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Ive noticed on Nova Southeastern's website that the PhD degree is held almost more prestigiously than the DHsc. Anybody know why? I did notice that the DHsc has an option to enter the PhD program but the DHsc also does not have a dissertation. Just curious because the online masters and DHsc are tempting offers considering campus visits are not required. .unless you do the dual MHS/DHsc program then I believe 2 campus visits are required. Any input is appreciated

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The PhD involves original research and a dissertation.
The DHSc (which I am in) is an applied doctoral degree requiring internship, practicum, and course requirements. There are 3 required on campus summer institue courses taken over 2 or 3 years( I did 3).
Both are doctoral degrees.
The PhD is focused more strongly on research while the DHSc allows the student to explore their interests a bit(stats,teaching, epidemiology, policy, ethics, etc) and create an applied project that meets their interests.
Both the DHSc and the PhD will allow you to get tenure at a university at the level of full professor or dean. it all depends where your interests lie.

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The PhD involves original research and a dissertation.

The DHSc (which I am in) is an applied doctoral degree requiring internship, practicum, and course requirements.

Both are doctoral degrees.

The PhD is focused more strongly on research while the DHSc allows the student to explore their interests a bit(stats,teaching, epidemiology, policy, ethics, etc) and create an applied project that meets their interests.

Both the DHSc and the PhD will allow you to get tenure at a university at the level of full professor or dean. it all depends where your interests lie.

 

And the DHSc can vary between schools offering it. At ATSU, we did have an original applied research project that we had to complete that was similar to a PhD dissertation, and we took the same number of research credit hours that a PhD does as well.

 

That being said. A DHSc is sometimes referred to as a "PhD lite".. Not sure I agree with that, but I've heard that assertion.

 

As with most things, it matters more what you do with it. I'm moving into a research career with it, but I am probably in the minority. Some are doing really great things.

 

This was written recently about one of my (and Knappy's) fellow graduates: During his studies in the DHSc program, Patrick completed a unique Applied Research Project, Hospital Survey on Patient Safety Culture (HSOPSC): A Cross-cultural target-language instrument translation study. This was an interesting project as the purpose of the study was to produce a validated target-language translation instrument that asks the same questions, with the same intended meanings, as the source instrument HSOPSC. This project was the first study to validate the survey instrument using the recommended target-language process for valid translation methodology. Therefore, the outcomes of this research have the potential to improve the administration and analysis of the survey instrument’s application.

 

In 2008, Dr. Palmieri relocated to Lima, Peru with the desire to improve the quality and safety of health services in that country. Given Patrick's passion for global health and his desire to help

people, he enthusiastically took on the opportunity to work in an international health system. Since arriving in Lima, Patrick has achieved many remarkable “firsts” in Peru. Prior to entering

healthcare, Patrick joined the faculty at the Center for American Education, Universidad San Ignacio de Loyola (USIL). At USIL, he taught the first American (SACS) accredited course in business administration and the first formal undergraduate health and wellness course in Peruvian history. Every semester Patrick teaches at least one course at the Center and donates the money he earns to charity.

 

In the health sector, Patrick helped build the largest vertically integrated healthcare delivery system, brokered a management partnership with Johns Hopkins International, and completed an aggressive accreditation beta project with three healthcare facilities and the Accreditation Association (AAAHC). In June 2012, Patrick’s team achieved the first international healthcare accreditation in Peruvian history. In December 2012 and May 2013, two other facilities repeated the success with the second and third international accreditation. These accreditation successes have stimulated significant reforms in the health care sector.

 

The success of the accreditation project is largely attributed to Patrick’s emphasis and belief in nursing leadership and capacity development, and his advocating for a nursing voice at the corporate leadership table. In addition to his responsibility as the chief for quality, safety, and risk, he took on the role as the interim Chief Nursing Officer for the health system. This was a remarkable achievement that demonstrated the importance of nursing in a formal and structural manner. In addition, Patrick contributes to nursing through training programs, safety culture program development (including the first safety culture survey in Peru), and the establishment of the first non-punitive reporting system.

