time that prediction has been made, and it has been made many times, it has come to pass as patently false. People always get old, people always get sick. But this is all the more reason to pursue work with the federal government; the last vestige of the true pension, 25 years and out. Plus, once you're in, you can transfer anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68W2PA Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 My VA has a listing for an NP and PA in the ED. Here are the salary ranges: NPSalary: $76,796.00 - $111,329.00 / Per Year PA Salary: $73,265.00 - $113,259.00 / Per Year Notice that the PA has a higher max. Usually, in our area, all PA and NP jobs are GS 12 to 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACdan Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 My VA has a listing for an NP and PA in the ED. Here are the salary ranges: NP Salary: $76,796.00 - $111,329.00 / Per Year PA Salary: $73,265.00 - $113,259.00 / Per Year Still perplexing, yet a much more narrow difference in salaries. (2-3k versus 10-20k) I'm just seaching for a rationale based on evidence for the huge disparity in NP v. PA pay for the Coatesville lisitng. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paula Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 The GS rating system is governmental so if we all become government employees we will be under the same rules. Indian Health Service has same GS levels of pay and NPs generally listed as higher. There are lots of nurses out there that work in the systems, with nursing administration, so that might be a reason why NP salaries higher, plus they are described as independent licensed providers, PAs are not. I would not count on a governmental retirement plan. What the government gives, the government can take away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinntsp Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 There are plenty of threads on this topic that you may want to search for. Lots of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GetMeOuttaThisMess Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Man, I've got to say that they have the most convoluted system for employment applications that I've ever seen. And to think that I felt that the local medical school system was horrific. Case in point, the local hospital has a position that I'm frankly not all that excited about but it's time to get back in the game, or at least so I think. I filled out the USAJobs profile, completed the questionnaire, until I got to the very bottom where it asks for a signature. Can't type in your name, couldn't paste a .pdf signature that I have saved, and even with scanning/attempting to save each page individually (four) with a physical signature applied I still couldn't! Each page except for one exceeds the allowable file size of 4MB! Only other option is to fax, which I don't have access to. I finally just threw my hands up and said to myself that if it's this hard then it must not be meant to be (I still have the jeebies from thinking back to when I was a late teen/early 20's EMT transporting folks into that facility). I guess that it's also a sign when you consider the ability to use light rail and the federal holiday schedule to be the primary highlights of working there. For those interesting, the pay scale for a medicine position was mid-$70's to mid-$90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator EMEDPA Posted March 21, 2014 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2014 as mentioned above, this is very regional. there is a new director of PA services at the va who is making an effort to have all of these antiquated job postings updated so pa and np with the same experience and degree make the same salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACdan Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 as mentioned above, this is very regional. there is a new director of PA services at the va who is making an effort to have all of these antiquated job postings updated so pa and np with the same experience and degree make the same salary. That's good to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACProvider Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 as mentioned above, this is very regional. there is a new director of PA services at the va who is making an effort to have all of these antiquated job postings updated so pa and np with the same experience and degree make the same salary. Agree about regional differences. I saw jobs advertised for VA in Oregon. One job was in Portland with the bottom of the range for the PA being 76K whereas a job in Primary Care in Roseburg had the bottom of the range for the PA being 39K. To make matters worse, some regions will interview but refuse to make a salary offer unless and until they work over your references. The fact is that references don't determine whether you get a lower or higher salary. The references only determine if you get the offer. So, most employers make an offer so you can determine if it is a job you would accept before asking your references to take phone calls. Some VA regions make offers and then go to reference checking. Others want to check your references (four or more) and then make you the 39K offer which you are obviously going to reject. After a while, your references are going to get exhausted taking phone calls on your behalf for jobs you end up turning down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator ventana Posted March 28, 2014 Moderator Share Posted March 28, 2014 Agree about regional differences. I saw jobs advertised for VA in Oregon. One job was in Portland with the bottom of the range for the PA being 76K whereas a job in Primary Care in Roseburg had the bottom of the range for the PA being 39K. To make matters worse, some regions will interview but refuse to make a salary offer unless and until they work over your references. The fact is that references don't determine whether you get a lower or higher salary. The references only determine if you get the offer. So, most employers make an offer so you can determine if it is a job you would accept before asking your references to take phone calls. Some VA regions make offers and then go to reference checking. Others want to check your references (four or more) and then make you the 39K offer which you are obviously going to reject. After a while, your references are going to get exhausted taking phone calls on your behalf for jobs you end up turning down. I tend to not offer my references till after salary has atleast been talked about in general. for this reason..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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