 

As Peru has a surplus of nurses and capacity development is critical, Patrick was instrumental in developing a partnership with the Colegio de Enfermeros del Peru. This collaborative project trains Peruvian nurses to develop their skills to write and pass the American NCLEX nursing exam. This will allow nurses who pass the NCLEX exam to work in an American hospital for three years and then return to Peru to use the experience and knowledge to contribute to Peru’s healthcare system. The nursing classes are held two hours three nights per week without charge. And, there are English and TOFEL courses offered. Finally, Patrick and several American colleagues are establishing the Peruvian Academy of Nursing to facilitate nursing leadership and research development.

 

Through the Sara and Patrick Palmieri Foundation, Patrick and Sara work to impact “one person at a time” by providing full no interest loans to impoverished girls seeking private university education and financially supporting organizations that provide health services to the people of the Amazon. Also, Patrick serves as the treasure for the American Canadian Association of Peru and a board member for DBPeru. Both of these organizations raise funds to support education programs and healthcare projects that benefit the poor. Notably, Patrick works

in the diplomatic community to organize events to raise money for social responsibility. For example, he helped DBPeru raise more than $20k in an event held at the residence of the Australian Ambassador to Peru and he actively works each year to organize the ACAP Black and White Ball at the residence of the United States Ambassador to Peru.

 

Accomplishments in Peru:

• Helped build the first fully vertically integrated health system in Peru.

• Created and held the first Chief Quality and Safety Officer position in Peru.

• Achieved the first international healthcare facility accreditation.

• Established the first healthcare risk management, quality improvement, and patient safety departments.

• Created the first Chief Nursing Officer position for the health system and elevated the nursing leadership equal to the financial and management areas.

• Created the first Patient Safety Officer position.

• Completed the first patient safety culture study in Peru.

• Completed the first published chronic disease management program study in Peru.

• Implemented the first safety culture policies and procedures with a non-punitive reporting system.

• Taught the first SACS accredited course in the first SACS accredited program (Center for American Education at the Universidad San Ignacio del Peru).

 

Additionally...another classmate was just named by Governor Andrew Cuomo as the Director of the New York State Office of Emergency Management.

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I would be more interested in the program itself. If I was hiring someone for a research position I would want to make sure the DHsc program provided sufficient mentorship and training in research. PhD's are the classic academic/research oriented degree and many have more confidence that those initials will produce a skilled researcher. I would imagine if you are further along in your career and have an established record it means little. But if you are interested in an academic career with a department outside of PA then with a strict DHSc degree unless you did a post doc or can demonstrate a substantial research training it might be a bit more difficult to land that position. Then again when you combine PA credentials and a combination career as clinical/research the situation gets a bit more complicated. I guess you need to have a clear concept of what you want to do first.

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I have no interest in doing research as a full time job. My interest is in global health, overseas mission work, and teaching. ATSU probably does have a stronger dept for research at the DHSc level although now Nova has a PhD program as well for those who wish to focus on research.

Nova has a stronger program for global health. At ATSU the global health option is 3 classes. At Nova it's 7.

The DHSc also qualifies for fellowships at the CDC and with similar federal agencies and is recognized by the state dept, etc when assigning salary scales at the doctorate level.

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The DHSc degree is an "applied" doctorate. To put into perspective the medical doctor degree is an applied doctorate. Those who try and undermine its value are simply old traditionalists. It is a highly evolved advanced "doctorate" and deserves respect like any other doctorate. These include EdD, PharmD, DNP, MD, business, etc., etc., etc.,and PhD. I can and do have the ability to work in any capacity of medicine to include research, education, and practice.

 

Those who think the PhD is the cats meow should get a PhD. But until they've accomplished a DHSc path or worked with a DHSc graduate should not throw stones. IMHO.

 

I have written six books, hosted several tv shows, appeared on most network and cables news programs as an expert, and been a keynote speaker across the globe, for large audiences filled with those with the PhD waiting to hear what I had to say.

 

You go EMEDPA!!!

Edited by knappy
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When you say global health, what exactly does that mean? What activities would you be involved with specifically, to help me understand that niche

http://www.nova.edu/chcs/healthsciences/dhs/index.html

Click on the curriculum overview tab to see what is required for the global health pathway.

specifically we have courses in (among other things) global health policy and issues, epidemiology, comparative international health systems, global health ethics, biostats and research methodology, medical writing, alternative health care practices, etc.

global health includes domestic health issues as well. the pathway is designed to train clinicians, researchers, administrative managers, and directors to work at the highest levels in a domestic or international health or educational setting.

1/2 way through my program I already have several teaching offers as well as an unsolicited request to serve on the board of an international disaster medical team.

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Thanks everyone. As the director of the DHSc program at NSU, I would be happy to take questions directly (PM or email me). We have graduates that have done amazing things (one of the more recent is a Fulbright winner spending an entire funded year in Cambodia developing a bachelor’s level health program that is the first in that country). We have many folks at the CDC, DHHS, FDA, etc. An entire cadre of USPHS officers have ben educated in our program, not only PAs but those in all disciplines, one of whom served with the CDC as the director of the HIV/AIDS program in Nigeria. We have a couple of deans and associate deans as graduates; many, many PA Program directors, and well over 100 graduates who are PA faculty. We have many who have been promoted to associate professor and several promoted to professor, and a number who have gained tenure. Look at any PA journal and you will see authors with the DHSc credential after their name. One of our grads was the first PA uniformed services Flag Officer (general or admiral rank) and another the second PA promoted to captain in the US Navy (equivalent to colonel in the other services and a very difficult rank to reach in the Navy). The DHSc program currently has a 74% retention to graduation rate. That is primarily because of lack of a dissertation........dissertation based programs rarely if ever have completion rates of over 50%. If I had to generalize the outcome of our PA grads, I would say that about 50% were in academia (mostly in PA programs but not always), about 25% in the federal/state governmental arenas, with about 25% in US or international NGOs. All of these roles may include clinical practice, administration, research, and teaching.

 

We have a PhD program currently with three PAs at the dissertation or comp level. The PhD program directors are very specific that this is a research degree geared towards people who envision a full time research career. The degree, which starts with core DHSc courses but progresses to a number of pure research and theoretical research theory courses, is anticipated to take a full seven years for completion. It’s a serious research program for people who want to be serious researchers. It is too early to give retention rates for this program or outcomes; the first students entered almost four years ago and none have graduated yet. PhD programs, even more than DHSc programs, due to the nature of the dissertation and independent research, are much more time consuming. That said, unless one is speaking of traditional research settings, it is way too early to even postulate better or worse outcomes for PhD grads. There are both benefits and sacrifices to taking that much time out of a clinical or academic career path. However, it is very advantageous for our profession to have that choice; it’s been a long time coming.

 

I have nothing but praise for AT Still’s DHSc program as well. We share a number of faculty. We both have several areas of strengths and that provides opportunities for choice. Choice is good!!!

 

Anyway, I welcome personal messages about the program or you can just email me at pkelly@nova.edu. I have time for any PA colleague who is interested.

Edited by rpackelly
typo
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I would encourage anyone interested in the DHSc or PhD program at Nova to contact Dr. Kelly. She is very approachable and open to discussion on the merits of each program.

I have no concerns about the quality of grads from ATSU. It is an excellent program as well and one I also considered. My primary interest is in global health and I felt the emphasis option at Nova was stronger for this than at ATSU. If my focus was different I could just as easily have ended up there. I have friends who have graduated from both programs and gone on to positions of prominence in their fields.

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I would encourage anyone interested in the DHSc or PhD program at Nova to contact Dr. Kelly. She is very approachable and open to discussion on the merits of each program.

I have no concerns about the quality of grads from ATSU. It is an excellent program as well and one I also considered. My primary interest is in global health and I felt the emphasis option at Nova was stronger for this than at ATSU. If my focus was different I could just as easily have ended up there. I have friends who have graduated from both programs and gone on to positions of prominence in their fields.

 

 

Agreed with this. It's too early to say how the Indiana State DHSc program will do, but both Nova and ATSU are outstanding.

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Indiana State does look very interesting; it does not seem to be described as a distance program and the tuition for out of state non distance is $733 per credit hour.

 

I am going to try to find out more and will report when I can. It certainly seems to combine a very solid research component with a mission that would be congruent to PA educators and leaders. If it requires relocation it might be unreachable for most.

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As a former pre-pa and current RN student examining my options for further education, I cannot lie that the DHSc program looks more appealing to me than the DNP curriculum. I wonder what an NP who had a DHSc instead of a DNP would gain/lose as a result? The DNP is unlikely to be required by state boards, an MSN educated NP could go for the DHSc if it was a better fit of interests and career goals. Of course one could hope that the DNP will evolve and become more standardized as time goes by, hopefully for the better.

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With teaching you want a degree which will allow you a tenured position as a associate, assistant, or full professor. I do not think all schools will view the EdD in that light. Nursing schools do not view the DNP in that way, as they will only grant professor status to PhD holding individuals. As EMEDPA has said, the DHSc has gotten people professor status, many of them are deans of health profession colleges and PA programs. Some medical schools and large teaching hospitals and research centers are now saying an "earned research doctorate" is a req. for a position, which would only be a PhD or ScD or equivalent. I could be wrong, but a DHSc tailored to health education or a PhD would serve you better in your goal of teaching.

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As a former pre-pa and current RN student examining my options for further education, I cannot lie that the DHSc program looks more appealing to me than the DNP curriculum. I wonder what an NP who had a DHSc instead of a DNP would gain/lose as a result? The DNP is unlikely to be required by state boards, an MSN educated NP could go for the DHSc if it was a better fit of interests and career goals. Of course one could hope that the DNP will evolve and become more standardized as time goes by, hopefully for the better.

there are several msn/nps in my DHSc class.

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With teaching you want a degree which will allow you a tenured position as a associate, assistant, or full professor. I do not think all schools will view the EdD in that light. Nursing schools do not view the DNP in that way, as they will only grant professor status to PhD holding individuals. As EMEDPA has said, the DHSc has gotten people professor status, many of them are deans of health profession colleges and PA programs. Some medical schools and large teaching hospitals and research centers are now saying an "earned research doctorate" is a req. for a position, which would only be a PhD or ScD or equivalent. I could be wrong, but a DHSc tailored to health education or a PhD would serve you better in your goal of teaching.

 

Academic rank, either Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, or Full Professor is not granted by degree. Just to clarify. It is granted by academic production.

 

Here at my institution, you start at the level of Instructor. This means you have generally more than 3, but no more than 10 publications and that you show promise as an academic provider.

 

The next level is Assistant Professor. This requires more substantial academic contributions. Usually >12 publications (average is probably closer to 20). Acting as a referee or peer reviewer, publishing at least 1-2 articles per year, usually have or have had 1-2 grants, although frequently small grants, and have some teaching experience as well.

 

Next up is Associate Professor. This is now getting serious. Usually >50 publications (average is closer to 70), Sitting on editorial boards, or functioning as an editor for a journal. Frequent speaking engagements, demonstrated leadership in the academic area. Have had multiple grants, usually at least a 2-3 have been larger in size, and one of the criteria here is a national reputation in your area of research. Expected to publish 3-5 articles per year.

 

Finally, you have the coveted Professor (Full).....This is the pinnacle. The top. Here, it requires >100 publications (average is over 120)....Have had multiple grants including multiple large grants, are recognized as one of the senior, expert leaders in your academic area and have an international reputation...Usually publishing >6 articles per year.

 

While your degree helps, there is nothing that would prevent a DNP from becoming a full professor. FWIW, I know 2 PA's that only have MS degrees that are both Associate Professors. Obviously, the better your research education, the more productive you will ultimately be, but as I noted above, while your degree helps you get in the door, it is what you do with it that matters far more than what the initials actually are.

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Sorry benm but you are wrong about the Ed. D. The department of education categorizes it as a "research doctorate" and there are a number of us at my university with this degree, as do I - all associate professors or professors. The DHSc is a newer degree - as a member of our rank and tenure committee, I can tell you that they tend to be a little more suspicious of degrees with which they are unfamiliar. Because the DHSC is not a research degree, it is less, not more likely, to be viewed favorably by universities at this time. Please note that I am not commenting on the quality or rigor of the programs.

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Sorry benm but you are wrong about the Ed. D. The department of education categorizes it as a "research doctorate" and there are a number of us at my university with this degree, as do I - all associate professors or professors. The DHSc is a newer degree - as a member of our rank and tenure committee, I can tell you that they tend to be a little more suspicious of degrees with which they are unfamiliar. Because the DHSC is not a research degree, it is less, not more likely, to be viewed favorably by universities at this time. Please note that I am not commenting on the quality or rigor of the programs.

 

I don't think that you can state that the DHSc "is not a research doctorate". Rather, it is an applied research doctorate.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have to agree with the discussions so far, A.T. Still University and Nova Southeastern University have the two best developed DHSc programs presently available in North American. The curriculum is tailored for health professionals and ensures an inter-professional learning environment. The course work is practical and applicable to life and does not consist of just busy work, but real content that can be used to influence and improve healthcare and health systems.

 

I am the director of the A.T. Still University (ATSU), Doctor of Health Science program and can contest that the majority of our graduates have been able to advance their careers based on this degree. Our concentrations in global health, leadership, and education provide an opportunity to subspecialize which has also been beneficial in securing advanced positions.

 

If interested in more information about the ATSU, DHSc program, I would welcome speaking with you. All the best, Helen

Helen Ewing DHSc, MN, RN

Director, Doctor of Health Sciences Program

Arizona School of Health Sciences

A.T. Still University

Office: (480) 248-8142

E-mail:hewing@atsu.edu

Internet: http://www.atsu.edu

 

A.T. Still University’s Arizona School of Health Sciences offers a Doctor of Health Sciences (DHSc) degree through distance learning with a one-week on-site institute. The Doctor of Health Sciences is a post-professional degree designed for master’s or doctorate prepared health professionals. The program aims to develop and enhance the professional skills needed to provide competent leadership in today’s challenging healthcare systems. The DHSc program provides present health professionals with the knowledge and skills to excel in project management, decision-making, organizational leadership, establishing evidence-based standards, and gaining the competencies to apply research to professional practice.

 

The program consists of 70 credit hours of study, including 64 credit hours completed through distance education and a one-week, six-credit-hour residency held in Arizona. Students have the opportunity to focus on one of three concentration areas which include global health, organizational behavior and leadership, and fundamentals of education. The program also promotes application of research to professional practice through completion of a 25 credit applied research project.

 

Program Highlights

 

  • Accredited university
  • Flexible for busy professionals
  • Competitively priced
  • Tailored for healthcare experts
  • 95% online study from anywhere
  • Focused on interprofessional learning
  • One-week residency for collegial networking
  • Various areas to concentrate learning
  • Achievable in three or four years

 

Opportunity to focus on one of three concentration areas:

 

  • Global Health
  • Leadership & Organizational Behavior
  • Fundamentals of Education

 

Overview

 

  • Designed for masters or doctorate prepared healthcare professionals
  • Prepares graduates for leadership and academic positions
  • Focuses on developing proficiencies in:
    • Leadership, decision making, problem-solving
    • Influencing reform in complex health systems
    • Establishing evidence-based standards
    • Applying research to professional practice

 

Program Outcomes

According to a recent DHSc alumni survey, our graduates agree that the program prepared them for leadership roles in healthcare and academia. Alumni agree that the DHSc program:

 

 

  • Prepared them to critically review literature (100%)
  • Strengthened their skills in applying research (98%)
  • Enhanced their ability to appreciate diverse philosophies (98%)
  • Developed their skills to write more effectively (95%)
  • Equipped them for the future of healthcare (88%)
  • Readied them for leadership roles (85%)

 

Importantly, the majority of our graduates are pleased with their decision to obtain the degree (95%), believe the degree met their goals (90%), and would recommend the degree to others (90%).

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